I believe that Dayglo may be comparing apples to grapefruits
Isn't that figure for the Leinster branch as a whole, not the professional team?
LD forgets that Marquee and academy players are not included in the salary cap. More like comparing apples and elephants.
I just scanned the salary cap regs. The £5m is a load of cr@p.
£5m basic salary cap
£100,000 academy cap
Two excluded players
£80,000 credit for EPS, home grown players or international players (Max per player)
On an extremely rough basis:
So say take Leinster where we have say 13 internationals, we would have a cap of £5,000,000+£100,000+£1,040,000 =€7.25m excluding say TF & JS.
On top of that the RFU pay match fees of £23,000 per game. That would take a lot of heat off our salary cap if the system was comparable here, say 10 players at €25,000 per game X 8 games a year = €2m. That brings our comparable wage budget to about €10m excluding TF and JS.
Add them in and you are around €11M. That's a far cry from the £5m that LD talks about.
I think you're definitely in the ballpark there, and fair warning I' definitely gonna use "apples to elephants" it has a much better ring to it.
0nly 3000 but they were wedged into the 2 terraces. Its like Leinster putting the 5000 into just the Grandstand.
No logic whatsoever. Lets just pick a random number and apply it
Blue not red blood wrote: ↑January 4th, 2022, 8:15 pm
This 5000 limit is a joke.
How many were squeezed in the terrace in Galway and stand on New Years Day?
Also, I think Thursday is the day when the 5,000 lucky ST holders are to be picked to attend (assuming there are no further number restrictions in the meantime).
Connacht allowed 50% capacity at Galway on the 1st, so apparently just over 3,000. Was season ticket holders and Connacht Christmas Three package holders only, no general sale tickets.
[/quote]
Blue not red blood wrote: ↑January 5th, 2022, 1:48 pm
0nly 3000 but they were wedged into the 2 terraces. Its like Leinster putting the 5000 into just the Grandstand.
No logic whatsoever. Lets just pick a random number and apply it
Blue not red blood wrote: ↑January 4th, 2022, 8:15 pm
This 5000 limit is a joke.
How many were squeezed in the terrace in Galway and stand on New Years Day?
Also, I think Thursday is the day when the 5,000 lucky ST holders are to be picked to attend (assuming there are no further number restrictions in the meantime).
Connacht allowed 50% capacity at Galway on the 1st, so apparently just over 3,000. Was season ticket holders and Connacht Christmas Three package holders only, no general sale tickets.
[/quote]
In fairness, for our match against the Bulls in September the Aviva was limited to 50% capacity so they just didn't put the top tier on sale and packed us all into the bottom tier.
Whenever someone outside of Irish rugby complains about our system in comparison to theirs, there really is only one answer...
"Rugby in <insert country here> has decided upon a system of governance that is best for rugby in <insert country here>. Its your system, you implemented it, if you don't like it, change it. Likewise, rugby in Ireland has implemented a system that is best for rugby in Ireland. Your system is none of our business, and our system is, quite frankly, none of yours"
Dave Cahill wrote: ↑January 5th, 2022, 3:26 pm
Whenever someone outside of Irish rugby complains about our system in comparison to theirs, there really is only one answer...
"Rugby in <insert country here> has decided upon a system of governance that is best for rugby in <insert country here>. Its your system, you implemented it, if you don't like it, change it. Likewise, rugby in Ireland has implemented a system that is best for rugby in Ireland. Your system is none of our business, and our system is, quite frankly, none of yours"
I have had that argument with a number of Welsh people and explained that WRU generate more cash than IRFU but choose to spend it differently. It's a waste of time!
Dave Cahill wrote: ↑January 5th, 2022, 3:26 pm
Whenever someone outside of Irish rugby complains about our system in comparison to theirs, there really is only one answer...
"Rugby in <insert country here> has decided upon a system of governance that is best for rugby in <insert country here>. Its your system, you implemented it, if you don't like it, change it. Likewise, rugby in Ireland has implemented a system that is best for rugby in Ireland. Your system is none of our business, and our system is, quite frankly, none of yours"
Fine for some. But what about for the people who still think killing the HC goose was a good idea.
I believe that Dayglo may be comparing apples to grapefruits
Isn't that figure for the Leinster branch as a whole, not the professional team?
LD forgets that Marquee and academy players are not included in the salary cap. More like comparing apples and elephants.
I just scanned the salary cap regs. The £5m is a load of cr@p.
