Leinster v Bath Sat 11th December 3.15 Aviva

[Flash Gordon]

Can / do Leinster train outside on a day like today or do they do something useful in the Gym?

Having been briefly outside this morning in South Dublin, I can confirm it is impossible to control a ball in any way this morning, except perhaps putting the ball into a scrum. Lineouts - impossible; passing - impossible; catching a high ball - impossible; kicking - possible, but no control on direction;

So what do they do by way of prep for Saturday or is the day a write off on any physical work and devoted totally to video work?

No idea, their week is very structured obviously. I really don't know about these things but I'd imagine a day like to day would be a pretty good test of technique, if you can plan in these conditions you can play in any. Also it's pretty much like playing at the Sportsground most weekends....

[Caliphi]

Mr Power has Leinster at 1/200, and Bath at 50/1
Can't be far off a record against an English team

[curates_egg]

What I find wild is that everybody, in their team selection, is going with Harry. It's unquestioned almost.
I don't fully understand why we would select our number three out half (who has looked very shaky) for the biggest game of our season so far - even if Bath are at a low ebb.
Leinster need some squad coherency ahead of Montpellier.

Ireland's World Cup in 2023 is not Leinster's concern in December 2021.
Leinster also need Harry to start games, including big games. But let's build on Connacht and start him vs Munster.

[hugonaut]

What I find wild is that everybody, in their team selection, is going with Harry.
I don't fully understand why we would select our number three out half (who has looked very shaky) for the biggest game of our season so far - even if Bath are at a low ebb.
Ireland's World Cup in 2023 is not Leinster's concern in December 2021.
Leinster also need some squad coherency ahead of Montpellier.

Leinster need Harry to start games, including big games. But let's build on Connacht and start him vs Munster.

I don't think it hurts us at all to start Harry against Bath. They're pretty weak at the moment – as weak as any team we have faced in the URC, probably worse given their seasonal record – and I don't think there is much chance of an upset.

We are much better off having Ross off the bench in a tight game rather than Harry off the bench. Ross is far less likely to over-reach and make errors. Probably not going to be relevant against Bath, but it may be relevant against Montpellier. I would take a leaf out of Farrell's book and have experience on the bench for the next couple of games.

[ronk]

Ross has played a lot of rugby last few years. I think he likes lots of minutes and plays well when he plays often. I'd be concerned that he's undercooked.

[curates_egg]

Ross has played a lot of rugby last few years. I think he likes lots of minutes and plays well when he plays often. I'd be concerned that he's undercooked.

That’s sort of what I’m getting at: we need Ross fully at match speed for Montpellier.

[hugonaut]

TBP should be the priority here given Bath's form.

Injury pending, I'd go with:
Porter, Kelleher, Furlong, Ryan, Molony, Doris, VDF, Conan, JGP, Harry, Lowe, Henshaw, Ringer, Larmour, Keenan
Sheehan, Healy, Ala'alatoa, Baird, Rhys, McGrath, Ross, JOB

Am assuming Conan, JGP, Ryan are fit and Sexton isn't. Although I still think it's worth giving Harry a start if Sexton is available.

Would have no issues with Adam Byrne starting either.

Adam Byrne on the right wing and Larmour on the bench, possibly?

Adam has shown better form thus far this season and looks the more confident player. He only plays No14, which makes putting him on the bench a big risk, even in a bit of an easy fixture ... if you get an early injury to a centre, you end up moving a lot of pieces in the backline and you play 55 or 65 minutes with a backline formation that is going to stand you in much stead in the future. Jordan can cover both wings, fullback and [at a push] outside centre. Think it might be the right way to go.

I'd say that we will be without James Ryan though. The big question in my head is whether we go Molony, Toner + Baird or Molony, Baird + Toner ... for me, Molony is the guy that should start in either case. He's playing the best rugby of his career.

