Leinster vs Ulster, RDS, 27/11/21, 8pm

[Laighin Break]

Murphy's worst call was ignoring Gilroy taking Frawley out after he chipped him. I thought it should have been a penalty try

[Experimental]

Really slow start from us, poor discipline let us down. Ulsters defense was outstanding and fair play to them, totally deserved the win. Fulong, Henshaw, Leavy, and Connors all played well. We kicked really poorly in this game aswell. HByrne not being given enough game time to iron out the creases, we all know the talent is there, and theres a danger of stunting his development, its only a matter of time before those 'miracle balls' start to stick. Honestly, what do we expect when he gets ~ 10 mins for Ireland and Leinster? On the Ulster side, Hume deserved man of the match, was a serious thorn in our sides the whole game, Marty Moore, Timoney, McCann all played great. They should have gone to the corner with those long range Cooney penalties, backed their maul, and beaten us by more. Felt like we were in a training game, and Ulster were in a top of the table provincial derby clash fighting for top spot and were a lot more determined to do so. Gutted for Leavy, hope its nothing serious, made 2 brilliant try saving tackles while he was on.

[Blueberry]

Can't stand Murphy as a ref, literally grone everytime I hear he is reffing one of our matches and it always degenerates into a sh*t show.

Did we deserve to lose last night, yes we were pants but it doesn't hide Murphy's usual incompetence and careful attention to pinging Leinster for everything he can while carefully ignoring stuff on the other side.

Would love if I never saw him ref a Leinster game again.

[jezzer]

I don't think Penny is a 7. When he started with Leavy the balance was ok, as Dan is a 6/7 and they complement. But when Deegan came on the back row unit was totally ineffective. Max was anonymous and Ruddock was behind the play a lot.

Ed Byrne and James Treacy.... I just have never seen it with these two. Dooley and Cronin were way better when they came on and it's frankly always been like that.

So that's basically the majority of the pack in either the wrong position or wrongfully staring in place of better players (imo).

Thought the starting backs were generally fine, bar a very subpar game from Luke. Big Stu and Hume had huge games for the gringos, as did Lyttle in his brief cameo.

Harry Byrne must be a god in training. Because in games he does not justify in any way the faith that's being put in him. I don't see it with Hawkshaw either so personally I'd prefer Frawley to be no. 2 IC and no. 3 OH.

Frank Murphy wasn't the reason we lost. He was the reason it was a terrible game with some glaring issues going against both sides.

[Dexter]

Murphy's worst call was ignoring Gilroy taking Frawley out after he chipped him. I thought it should have been a penalty try

Apparently he referred that one to the TMO, maybe the chap was away making a cup of tea....
Bad as he is, he got zero help from his officiating team. It's frustrating enough watching Leinster playing like that and getting deservedly beaten, watching the officials make a balls of it just makes it worse.

[Blue Man]

Agree with jezzer.

[Dexter]

Frank Murphy wasn't the reason we lost. He was the reason it was a terrible game with some glaring issues going against both sides.

This is so spot on.

[backrower8]

Really slow start from us, poor discipline let us down. Ulsters defense was outstanding and fair play to them, totally deserved the win. Fulong, Henshaw, Leavy, and Connors all played well. We kicked really poorly in this game aswell. HByrne not being given enough game time to iron out the creases, we all know the talent is there, and theres a danger of stunting his development, its only a matter of time before those 'miracle balls' start to stick. Honestly, what do we expect when he gets ~ 10 mins for Ireland and Leinster? On the Ulster side, Hume deserved man of the match, was a serious thorn in our sides the whole game, Marty Moore, Timoney, McCann all played great. They should have gone to the corner with those long range Cooney penalties, backed their maul, and beaten us by more. Felt like we were in a training game, and Ulster were in a top of the table provincial derby clash fighting for top spot and were a lot more determined to do so. Gutted for Leavy, hope its nothing serious, made 2 brilliant try saving tackles while he was on.

+1

Ridiculous comments re HB on the post-match comments, until Experimental's wise words.

HB was given too little time for starters, and came on with the game slipping away - of course he tried to make things happen. Unlike his brother, at least he was trying to change things up and he takes the ball much closer to the line, whereas Ross is the worst type of 10 to have when the pack is being bullied, taking it so deep from already static ball.

This was unequivocally the pack's collective fault (with Luke and Ross compounding the malaise).

Murphy is not why we lost, but was Luke well advised not to challenge Murphy? I don't think I saw him try this once.

Of course the RDS crowd can't be relied on to make the venue inhospitable either for the opposition or the referee. Too dispassionate and out of practice.

[riocard911]

Really slow start from us, poor discipline let us down. Ulsters defense was outstanding and fair play to them, totally deserved the win. Fulong, Henshaw, Leavy, and Connors all played well. We kicked really poorly in this game aswell. HByrne not being given enough game time to iron out the creases, we all know the talent is there, and theres a danger of stunting his development, its only a matter of time before those 'miracle balls' start to stick. Honestly, what do we expect when he gets ~ 10 mins for Ireland and Leinster? On the Ulster side, Hume deserved man of the match, was a serious thorn in our sides the whole game, Marty Moore, Timoney, McCann all played great. They should have gone to the corner with those long range Cooney penalties, backed their maul, and beaten us by more. Felt like we were in a training game, and Ulster were in a top of the table provincial derby clash fighting for top spot and were a lot more determined to do so. Gutted for Leavy, hope its nothing serious, made 2 brilliant try saving tackles while he was on.

+1

Ridiculous comments re HB on the post-match comments, until Experimental's wise words.

HB was given too little time for starters, and came on with the game slipping away - of course he tried to make things happen. Unlike his brother, at least he was trying to change things up and he takes the ball much closer to the line, whereas Ross is the worst type of 10 to have when the pack is being bullied, taking it so deep from already static ball.

This was unequivocally the pack's collective fault (with Luke and Ross compounding the malaise).

Murphy is not why we lost, but was Luke well advised not to challenge Murphy? I don't think I saw him try this once.

Of course the RDS crowd can't be relied on to make the venue inhospitable either for the opposition or the referee. Too dispassionate and out of practice.

+1

[cormac]

Harry Byrne was not to blame for losing the game (that mostly was down to a poor performance from the starting pack) but the game wasn't slipping away when he came on. We'd just equalised to make it 10-10 having been 0-10 down.

[cormac]

It was also good to see Jack McGrath togged out. Presumably he was one of their travelling reserves. Hopefully he's not too far away from a return to actually playing.

[Lock9541]

I don't think Penny is a 7. When he started with Leavy the balance was ok, as Dan is a 6/7 and they complement. But when Deegan came on the back row unit was totally ineffective. Max was anonymous and Ruddock was behind the play a lot.

Ed Byrne and James Treacy.... I just have never seen it with these two. Dooley and Cronin were way better when they came on and it's frankly always been like that.

So that's basically the majority of the pack in either the wrong position or wrongfully staring in place of better players (imo).

Thought the starting backs were generally fine, bar a very subpar game from Luke. Big Stu and Hume had huge games for the gringos, as did Lyttle in his brief cameo.

Harry Byrne must be a god in training. Because in games he does not justify in any way the faith that's being put in him. I don't see it with Hawkshaw either so personally I'd prefer Frawley to be no. 2 IC and no. 3 OH.

Frank Murphy wasn't the reason we lost. He was the reason it was a terrible game with some glaring issues going against both sides.

Hawkshaw has been impressive in the AiL to be fair to him. He scored a great try here in the first clip
https://youtu.be/N60nPvOfqcA

[dropkick]

The problem HB has is he has so little time on the pitch when he does come on he tries to force things needlessly especially since it was a tight game. Every mistake then knocks the confidence a bit.


I think if he was on from the start he could get into his rythm and build on it.


Connors made a big impact off the bench and Frawley was leinsters best back.

[Oldschoolsocks]

some gas there alright

[Morf]

Frank Murphy wasn't the reason we lost. He was the reason it was a terrible game with some glaring issues going against both sides.

This is so spot on.

The Furlong penalty where it couldn't have been a ruck got a suitably withering look.

Holding on penalties where the jackal had no release were a feature I noticed.

[Flash Gordon]

I don't think Penny is a 7. When he started with Leavy the balance was ok, as Dan is a 6/7 and they complement. But when Deegan came on the back row unit was totally ineffective. Max was anonymous and Ruddock was behind the play a lot.

Ed Byrne and James Treacy.... I just have never seen it with these two. Dooley and Cronin were way better when they came on and it's frankly always been like that.

So that's basically the majority of the pack in either the wrong position or wrongfully staring in place of better players (imo).

Thought the starting backs were generally fine, bar a very subpar game from Luke. Big Stu and Hume had huge games for the gringos, as did Lyttle in his brief cameo.