£5m basic salary cap
£100,000 academy cap
Two excluded players
£80,000 credit for EPS, home grown players or international players (Max per player)
On an extremely rough basis:
So say take Leinster where we have say 13 internationals, we would have a cap of £5,000,000+£100,000+£1,040,000 =€7.25m excluding say TF & JS.
On top of that the RFU pay match fees of £23,000 per game. That would take a lot of heat off our salary cap if the system was comparable here, say 10 players at €25,000 per game X 8 games a year = €2m. That brings our comparable wage budget to about €10m excluding TF and JS.
Add them in and you are around €11M. That's a far cry from the £5m that LD talks about.
It's dropping to 1 marquee. It's comparing apples and oranges but however you want to slice it Leinsters squad would be more comparable to one of the top spending French sides than the average GP team. Professional game costs for the union are €48m which AFAICT covers the national team and the 4 provinces. Up a staggering 6m from €2 years previous. That would include 5 coaching tickets as well which there doesn't seem to be as much info on how much a top coach could expect or a support coach. The EPS players got c£5.5m in match fees and IIRC the Welsh are about €2m.
We're easily at the top end of the scale and he's right they will struggle to compete with the likes of us.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014 Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
Dave Cahill wrote: ↑January 5th, 2022, 3:26 pm
Whenever someone outside of Irish rugby complains about our system in comparison to theirs, there really is only one answer...
"Rugby in <insert country here> has decided upon a system of governance that is best for rugby in <insert country here>. Its your system, you implemented it, if you don't like it, change it. Likewise, rugby in Ireland has implemented a system that is best for rugby in Ireland. Your system is none of our business, and our system is, quite frankly, none of yours"
Fine for some. But what about for the people who still think killing the HC goose was a good idea.
Ultimately, thats up to them. We love the European Cup in Ireland - in reality we're pretty much alone in that. A lot of French and English clubs regard it as more albatross than goose and, to continue the avian theme, its becoming a dead duck. Until an English or French club can earn considerably more from playing a European game than it can from playing a domestic game, thats going to continue to be the case.
Dave Cahill wrote: ↑January 5th, 2022, 3:26 pm
Whenever someone outside of Irish rugby complains about our system in comparison to theirs, there really is only one answer...
"Rugby in <insert country here> has decided upon a system of governance that is best for rugby in <insert country here>. Its your system, you implemented it, if you don't like it, change it. Likewise, rugby in Ireland has implemented a system that is best for rugby in Ireland. Your system is none of our business, and our system is, quite frankly, none of yours"
Fine for some. But what about for the people who still think killing the HC goose was a good idea.
Ultimately, thats up to them. We love the European Cup in Ireland - in reality we're pretty much alone in that. A lot of French and English clubs regard it as more albatross than goose and, to continue the avian theme, its becoming a dead duck. Until an English or French club can earn considerably more from playing a European game than it can from playing a domestic game, thats going to continue to be the case.
Obviously these last couple of European campaigns have been a bit of a damp squib due to the restrictions, but are you sure you're not just talking about the clubs that haven't a hope of winning it? I don't get that vibe at all from the likes of Toulouse, Clermont, Saracens, Leicester etc. The players most certainly don't act like they don't care.
Fine for some. But what about for the people who still think killing the HC goose was a good idea.
Ultimately, thats up to them. We love the European Cup in Ireland - in reality we're pretty much alone in that. A lot of French and English clubs regard it as more albatross than goose and, to continue the avian theme, its becoming a dead duck. Until an English or French club can earn considerably more from playing a European game than it can from playing a domestic game, thats going to continue to be the case.
Obviously these last couple of European campaigns have been a bit of a damp squib due to the restrictions, but are you sure you're not just talking about the clubs that haven't a hope of winning it? I don't get that vibe at all from the likes of Toulouse, Clermont, Saracens, Leicester etc. The players most certainly don't act like they don't care.
Thats a handful of clubs though. I mean they watered down the qualification to 4 matches where you need to win 2 to progress. Then the farcical round of 16 with home and away matches so everyone gets the same no. of home games. SOme hilariously one sided scores in them double headers.
