Munster v Leinster URC Sat 2nd 7pm RTE

[wixfjord]

Why would it be a yellow for being in from the side? I think it was just a really unfortunate play where Dunne takes a player out from one side who then lands on Coombes left leg making it trapped, and then Dev comes from 45 degrees and that means Coombes body goes over his own trapped leg.

Nothing dangerous from either player but the combination made it turn out badly. It’s not like either of them came in at 90 degrees or dived at a prone leg etc.

When you watch it back the work rate of Dunne to get back around to his side and make the clear out is phenomenal.

+1
I've watched it a couple of times and no way was Dev at fault. His span is so enormous that he was marginally angular on entry, maybe 70% against a perfect 90%, but the damage was done to Coombes trapped ankle, not his knee. Definitely not malicious and probably not even a penalty infringement.

One could even argue that Archer's clumsy roll into the Leinster side was the reason Dev entered the ruck like he did. However, the key impact was Dunne on Loughman and Coombes which trapped Coombes foot under Ed Byrne and Loughman's body weight was then driven onto Coombes leg. Dev's impact was incidental to the injury.

With the highlights actually making a quality replay available I'd have to agree with this. The poor quality gif used by Munster fans is detrimental to the understanding of what happened and misses key frames which highlight what actually occured.

Lads, whatever about the injury which was unfortunate, it's quite clearly in from the side. That's not even a debate.

[Dave Cahill]

Lads, whatever about the injury which was unfortunate, it's quite clearly in from the side. That's not even a debate.

He was certainly in from the side.

Its one of the key tactics used by Irish sides, get to the ruck quickly and come in from the side before the ref is certain that the ruck has formed. All Irish teams, in particular Leinster and Munster, do it and constantly. So people getting their umbrage on about it is a bit weird

[wixfjord]

Lads, whatever about the injury which was unfortunate, it's quite clearly in from the side. That's not even a debate.

He was certainly in from the side.

Its one of the key tactics used by Irish sides, get to the ruck quickly and come in from the side before the ref is certain that the ruck has formed. All Irish teams, in particular Leinster and Munster, do it and constantly. So people getting their umbrage on about it is a bit weird

I'm not getting umbrage on at all. The stuff about Toner 'targeting' Coombes or it being a cheap shot is just nonsense.

Nobody in their right mind believes Dev meant to injury anyone, but to ignore that it's clearly a penalty offence is just one eyed.

[Dave Cahill]

I'm not getting umbrage on at all

Not suggesting you were at all, sorry if it read that way, but some people seem to have never seen an irish team play rugby!

[FLIP]

Lads, whatever about the injury which was unfortunate, it's quite clearly in from the side. That's not even a debate.

He was certainly in from the side.

Its one of the key tactics used by Irish sides, get to the ruck quickly and come in from the side before the ref is certain that the ruck has formed. All Irish teams, in particular Leinster and Munster, do it and constantly. So people getting their umbrage on about it is a bit weird

I'm not getting umbrage on at all. The stuff about Toner 'targeting' Coombes or it being a cheap shot is just nonsense.

Nobody in their right mind believes Dev meant to injury anyone, but to ignore that it's clearly a penalty offence is just one eyed.

If any penalties should be given it should be for the Munster player rolling into Toner preventing him from accessing the gate properly.

And a single frame image post engagement isn't the proof you think it is, just selective editing.

[LeinsterLeader]

Lads, whatever about the injury which was unfortunate, it's quite clearly in from the side. That's not even a debate.

He was certainly in from the side.

Its one of the key tactics used by Irish sides, get to the ruck quickly and come in from the side before the ref is certain that the ruck has formed. All Irish teams, in particular Leinster and Munster, do it and constantly. So people getting their umbrage on about it is a bit weird

That was exactly my thoughts Dave. To paraphrase the old saying complaining about players coming in from the side (particularly on the defending team) is like complaining to your mother in-law about your wife. I'd say there were probably half a dozen more side entries for each side during the game but no one was hurt so nobody notices. It just isn't a part of the game that's refed with any degree of consistency. For me it was just really unfortunate the way it turned out.

[the spoofer]

Lads, whatever about the injury which was unfortunate, it's quite clearly in from the side. That's not even a debate.

He was certainly in from the side.