On the other hand, maybe we pick where our strength is and select two sub backrows - Rhys and Leavy, for example – and use Rhys as our second row cover [if we need to]. Just give Baird the push alongside Molony.

[curates_egg]

Conan, Connors and Ryan are all confirmed injured, so the back row is presumably Ruddock, VDF and Doris.
Dev wasn’t great against Ulster. I wonder if Murphy might sneak onto the bench.

[wixfjord]

Conan & Ryan aren't confirmed as out. Injury update said both will train this week with decision to be made later in week.

[mildlyinterested]

TBP should be the priority here given Bath's form.

Injury pending, I'd go with:
Porter, Kelleher, Furlong, Ryan, Molony, Doris, VDF, Conan, JGP, Harry, Lowe, Henshaw, Ringer, Larmour, Keenan
Sheehan, Healy, Ala'alatoa, Baird, Rhys, McGrath, Ross, JOB

Am assuming Conan, JGP, Ryan are fit and Sexton isn't. Although I still think it's worth giving Harry a start if Sexton is available.

Would have no issues with Adam Byrne starting either.

Adam Byrne on the right wing and Larmour on the bench, possibly?

Adam has shown better form thus far this season and looks the more confident player. He only plays No14, which makes putting him on the bench a big risk, even in a bit of an easy fixture ... if you get an early injury to a centre, you end up moving a lot of pieces in the backline and you play 55 or 65 minutes with a backline formation that is going to stand you in much stead in the future. Jordan can cover both wings, fullback and [at a push] outside centre. Think it might be the right way to go.

I'd say that we will be without James Ryan though. The big question in my head is whether we go Molony, Toner + Baird or Molony, Baird + Toner ... for me, Molony is the guy that should start in either case. He's playing the best rugby of his career.

On the other hand, maybe we pick where our strength is and select two sub backrows - Rhys and Leavy, for example – and use Rhys as our second row cover [if we need to]. Just give Baird the push alongside Molony.

Molony & Baird for me.

Porter Kelleher Furlong
Molony Baird
Ruddock JVDF Doris
JGP HB
Lowe Frawley Ringrose Larmour
Keenan

[mildlyinterested]

attendance for this now looking huge, which I suppose is understandable.

[erskinechilders]

What size we talking about?

[riocard911]

30K is the figure I've heard bandied about.

[curates_egg]

One of those is my empty seat. Was supposed to be my first game since 2019 but I can't travel.

[TMC]

Ross has played a lot of rugby last few years. I think he likes lots of minutes and plays well when he plays often. I'd be concerned that he's undercooked.

That’s sort of what I’m getting at: we need Ross fully at match speed for Montpellier.

Points differential matters, its the HEC start with the strongest XV available and sub off at half time if we're up by a truck load. Ross to start at 10 Frawley to sub - give him the opportunity too, he deserves one. RB to pin Bath back into the corners and the pack to do the business and get lots of practice ahead of next week scoring from 5 metres out and build a points buffer.

Andy Dunne had a very interesting take on Ross V Harry Byrne on OTB last night, Ross’ style of play is more mature, he concentrates on playing for the team / making those around him look good whereas Harry concentrates on looking good himself first and the team second.

Ross' maturity will be needed next week, for me he starts to get back in the groove. Not played a huge amount in the last 2 months.

[hugonaut]

Ross has played a lot of rugby last few years. I think he likes lots of minutes and plays well when he plays often. I'd be concerned that he's undercooked.

That’s sort of what I’m getting at: we need Ross fully at match speed for Montpellier.

Points differential matters, its the HEC start with the strongest XV available and sub off at half time if we're up by a truck load. Ross to start at 10 Frawley to sub - give him the opportunity too, he deserves one. RB to pin Bath back into the corners and the pack to do the business and get lots of practice ahead of next week scoring from 5 metres out and build a points buffer.

Andy Dunne had a very interesting take on Ross V Harry Byrne on OTB last night, Ross’ style of play is more mature, he concentrates on playing for the team / making those around him look good whereas Harry concentrates on looking good himself first and the team second.