And realisitically the number of challengers will from the GP will shrink further. If they had there players spread over 12 teams in a cap of c£7-8 and that's dropping by at least 1.4m (but probably 2m with a marquee) with the players spread over 13 and maybe 14 next season they're going to be weaker again. Dayglo isn't wrong that most of them teams couldn't compete with Leinster.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014 Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
Ultimately, thats up to them. We love the European Cup in Ireland - in reality we're pretty much alone in that. A lot of French and English clubs regard it as more albatross than goose and, to continue the avian theme, its becoming a dead duck. Until an English or French club can earn considerably more from playing a European game than it can from playing a domestic game, thats going to continue to be the case.
Obviously these last couple of European campaigns have been a bit of a damp squib due to the restrictions, but are you sure you're not just talking about the clubs that haven't a hope of winning it? I don't get that vibe at all from the likes of Toulouse, Clermont, Saracens, Leicester etc. The players most certainly don't act like they don't care.
Thats a handful of clubs though. I mean they watered down the qualification to 4 matches where you need to win 2 to progress. Then the farcical round of 16 with home and away matches so everyone gets the same no. of home games. SOme hilariously one sided scores in them double headers.
And realisitically the number of challengers will from the GP will shrink further. If they had there players spread over 12 teams in a cap of c£7-8 and that's dropping by at least 1.4m (but probably 2m with a marquee) with the players spread over 13 and maybe 14 next season they're going to be weaker again. Dayglo isn't wrong that most of them teams couldn't compete with Leinster.
He is wrong on the maths. The reason we outcompete is that we produce our own players in the province, English clubs rely on a mix of home produced, international buy in's and transfers from other clubs.
Obviously these last couple of European campaigns have been a bit of a damp squib due to the restrictions, but are you sure you're not just talking about the clubs that haven't a hope of winning it? I don't get that vibe at all from the likes of Toulouse, Clermont, Saracens, Leicester etc. The players most certainly don't act like they don't care.
Thats a handful of clubs though. I mean they watered down the qualification to 4 matches where you need to win 2 to progress. Then the farcical round of 16 with home and away matches so everyone gets the same no. of home games. SOme hilariously one sided scores in them double headers.
And realisitically the number of challengers will from the GP will shrink further. If they had there players spread over 12 teams in a cap of c£7-8 and that's dropping by at least 1.4m (but probably 2m with a marquee) with the players spread over 13 and maybe 14 next season they're going to be weaker again. Dayglo isn't wrong that most of them teams couldn't compete with Leinster.
He is wrong on the maths. The reason we outcompete is that we produce our own players in the province, English clubs rely on a mix of home produced, international buy in's and transfers from other clubs.
Even if we weren't handicapped by the fact we have to produce our own, why shouldn't we have one of the top spending squads in Europe? We are in a prime rugby location, large and wealthy population to target, big sponsorship deals and a TV deal that is getting better each time its renewed.
Some serious questions would have to be asked as to where the money is going if we weren't able to compete financially with these English clubs...
What maths does he have wrong? He never said anything about they produce players(they’ll be moving more towards relying on their academy’s now you’d imagine). It’s not an attack on Leinster, he’s just pointing out the days of the big spending gp teams is over. I think his sympathies are with the players taking a big pay cut.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014 Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
Leinster pay players at a rate to keep them from going to England or France. English clubs pay them not to go to other English clubs and they inflated their own wages. I wouldn't expect the salary cap reductions to have much effect on Irish clubs other than a reduction in pressure from English clubs trying to recruit Irish players (a good thing for us) and a window where a few IQ players in England look at coming to Ireland when faced with difficult renewals. We won't be making it harder for them to recruit internationally.
Leinster signed a reserve tighthead this year, (we're down 4 tightheads in 2 years). You have to go back to 2017 to find another signing currently in the Leinster 23.
The last HC QF round was 5 French clubs, 2 English and Leinster. We're not an issue for them.
paddyor wrote: ↑January 6th, 2022, 11:49 am
What maths does he have wrong? He never said anything about they produce players(they’ll be moving more towards relying on their academy’s now you’d imagine). It’s not an attack on Leinster, he’s just pointing out the days of the big spending gp teams is over. I think his sympathies are with the players taking a big pay cut.
He was whining that English clubs can't compete with big spending Leinster despite the fact that the new salary cap will allow English clubs a wage budget similar to Leinsters. It's not the wage budget that stops them competing, it's the quality of the players.
Every time that someone connected to Premiership rugby complains that they can’t compete with the Irish one just knows that clearly Paddy isn’t tugging the forelock quite enough. Our ‘competitiveness’ is clearly an affront to them.
The French reported twice the UK numbers only 2 days ago. The restrictions were dumb.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014 Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles
