Leinster v. Connacht, FRI 03 DEC, 1945hrs, Beo ar TG4 agus Premier Sport 2

[LeinsterLeader]

It was also great to see us get through a game without losing anybody to injury. That seems like a bit of a rarity to me these days.

Healy hobbled off at half-time and he was still moving gingerly when he came out to sit with subs for the second half.

I thought it was too good to be true. I had hobbled off at halftime myself ... to buy as many pints as I could carry. What else did I miss?

Leo said he thought it was just cramp and precautionary with Cian. Didn't sound too sure though so won't be surprised if it was more alright.

[Blue Man]

I’m finding it hard to feel enthusiastic over that victory. It was another error littered performance. Something that worries me is that, at the moment, we’re playing like a badly coached team. Recent performances dont match the talent of the side, discipline is bad and unforced errors / turnovers are a feature of the game.

The ambition to develop a wider game his not being realised as the half backs are slow and fail to hold the opposition defence, whilst there is also a lack of decoy runners to fix the opposition defence. It’s all very lateral, shoveling hospital passes out to the 3/4s who are perfect targets for the rush.

A feature of recent games is that we keep giving the ball away cheaply. The stats below underscore the point.
Penalties and turnovers conceded vs:
Connacht 12 / 15
Ulster 15 / 11
Glasgow 13 / 10
Scarlets 7 / 16
Zebre 6 / 13
Dragons 23 / 11
A side like Leinster should be in single figures for both metrics.
In particular, we seem to have problems playing to the referees interpretation, which is a big concern. I don’t know if it’s discipline or lack of rugby intellect but it needs to be addressed urgently.

The Ireland team (compromised of mainly Leinster players) in Autumn had a clear game plan; however, apart from pick and go close to the opposition line (easy to bully URC sides but won’t be the same vs Sarries, Tigers or Toulouse), Leinster look shapeless and low on ideas. There is a total inability to counterattack, players don’t run support lines or attack space.

In my opinion, this season so far has been disappointing. Victories and good performances are not a right but performing to potential is something that every team should achieve, at the moment it is not the case with this Leinster side.

We’re about to start the European Cup campaign, a competition that this group of players is talented enough to win but a serious improvement in structure, discipline, cohesion and clarity of purpose is urgently required. In particular, control from half back has to improve or we won’t make the semi finals, let alone win it.

[Oldschool]

I’m finding it hard to feel enthusiastic over that victory. It was another error littered performance. Something that worries me is that, at the moment, we’re playing like a badly coached team. Recent performances dont match the talent of the side, discipline is bad and unforced errors / turnovers are a feature of the game.

The ambition to develop a wider game his not being realised as the half backs are slow and fail to hold the opposition defence, whilst there is also a lack of decoy runners to fix the opposition defence. It’s all very lateral, shoveling hospital passes out to the 3/4s who are perfect targets for the rush.

A feature of recent games is that we keep giving the ball away cheaply. The stats below underscore the point.
Penalties and turnovers conceded vs:
Connacht 12 / 15
Ulster 15 / 11
Glasgow 13 / 10
Scarlets 7 / 16
Zebre 6 / 13
Dragons 23 / 11
A side like Leinster should be in single figures for both metrics.
In particular, we seem to have problems playing to the referees interpretation, which is a big concern. I don’t know if it’s discipline or lack of rugby intellect but it needs to be addressed urgently.

The Ireland team (compromised of mainly Leinster players) in Autumn had a clear game plan; however, apart from pick and go close to the opposition line (easy to bully URC sides but won’t be the same vs Sarries, Tigers or Toulouse), Leinster look shapeless and low on ideas. There is a total inability to counterattack, players don’t run support lines or attack space.

In my opinion, this season so far has been disappointing. Victories and good performances are not a right but performing to potential is something that every team should achieve, at the moment it is not the case with this Leinster side.

We’re about to start the European Cup campaign, a competition that this group of players is talented enough to win but a serious improvement in structure, discipline, cohesion and clarity of purpose is urgently required. In particular, control from half back has to improve or we won’t make the semi finals, let alone win it.

That covers the opening address at tomorrow's post mortem or should.

[the spoofer]

I’m finding it hard to feel enthusiastic over that victory. It was another error littered performance. Something that worries me is that, at the moment, we’re playing like a badly coached team. Recent performances dont match the talent of the side, discipline is bad and unforced errors / turnovers are a feature of the game.

The ambition to develop a wider game his not being realised as the half backs are slow and fail to hold the opposition defence, whilst there is also a lack of decoy runners to fix the opposition defence. It’s all very lateral, shoveling hospital passes out to the 3/4s who are perfect targets for the rush.

A feature of recent games is that we keep giving the ball away cheaply. The stats below underscore the point.
Penalties and turnovers conceded vs:
Connacht 12 / 15
Ulster 15 / 11
Glasgow 13 / 10
Scarlets 7 / 16
Zebre 6 / 13
Dragons 23 / 11
A side like Leinster should be in single figures for both metrics.
In particular, we seem to have problems playing to the referees interpretation, which is a big concern. I don’t know if it’s discipline or lack of rugby intellect but it needs to be addressed urgently.

The Ireland team (compromised of mainly Leinster players) in Autumn had a clear game plan; however, apart from pick and go close to the opposition line (easy to bully URC sides but won’t be the same vs Sarries, Tigers or Toulouse), Leinster look shapeless and low on ideas. There is a total inability to counterattack, players don’t run support lines or attack space.

In my opinion, this season so far has been disappointing. Victories and good performances are not a right but performing to potential is something that every team should achieve, at the moment it is not the case with this Leinster side.

We’re about to start the European Cup campaign, a competition that this group of players is talented enough to win but a serious improvement in structure, discipline, cohesion and clarity of purpose is urgently required. In particular, control from half back has to improve or we won’t make the semi finals, let alone win it.

Good God.

[paddyor]

I’m finding it hard to feel enthusiastic over that victory. It was another error littered performance. Something that worries me is that, at the moment, we’re playing like a badly coached team. Recent performances dont match the talent of the side, discipline is bad and unforced errors / turnovers are a feature of the game.

The ambition to develop a wider game his not being realised as the half backs are slow and fail to hold the opposition defence, whilst there is also a lack of decoy runners to fix the opposition defence. It’s all very lateral, shoveling hospital passes out to the 3/4s who are perfect targets for the rush.

A feature of recent games is that we keep giving the ball away cheaply. The stats below underscore the point.
Penalties and turnovers conceded vs:
Connacht 12 / 15
Ulster 15 / 11
Glasgow 13 / 10
Scarlets 7 / 16
Zebre 6 / 13
Dragons 23 / 11
A side like Leinster should be in single figures for both metrics.
In particular, we seem to have problems playing to the referees interpretation, which is a big concern. I don’t know if it’s discipline or lack of rugby intellect but it needs to be addressed urgently.

The Ireland team (compromised of mainly Leinster players) in Autumn had a clear game plan; however, apart from pick and go close to the opposition line (easy to bully URC sides but won’t be the same vs Sarries, Tigers or Toulouse), Leinster look shapeless and low on ideas. There is a total inability to counterattack, players don’t run support lines or attack space.

In my opinion, this season so far has been disappointing. Victories and good performances are not a right but performing to potential is something that every team should achieve, at the moment it is not the case with this Leinster side.

We’re about to start the European Cup campaign, a competition that this group of players is talented enough to win but a serious improvement in structure, discipline, cohesion and clarity of purpose is urgently required. In particular, control from half back has to improve or we won’t make the semi finals, let alone win it.

Did you actually watch the game?

[Oldschool]

I’m finding it hard to feel enthusiastic over that victory. It was another error littered performance. Something that worries me is that, at the moment, we’re playing like a badly coached team. Recent performances dont match the talent of the side, discipline is bad and unforced errors / turnovers are a feature of the game.

The ambition to develop a wider game his not being realised as the half backs are slow and fail to hold the opposition defence, whilst there is also a lack of decoy runners to fix the opposition defence. It’s all very lateral, shoveling hospital passes out to the 3/4s who are perfect targets for the rush.