Ross' maturity will be needed next week, for me he starts to get back in the groove. Not played a huge amount in the last 2 months.

That's just a soundbite from Dunne. I saw a clip of him saying that and I thought to myself, "God, he's so happy with that. How pithy and faux-profound." He can't read Harry's mind anymore than he can read Ross's.

Ross has played 100+ games for Leinster, 74 of them have been starts. Harry has played 20+ games, 16 have been starts. If you don't think that Ross is going to be better at using the team around him, then you're basically saying that people don't get better at their jobs by doing them; that experience counts for nothing; and that teamwork is nothing to do with practice, it's all just completely intuitive. Which is all clearly b*%&!cks.

Harry has got more individual options than Ross. His running game is way better that Ross's: Ross barely has one, Harry has a good one. Harry can throw better passes than Ross [I saw him give the best pass I have ever seen a Leinster player – or any player for that matter – give in a Leinster 'A' match a couple of seasons] and if he is not quite as good a kicker, he certainly has an excellent kicking game, both off the ground and out of hand.

I don't have a horse in this race: I like and rate both players. I think that Ross is under-rated, because he has got very, very good game-management skills, he's tough and he's a pressure place-kicker. But if you were asking me who was the more talented of the two brothers, I wouldn't waste a second in over-thinking it: it's Harry.

[arsebiscuits1]

Conan & Ryan aren't confirmed as out. Injury update said both will train this week with decision to be made later in week.

In Leinster injury update speak that translates to they're guaranteed not to play.

I can't remember the last time we had a similar update on a player and they featured that weekend

[mildlyinterested]

Harry has to start this game for me, if it goes badly Ross can steady the ship.

[riocard911]

That’s sort of what I’m getting at: we need Ross fully at match speed for Montpellier.

Points differential matters, its the HEC start with the strongest XV available and sub off at half time if we're up by a truck load. Ross to start at 10 Frawley to sub - give him the opportunity too, he deserves one. RB to pin Bath back into the corners and the pack to do the business and get lots of practice ahead of next week scoring from 5 metres out and build a points buffer.

Andy Dunne had a very interesting take on Ross V Harry Byrne on OTB last night, Ross’ style of play is more mature, he concentrates on playing for the team / making those around him look good whereas Harry concentrates on looking good himself first and the team second.

Ross' maturity will be needed next week, for me he starts to get back in the groove. Not played a huge amount in the last 2 months.

That's just a soundbite from Dunne. I saw a clip of him saying that and I thought to myself, "God, he's so happy with that. How pithy and faux-profound." He can't read Harry's mind anymore than he can read Ross's.

Ross has played 100+ games for Leinster, 74 of them have been starts. Harry has played 20+ games, 16 have been starts. If you don't think that Ross is going to be better at using the team around him, then you're basically saying that people don't get better at their jobs by doing them; that experience counts for nothing; and that teamwork is nothing to do with practice, it's all just completely intuitive. Which is all clearly b*%&!cks.

Harry has got more individual options than Ross. His running game is way better that Ross's: Ross barely has one, Harry has a good one. Harry can throw better passes than Ross [I saw him give the best pass I have ever seen a Leinster player – or any player for that matter – give in a Leinster 'A' match a couple of seasons] and if he is not quite as good a kicker, he certainly has an excellent kicking game, both off the ground and out of hand.

I don't have a horse in this race: I like and rate both players. I think that Ross is under-rated, because he has got very, very good game-management skills, he's tough and he's a pressure place-kicker. But if you were asking me who was the more talented of the two brothers, I wouldn't waste a second in over-thinking it: it's Harry.

+1

[TMC]

Think Ross somewhat underappreciated for a guy with his track record. He has delivered in spades. AD loved his line, but there is a nub of decent point in what he said.
I'd trust in Ross to deliver. I'd hope Harry would.
HEC not the place for hope IMHO.