Its one of the key tactics used by Irish sides, get to the ruck quickly and come in from the side before the ref is certain that the ruck has formed. All Irish teams, in particular Leinster and Munster, do it and constantly. So people getting their umbrage on about it is a bit weird

I'm not getting umbrage on at all. The stuff about Toner 'targeting' Coombes or it being a cheap shot is just nonsense.

Nobody in their right mind believes Dev meant to injury anyone, but to ignore that it's clearly a penalty offence is just one eyed.

The first penalty offence is the Munster prop rolling north to south which is exactly what the ref penalised.

[ronk]

Lads, whatever about the injury which was unfortunate, it's quite clearly in from the side. That's not even a debate.

He was certainly in from the side.

Its one of the key tactics used by Irish sides, get to the ruck quickly and come in from the side before the ref is certain that the ruck has formed. All Irish teams, in particular Leinster and Munster, do it and constantly. So people getting their umbrage on about it is a bit weird

I'm not getting umbrage on at all. The stuff about Toner 'targeting' Coombes or it being a cheap shot is just nonsense.

Nobody in their right mind believes Dev meant to injury anyone, but to ignore that it's clearly a penalty offence is just one eyed.

It's not foul play. So the ref goes with the first offense, not rolling away. By going for the ball Coombes forces the issue so the ref has to penalize Archer.

It's not much to do with his injury but Coombes shouldn't have contested possession on that ruck. He also should have been pulled immediately, it was really obvious.

[the spoofer]

Lads, whatever about the injury which was unfortunate, it's quite clearly in from the side. That's not even a debate.

He was certainly in from the side.

Its one of the key tactics used by Irish sides, get to the ruck quickly and come in from the side before the ref is certain that the ruck has formed. All Irish teams, in particular Leinster and Munster, do it and constantly. So people getting their umbrage on about it is a bit weird

I still don't think he's in from the side. Byrne is lateral to the end line, the gate is therefore really wide and it appears to me that Dev enters through that very wide gate.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

You could make a mountain out of a molehill for how he entered the breakdown. Technically it’s from the side but it happens all the time and from the footage he makes a textbook effort to present a good picture to the ref by coming in half through the gate. That’s still illegal, but so are most breakdown entries.

The problem with bad in from the sides, which are far more prevalent in France or games reffed by French referees and more lax in the Premiership as well is when someone doesn’t come in through the gate and at 90 degrees. The second big issue is that players have been taught to do those judo style throws which wraps up their bodies above the waist while their legs are trapped. It’s not dirty play but it should be stamped out and the way to do it is make sure everyone in the breakdown has their shoulders above their hips so that there’s a target to clean out.

Dev didn’t enter from 90 degrees and he didn’t do anything dirty in his clean out. It was just unfortunate that Dunne had cleared out from the other side. Had Dunne been lazy and not done that then nobody would ever have noticed Dev’s entry as being an obvious penalty or any kind of dirty play.

I find it really weird that people are zeroing in on this. There’s another prominent Munster fan who talks shite all the time but seems to have gained a reputation as being an authority just by virtue of having a respectable job and being incapable of not posting any thought that comes into his head who was complaining about it too. Far too much noise for a a nothing incident.

[Flash Gordon]

Munster loss has broken TRK's brain, apparently Dev Toner is a dirty player.

I saw people claiming that Devin Toner, a 35-year-old, 18 year pro with 346 senior caps wasn’t trying to take out Coombes here which is adorable, really. This isn’t his first or even his 300th rodeo. You can’t tell me that Devin Toner doesn’t know the consequences of that entry at that moment with Coombes’ planted over the ball. Toner does know, plainly. He’s not a rookie or a moron and if you want to pretend that he is, that’s cool, but I’m done dealing with fantasy. Toner knows exactly where the line is and was willing to “go there” to help Leinster win that ruck because he knows small things lead to big things. Whatever happens to you after the ruck? Well, that’s a you problem.

You might be thinking “well, Loughman is there too isn’t he” and if that’s your first thought, as opposed to the guy making a lateral entry to a ruck directly in front of the ref where he drives all of his weight through onto the standing leg and increases the torque by lifting the other leg, you need to wake up.

Coombes would go off injured soon after and was seen in a moon boot after the game. Toner isn’t going in there thinking “this will break Coombes ankle, just like I planned”. It’s rarely as premeditated as that. He just doesn’t care what happens to him because he’s making that ruck entry from the side so he can stop Munster winning the penalty, he’s targeting the leg because that makes it easier and f%~k you that’s why. Leinster do this in every serious game against Munster and every time they are allowed away with it through, either, the referee’s interpretation or our passivity or both. Every time that happens we get smashed on the field and then on the scoreboard.

That's an absolutely appalling diatribe.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Did TRK, or anyone else having a pop at Dev, also lay into Daly for his neck roll? That was far more dangerous than anything Dev did but thankfully nobody had happened to land on the leg of the Leinster player before he did it.

[OTT]

If Dev was willing to be the dirty bollix he’s being portrayed as he would have made and started on 3 Lions tours and had another 70 Ireland caps. It’s probably the one part of his game that he lacked was the ability to be a horrible pr!*k. It sort of makes you like him even more (if that is possible) that he achieved what he achieved in the game without the need or ability to be filthy.

Talking of filthy pricks, hopefully Archie has a few more years in him, I f%~king love watching him do really ‘sly’ things that give us/every other team they play really handy penalties to relieve pressure/set up attacking platforms. Long live the king of filth!

[Dave Cahill]

If Dirty Dev's egregious assault was as bad as some would have us believe, how come Coombes was able to play on and make the hard carry that led to Munster's third penalty? If his ankle was barely hanging on by a thread after Dev the Impaler had at it, why did the Munster medical staff allow him to continue? He could have died!

[curates_egg]

If you want to see a reckless clean out, look at Herbst's no-arms flying missile from the side on Leavy's prone knee, which has sadly diminished him greatly as a player. Herbst should have had a long ban after that IMO, and should certainly have not have been given an extension with Ulster the next season.

Dev, on the other hand, wraps both his hands around Coombes' torso and lifts. Beyond being a bit diagonal, I can see nothing wrong with Toner's clear out.
It's an unfortunate outcome, and hopefully Coombes will not be out for too long. Thankfully it's only his ankle, and he seemed to be able to run on it afterwards. Unlike what was done to Leavy.

[mildlyinterested]

If you want to see a reckless clean out, look at Herbst's no-arms flying missile from the side on Leavy's prone knee, which has sadly diminished him greatly as a player. Herbst should have had a long ban after that IMO, and should certainly have not have been given an extension with Ulster the next season.

Dev, on the other hand, wraps both his hands around Coombes' torso and lifts. Beyond being a bit diagonal, I can see nothing wrong with Toner's clear out.
It's an unfortunate outcome, and hopefully Coombes will not be out for too long. Thankfully it's only his ankle, and he seemed to be able to run on it afterwards. Unlike what was done to Leavy.

he wasnt given an extension, he was released shortly afterwards.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

If Dirty Dev's egregious assault was as bad as some would have us believe, how come Coombes was able to play on and make the hard carry that led to Munster's third penalty? If his ankle was barely hanging on by a thread after Dev the Impaler had at it, why did the Munster medical staff allow him to continue? He could have died!

I just watched it back and I don’t think Munster even complained. The ref has a chat with POM but it appears to just be about tacklers rolling away and POM doesn’t seem annoyed about anything. The ref then stands over Coombes for ages when he’s getting treatment but Coombes never says anything.

[OTT]

. There’s another prominent Munster fan who talks shite all the time but seems to have gained a reputation as being an authority just by virtue of having a respectable job and being incapable of not posting any thought that comes into his head who was complaining about it too. Far too much noise for a a nothing incident.

I’m just reading your post now and I nearly pissed myself , if it’s the same chap I’m thinking of. He’s a f%~king expert in everything not just Law. I’d say he’s about 50ish but you just know he was there in 78 yeah right!

[LeRouxIsPHat]

. There’s another prominent Munster fan who talks shite all the time but seems to have gained a reputation as being an authority just by virtue of having a respectable job and being incapable of not posting any thought that comes into his head who was complaining about it too. Far too much noise for a a nothing incident.

I’m just reading your post now and I nearly pissed myself , if it’s the same chap I’m thinking of. He’s a f%~king expert in everything not just Law. I’d say he’s about 50ish but you just know he was there in 78 yeah right!

That’s the one, if you’re boring and virtuous enough then people will completely ignore the substance to what you’re saying and assume you’re an authority.

[Dave Cahill]

In fairness, the complaints are originating from the nuttier corners of the Munster support - most are far more concerned with things that actually happened, with the structure of their province, coaching, bringing through younger players etc. You can't judge a support base by the lunatic fringe