A feature of recent games is that we keep giving the ball away cheaply. The stats below underscore the point.
Penalties and turnovers conceded vs:
Connacht 12 / 15
Ulster 15 / 11
Glasgow 13 / 10
Scarlets 7 / 16
Zebre 6 / 13
Dragons 23 / 11
A side like Leinster should be in single figures for both metrics.
In particular, we seem to have problems playing to the referees interpretation, which is a big concern. I don’t know if it’s discipline or lack of rugby intellect but it needs to be addressed urgently.

The Ireland team (compromised of mainly Leinster players) in Autumn had a clear game plan; however, apart from pick and go close to the opposition line (easy to bully URC sides but won’t be the same vs Sarries, Tigers or Toulouse), Leinster look shapeless and low on ideas. There is a total inability to counterattack, players don’t run support lines or attack space.

In my opinion, this season so far has been disappointing. Victories and good performances are not a right but performing to potential is something that every team should achieve, at the moment it is not the case with this Leinster side.

We’re about to start the European Cup campaign, a competition that this group of players is talented enough to win but a serious improvement in structure, discipline, cohesion and clarity of purpose is urgently required. In particular, control from half back has to improve or we won’t make the semi finals, let alone win it.

Did you actually watch the game?

Based on his appraisal, I'd say he did.

[Flash Gordon]

I’m finding it hard to feel enthusiastic over that victory. It was another error littered performance. Something that worries me is that, at the moment, we’re playing like a badly coached team. Recent performances dont match the talent of the side, discipline is bad and unforced errors / turnovers are a feature of the game.

The ambition to develop a wider game his not being realised as the half backs are slow and fail to hold the opposition defence, whilst there is also a lack of decoy runners to fix the opposition defence. It’s all very lateral, shoveling hospital passes out to the 3/4s who are perfect targets for the rush.

A feature of recent games is that we keep giving the ball away cheaply. The stats below underscore the point.
Penalties and turnovers conceded vs:
Connacht 12 / 15
Ulster 15 / 11
Glasgow 13 / 10
Scarlets 7 / 16
Zebre 6 / 13
Dragons 23 / 11
A side like Leinster should be in single figures for both metrics.
In particular, we seem to have problems playing to the referees interpretation, which is a big concern. I don’t know if it’s discipline or lack of rugby intellect but it needs to be addressed urgently.

The Ireland team (compromised of mainly Leinster players) in Autumn had a clear game plan; however, apart from pick and go close to the opposition line (easy to bully URC sides but won’t be the same vs Sarries, Tigers or Toulouse), Leinster look shapeless and low on ideas. There is a total inability to counterattack, players don’t run support lines or attack space.

In my opinion, this season so far has been disappointing. Victories and good performances are not a right but performing to potential is something that every team should achieve, at the moment it is not the case with this Leinster side.

We’re about to start the European Cup campaign, a competition that this group of players is talented enough to win but a serious improvement in structure, discipline, cohesion and clarity of purpose is urgently required. In particular, control from half back has to improve or we won’t make the semi finals, let alone win it.

Pretty tough assessment given that we hammered them. That being said there are things in here that are probably right. Coming back from the Autumn series the change of pace at half back in terms of distribution was really stark. I see the angles of running and what we are trying to do - Harry was much better on Friday, he was obviously on a brief to get the ball out asap and that's it. Play the basics.

Agree with you on the bullying point, doing that to Connacht is not the same as trying to do that against Saracens or Montpellier.

Another thing that that's a bit of a worry is that despite a stellar tight 5 line up we aren't dominating the way I thought we would at scrum time. Connacht was difficult to read though as the ref was struggling to ref it, there seemed to be 2 or 3 resets every scrum.

[paddyor]

Did you actually watch the game?

Based on his appraisal, I'd say he did.

The ambition to develop a wider game his not being realised as the half backs are slow and fail to hold the opposition defence, whilst there is also a lack of decoy runners to fix the opposition defence. It’s all very lateral, shoveling hospital passes out to the 3/4s who are perfect targets for the rush.

Then he missed the 2nd try in particular the buld up to which was some of the best we've played this season. Or the 3rd try were Byrne fixed the defender and set Sheahan lose. Or the 4th try were we went wide off a lineout.