Harry Byrne must be a god in training. Because in games he does not justify in any way the faith that's being put in him. I don't see it with Hawkshaw either so personally I'd prefer Frawley to be no. 2 IC and no. 3 OH.

Frank Murphy wasn't the reason we lost. He was the reason it was a terrible game with some glaring issues going against both sides.

Penny did a lot of work, his yardage and tackle count were standout numbers but we were so slow to the breakdown it's unreal.

Over the years we've been reasonably frequently done by rush defences and that's up to the half backs to unpick and ours had very poor games. Ross has constantly struggled with quick defence and his situation is not helped by slow ball and inaccurate passing. I've always thought Frawley was the better prospect and would love to see him get a shot at 10.

Harry Byrne coming on reminded me of him coming on vs Argentina, he didn't do the basics, veering towards the spectacular and forced things when a bit of patience was required. Can't help feeling he sometimes plays for Harry Byrne not the team.

Fair play to Ulster though, they executed their game plan well, we didn't touch the ball in the first quarter. Just a shame there weren't more of their fans in the RDS due to the various inhibiting factors.

[wixfjord]

Harry Byrne coming on reminded me of him coming on vs Argentina, he didn't do the basics, veering towards the spectacular and forced things when a bit of patience was required. Can't help feeling he sometimes plays for Harry Byrne not the team.

Yep agree. It's becoming a bit of a recurring problem unfortunately.

[backrower8]

Harry Byrne coming on reminded me of him coming on vs Argentina, he didn't do the basics, veering towards the spectacular and forced things when a bit of patience was required. Can't help feeling he sometimes plays for Harry Byrne not the team.

Yep agree. It's becoming a bit of a recurring problem unfortunately.

More premature negativity here.

HB has averaged less than 20 minutes a game in his last 5 matches dating back to June.

He has averaged 1 match a month (until the 'goldrush' of the last 2 weekends when he got a total 45 mins)

He has played for 2 teams in those 5 matches. Starting only 1 (for Leinster) when he lasted 22 minutes before going off after a very heavy collision.

11th June, 54 mins, Leinster victory; 10th July, 28 mins, Irish victory; 3 month's later, 9th October, 22 mins, Leinster victory; 6 weeks later, 30 mins, Irish victory; 27 November, 15 mins, Leinster loss.

So he has played 37 minutes, 7 weeks apart for Leinster thisa season, both times as a sub, once with the pack playing very poorly.


For fear of embarrassing themselves further (although I suspect at least one poster had that capability surgically removed some time ago), some people here need to wind their necks in a lot re HB and let things develop. The Messiah he is not, but neither is he a silly, naughty boy.

[Experimental]

A recent quote from Eddie Jones on Marcus Smith, imo the same applies to HByrne:

“Marcus is probably only going to be at his best in his late twenties, so we need to help him along this emotional journey and remind him about the journeys taken by some other great number 10s. When was Dan Carter at his best? At his last World Cup in 2015. Is Beauden Barrett a fully mature 10? No. He is a great player, but the best is still to come for him. Number 10s are like quarterbacks. You’ve got to allow them to fail. You’ve got to give them time to mature. The good ones come through. They repay you. They might have two or three years at their very best. But it is a demanding position.”

Eddie knows what hes talking about.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Harry Byrne coming on reminded me of him coming on vs Argentina, he didn't do the basics, veering towards the spectacular and forced things when a bit of patience was required. Can't help feeling he sometimes plays for Harry Byrne not the team.

Yep agree. It's becoming a bit of a recurring problem unfortunately.

More premature negativity here.

HB has averaged less than 20 minutes a game in his last 5 matches dating back to June.

He has averaged 1 match a month (until the 'goldrush' of the last 2 weekends when he got a total 45 mins)

He has played for 2 teams in those 5 matches. Starting only 1 (for Leinster) when he lasted 22 minutes before going off after a very heavy collision.

11th June, 54 mins, Leinster victory; 10th July, 28 mins, Irish victory; 3 month's later, 9th October, 22 mins, Leinster victory; 6 weeks later, 30 mins, Irish victory; 27 November, 15 mins, Leinster loss.

So he has played 37 minutes, 7 weeks apart for Leinster thisa season, both times as a sub, once with the pack playing very poorly.


For fear of embarrassing themselves further (although I suspect at least one poster had that capability surgically removed some time ago), some people here need to wind their necks in a lot re HB and let things develop. The Messiah he is not, but neither is he a silly, naughty boy.

Decent post, though the phrase "People in glass houses" does come to mind