Dexter wrote: ↑April 8th, 2022, 10:41 pm
The guys aren't robots. Turning your shoulder to protect yourself is instinctive. Fair enough if you think its red. I don't.
What do you mean 'protect himself'? From what? Marmion isn't going to hit him in the head obviously, JGP turns his shoulder into tackle and doesn't wrap.
Flawless is a big word to use there RTB but it’s hard to disagree with. Another brilliant game from Hugo in every respect, almost boring at this stage so not as noticeable.
Actually I remembered one mistake as I was typing
I can’t think of a better fullback in the world right now though.
Dexter wrote: ↑April 8th, 2022, 10:41 pm
The guys aren't robots. Turning your shoulder to protect yourself is instinctive. Fair enough if you think its red. I don't.
What do you mean 'protect himself'? From what? Marmion isn't going to hit him in the head obviously, JGP turns his shoulder into tackle and doesn't wrap.
There's definitely head contact and foul play with no mitigation.
So the reason Dickson didn't give the red card is 'degree of danger'. I think hitting a guy in the nose and causing blood is pretty dangerous.
Instinctively protecting himself from an oncoming physical collision.
I'll repeat again, he was penalised and carded under the laws. You may want him sanctioned more severely but I would disagree.
Friend thinks it was a yellow fwiw according to mk on Twitter.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014 Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
paddyor wrote: ↑April 8th, 2022, 9:37 pm
Can’t hear commentary. Did they check that for high? Like I’m not sure how you can go lower when a guy is diving for the line. Happens multiple times a game.
The TMO called the ref to take a look at it but he decided pretty much what you said
Thanks.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014 Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
wixfjord wrote: ↑April 8th, 2022, 10:44 pm
Can we just get one things clear - whether JGP 'meant to put a big/king hit in' is irrelevant. Intent is irrelevant in the law book.
The onus is on tackler to get it right, if he doesn't, then that's on him.
My limited memory was he was tackled into RPG. I haven’t watched it back. But if he’s kind of tackled before he makes contact I think it reduces culpability. I might be remembering the wrong incident, I went for a smoke at the break in play.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014 Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
wixfjord wrote: ↑April 8th, 2022, 9:05 pm
All of that came from a boxkick out on the full by Luke under little pressure that went into the stand.
.. giving Connacht a line out around halfway; and the cheek of him to read and intercept a Connacht wrap around, and set us up for a period of sustained pressure in the red zone. And double cheek to actually pass, tackle and run well.
You lump in errors by McGrath, JGP, and Ross. Lukes gets a special mention : where do you rate it vs a pen kicked dead, or a yellow/red card?
wixfjord wrote: ↑April 8th, 2022, 10:44 pm
Can we just get one things clear - whether JGP 'meant to put a big/king hit in' is irrelevant. Intent is irrelevant in the law book.
The onus is on tackler to get it right, if he doesn't, then that's on him.
My limited memory was he was tackled into RPG. I haven’t watched it back. But if he’s kind of tackled before he makes contact I think it reduces culpability. I might be remembering the wrong incident, I went for a smoke at the break in play.
He was upright and put his shoulder into Marmion’s face, can’t see how there’s any mitigation myself.
Marmion was tackled into him so it was unexpected. He was high but not looking to lay a king hit. He unplants his feet to depower and let him backwards out of the tackle, which reduces the force.
Intent is irrelevant so we can ignore that bit.
Freeze this at 1.04 or 1.27 and watch Marmion's head bounce back.
The facts are JGP doesn't wrap and hits Marmion square in the nose, enough to cause what looks like a break. Marmion didn't drop significantly and there are not other mitigating factors.
It was a clear red by letter of the law and we were very lucky to escape it.
From the link that you posted…
Show Spoiler:
Considerations
1. Has head contact occurred?
Head contact includes neck and throat area
2. Was there foul play?
Considerations:
Intentional
Reckless
Avoidable
3. What was the degree of danger?
Considerations include:
Direct vs indirect contact
High force vs low force
4. Is there any mitigation?
Considerations include:
Line of sight
Sudden and significant drop or movement
Clear attempt to change height
Level of control
Upright - passive vs dynamic
There needs to be an understanding that tacklers stay up to allow them to ‘adjust and react’ - dropping quickly into the low tackle entry position - using their ‘eyes and feet’ to get their timing right.
It is important that coaches and players continually develop safe tackling techniques in training.
wixfjord wrote: ↑April 8th, 2022, 10:44 pm
Can we just get one things clear - whether JGP 'meant to put a big/king hit in' is irrelevant. Intent is irrelevant in the law book.
The onus is on tackler to get it right, if he doesn't, then that's on him.
My limited memory was he was tackled into RPG. I haven’t watched it back. But if he’s kind of tackled before he makes contact I think it reduces culpability. I might be remembering the wrong incident, I went for a smoke at the break in play.
That’s how I saw it too - I also think one of his own players ‘dropped a knee’ on Marmion in an attempt to protect the ball and that could easily have done significant damage to his nose
#LiveLifeLoveLeinster
#BeSeenBeHeardBeBlueBELIEVE
I'm a Book Mark and damn proud of it. Storm 1:08 forever
Wow.. found that game very frustrating to watch. I thought we were clearly the better team but a combination of making some crucial errors and unpredictable refereeing kept me feeling like anything could happen.
Our back three are really on fire right now. All are such rounded footballers - tough, smart and skillful... It's like having three Isas!. Their work in attack almost doesn't need a mention at this stage, they get so many touches on the ball and make so many positive contributions. But they are all such assets in kick tennis and it made a big difference today. I thought we targeted TOH in this department - he made one massive error kicking back across field which gave us 60 metres (and maybe ultimately a score? I don't remember). I thought he got the shepherd's crook at half time as a result, but it was reported as an injury
ChrisUppy wrote: ↑April 8th, 2022, 11:48 pm
Wow.. found that game very frustrating to watch. I thought we were clearly the better team but a combination of making some crucial errors and unpredictable refereeing kept me feeling like anything could happen.
Our back three are really on fire right now. All are such rounded footballers - tough, smart and skillful... It's like having three Isas!. Their work in attack almost doesn't need a mention at this stage, they get so many touches on the ball and make so many positive contributions. But they are all such assets in kick tennis and it made a big difference today. I thought we targeted TOH in this department - he made one massive error kicking back across field which gave us 60 metres (and maybe ultimately a score? I don't remember). I thought he got the shepherd's crook at half time as a result, but it was reported as an injury
He was upright and put his shoulder into Marmion’s face, can’t see how there’s any mitigation myself.
Marmion was tackled into him so it was unexpected. He was high but not looking to lay a king hit. He unplants his feet to depower and let him backwards out of the tackle, which reduces the force.
Intent is irrelevant so we can ignore that bit.
Freeze this at 1.04 or 1.27 and watch Marmion's head bounce back.
The facts are JGP doesn't wrap and hits Marmion square in the nose, enough to cause what looks like a break. Marmion didn't drop significantly and there are not other mitigating factors.
It was a clear red by letter of the law and we were very lucky to escape it.
Atlas wrote: ↑April 8th, 2022, 10:33 pm
I think JGP tackle was a red card. He turns his right shoulder inwards just before contact. If he didn't do that, then the contact is head to chest and there is no problem.
But he did do that, first contact is shoulder to head with no mitagation so red should have been the decision I would have thought.
It wasn’t a red, barely a yellow. Ref got it right.
ChrisUppy wrote: ↑April 8th, 2022, 11:48 pm
Wow.. found that game very frustrating to watch. I thought we were clearly the better team but a combination of making some crucial errors and unpredictable refereeing kept me feeling like anything could happen.
Same here. I didn't find it that enjoyable as a Leinster supporter. I'm incredibly biased but was disappointed we didn't have a bigger gap on the scoreboard at the end.
Next week is just old fashioned KO now. 5 points is a very small margin.
wixfjord wrote: ↑April 8th, 2022, 10:44 pm
Can we just get one things clear - whether JGP 'meant to put a big/king hit in' is irrelevant. Intent is irrelevant in the law book.
The onus is on tackler to get it right, if he doesn't, then that's on him.
He absolutely got it wrong by being upright. Upright, head contact: red. Then the officials check for mitigation. In this case, they found the fact that Marmion was tackled and falling, and that JGP stopped to soak him (rather than continue forward), to be sufficient mitigation.
I thought it was a clear red until I saw the angle from the touchline and the full speed replays. I could then see how it might not be given. I still expected a ref to give the red, against an away team. And we wouldn’t really complain if he had.
Fair play to Andy Friend for saying it was a yellow. But I wonder was that in the context of the multiple head shots and high tackles from Connacht players. I would guess both sides are looking for a light touch from the citing commissioner.
ChrisUppy wrote: ↑April 8th, 2022, 11:48 pm
Wow.. found that game very frustrating to watch. I thought we were clearly the better team but a combination of making some crucial errors and unpredictable refereeing kept me feeling like anything could happen.
Same here. I didn't find it that enjoyable as a Leinster supporter. I'm incredibly biased but was disappointed we didn't have a bigger gap on the scoreboard at the end.
Next week is just old fashioned KO now. 5 points is a very small margin.
I actually found myself cheering on Connacht to keep the game close when we looked like we were going to run riot in the first half. Makes next week interesting and should help sell more tickets.