This is a bit circular

The Ireland team (compromised of mainly Leinster players) in Autumn had a clear game plan; however, apart from pick and go close to the opposition line (easy to bully URC sides but won’t be the same vs Sarries, Tigers or Toulouse), Leinster look shapeless and low on ideas.

Surelt the point is if you can't do it against Connacht you won't be able to do it against better sides. And that cuts both ways. Just because you can play an expansive game against a side that's 20 points down haveing given up the tbp doesn't mean it will translate to championship game. We closed the game out with percentage rugby.

I mean pretty much the same pack were able to pick and go in the 22 vs NZ NZ but Sarries and Toulouse are a bridge too far?

[Oldschool]

Did you actually watch the game?

Based on his appraisal, I'd say he did.

The ambition to develop a wider game his not being realised as the half backs are slow and fail to hold the opposition defence, whilst there is also a lack of decoy runners to fix the opposition defence. It’s all very lateral, shoveling hospital passes out to the 3/4s who are perfect targets for the rush.

Then he missed the 2nd try in particular the buld up to which was some of the best we've played this season. Or the 3rd try were Byrne fixed the defender and set Sheahan lose. Or the 4th try were we went wide off a lineout.

This is a bit circular

The Ireland team (compromised of mainly Leinster players) in Autumn had a clear game plan; however, apart from pick and go close to the opposition line (easy to bully URC sides but won’t be the same vs Sarries, Tigers or Toulouse), Leinster look shapeless and low on ideas.

Surelt the point is if you can't do it against Connacht you won't be able to do it against better sides. And that cuts both ways. Just because you can play an expansive game against a side that's 20 points down haveing given up the tbp doesn't mean it will translate to championship game. We closed the game out with percentage rugby.

I mean pretty much the same pack were able to pick and go in the 22 vs NZ NZ but Sarries and Toulouse are a bridge too far?

You can pick and choose bits to suit your argument but it still doesn't get us away from the general thrust of "bluey's" argument that if we have the wrong SH on the pitch then we're going nowhere.
Maybe I'm just joining too many dots in "bluey's" post or maybe even just choosing the bits that suit my argument.
I happen to think his post was fair comment and worthy of debate.

[riocard911]

Certainly the point made about the unacceptably high number of penos and unforced errors is indisputable. Think Leo even made an indirect reference to this aspect of our performance in the post-match presser, if I understood him correctly.

[wixfjord]

There have been two standout performances this season imo - Bulls and Glasgow. Scrum and lineout working, power forwards carrying hard, good speedy ruck and nice shape to our backline.

The rest have been a mix of very poor (Dragons, Ulster) and mixed.

We started very poorly the other night, partly caused by a malfunctioning 9. From about 20-55/60 we played really well and then dipped again.

I would agree that the number of pens is a bit strange though.

[ronk]

There have been two standout performances this season imo - Bulls and Glasgow. Scrum and lineout working, power forwards carrying hard, good speedy ruck and nice shape to our backline.

The rest have been a mix of very poor (Dragons, Ulster) and mixed.

We started very poorly the other night, partly caused by a malfunctioning 9. From about 20-55/60 we played really well and then dipped again.

I would agree that the number of pens is a bit strange though.

An unscientific theory might be that a lot of penalties were conceded late in contests that were already over. Could be that we're getting greedy or maybe refs are disposed to help out the losing team (I've felt that way).

[Dexter]

There have been two standout performances this season imo - Bulls and Glasgow. Scrum and lineout working, power forwards carrying hard, good speedy ruck and nice shape to our backline.

The rest have been a mix of very poor (Dragons, Ulster) and mixed.

We started very poorly the other night, partly caused by a malfunctioning 9. From about 20-55/60 we played really well and then dipped again.

I would agree that the number of pens is a bit strange though.

An unscientific theory might be that a lot of penalties were conceded late in contests that were already over. Could be that we're getting greedy or maybe refs are disposed to help out the losing team (I've felt that way).

Look at Matt Williams article in the IT re more attacking team = more penalized team.
Maybe not quite as relevant in this game as Connacht are also an attacking team but interesting all the same.

[Xanthippe]

There have been two standout performances this season imo - Bulls and Glasgow. Scrum and lineout working, power forwards carrying hard, good speedy ruck and nice shape to our backline.

The rest have been a mix of very poor (Dragons, Ulster) and mixed.

We started very poorly the other night, partly caused by a malfunctioning 9. From about 20-55/60 we played really well and then dipped again.

I would agree that the number of pens is a bit strange though.

An unscientific theory might be that a lot of penalties were conceded late in contests that were already over. Could be that we're getting greedy or maybe refs are disposed to help out the losing team (I've felt that way).

Penalties conceded:

1 qtr = 3
2nd qtr = 1
3rd qtr = 0
4th qtr = 8

Of the 8 in the final quarter 3 were in minutes 61 to 70 and 5 were in the final 10 minutes

[hugonaut]

An unscientific theory might be that a lot of penalties were conceded late in contests that were already over. Could be that we're getting greedy or maybe refs are disposed to help out the losing team (I've felt that way).

Penalties conceded:

1 qtr = 3
2nd qtr = 1
3rd qtr = 0
4th qtr = 8

Of the 8 in the final quarter 3 were in minutes 61 to 70 and 5 were in the final 10 minutes

Wow.

[the spoofer]

An unscientific theory might be that a lot of penalties were conceded late in contests that were already over. Could be that we're getting greedy or maybe refs are disposed to help out the losing team (I've felt that way).

Penalties conceded:

1 qtr = 3
2nd qtr = 1
3rd qtr = 0
4th qtr = 8

Of the 8 in the final quarter 3 were in minutes 61 to 70 and 5 were in the final 10 minutes

Wow.

Human instinct from refs. Doesn’t matter if it’s URC or U16s most don’t want to see a hammering

[hugonaut]

Penalties conceded:

1 qtr = 3
2nd qtr = 1
3rd qtr = 0
4th qtr = 8

Of the 8 in the final quarter 3 were in minutes 61 to 70 and 5 were in the final 10 minutes

Wow.

Human instinct from refs. Doesn’t matter if it’s URC or U16s most don’t want to see a hammering

I absolutely get that, and we have all become accustomed to it ... but to see that in black and white is astonishing [in this small matter].

We went 40-12 up at 59' [i.e. Connacht would have to score more than four converted tries, while keeping us scoreless, in 20 minutes] and then conceded eight penalties? No wonder a few people here were saying that we were very sloppy in the last quarter – we were giving away a penalty every two and a half minutes!

In general, I'm not much of a ref basher. I think it's a hard job and they do a lot for the game. However, I've got a set of eyes in my head and I recognise bad refereeing when I see it, and I am an anti-fan of Busby. I think he's a bad ref, I think he's a bit of a dose and I think he's got a chip on his shoulder about Leinster.

I thought at the game that he had just decided to penalise the sh*t out of us in the last portion of the game and it look like I was right.

[Flash Gordon]

An unscientific theory might be that a lot of penalties were conceded late in contests that were already over. Could be that we're getting greedy or maybe refs are disposed to help out the losing team (I've felt that way).

Penalties conceded:

1 qtr = 3
2nd qtr = 1
3rd qtr = 0
4th qtr = 8

Of the 8 in the final quarter 3 were in minutes 61 to 70 and 5 were in the final 10 minutes

Wow.

Interesting numbers. Think the fact that the game was won and players were tired played a part too. You that in the scoring patterns. Derby day intensity requires massive physical and mental effort. When nothing is on the line intensity and concentration drop off.

Wouldn't blame the ref in this instance, where he was really struggling was scrum time. Seemed every scrum was being reset and he didn't look in control at all.

[mildlyinterested]

he is a poor ref, like most pro irish refs unfortunately.

[Flash Gordon]

he is a poor ref, like most pro irish refs unfortunately.

Not going to argue with you, think most of us are reluctant to have a go at refs given the pressure they are under and the values of the game. URC refs aren't on big money either. My point was that the penalty count in the last quarter was largely a result of lack of concentration and focus.