The Leinster Backrow preview 2021/22

[mildlyinterested]

Openside
Josh Van Der Flier(28/Wesley/UCD) - signed 2 yr contract in 2020
Dan Leavy(27/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2021
Will Connors(25/Clongowes/UCD) - signed contract in 2020
Scott Penny(22/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2021

Josh Van Der Flier is coming off possibly his best season in blue and green, his added aggressiveness in the carry was very notable in the later part of the season, he enters the season as 1st choice for both province and country. Meanwhile Dan Leavy's status at the moment remains unclear after suffering an unfortunate knee injury last season following his long awaited successful return to the field for leinster, here's hoping he can recover from his latest setback, as he is brings a physicality that few in the province possess. Another openside who suffered an injury setback last season was Will Connors who got injured on Ireland duty which ended his season, when he is due back on the field remains unclear, but he will be hoping to hit the ground running after a breakout season for Leinster and Ireland. Finally the remaining senior option at openside turns 22 just before the season starts, Scott Penny turned down a move to another province to re-sign with his home province, he will be hoping to make his european debut this season and from there who knows what could happen.



Academy
Martin Moloney(21/Athy RFC/Old Belvedere) - Academy Yr 3
Mark Hernan(21/St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - Academy Yr 1

Martin Moloney has suffered from multiple injuries while in the academy, the very physical Athy man made his leinster debut last season and will be hoping to stay healthy and add to his single appearance for Leinster. Mark Hernan failed to make the academy last summer after his under-20 season was cut short due to covid but that didn't put him off and after another season in the sub-academy and developing physically the Lansdowne man has earned a place in the academy. How the openside position will work out this season is anyone's guess, can Leinster realistically retain all 4 senior 7's going forward?



Number 6/8
Rhys Ruddock(30/Exile/St. Marys) - signed contract in 2020
Jack Conan(29/St. Gerards/Old Belvedere) - signed contract in 2021
Josh Murphy(26/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2020
Max Deegan(24/St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2019
Caelan Doris(23/Blackrock/DUFC) - signed contract in 2020
Scott Penny(22/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2021

Rhys Ruddock is coming off an excellent season in blue, sadly cut short in the biggest game of the season for Leinster in France, Ruddock returns this season fulfilling a huge leadership role at the club, the big backrow covered both 6 and 8 last season but you'd expect him to focus mostly on 6 in this upcoming season bar an injury crisis at 8. Jack Conan is another leinster backrow coming off a breakout season, ending his season starting all three lions tests at number 8, something not anyone could have expected this time last season, it could be awhile before we see him in blue though. Josh Murphy covered 8 at times last season due to injury, but i'd expect he will be focusing on 4 and 6 this upcoming season. Max Deegan missed almost all of last season picking up a knee injury in his 1st game of the season, Deegan will hope to hit the ground running this season at number 8, while looking noticeably bulkier this preseason, can he push himself back into the ireland squad reckoning? Will he be happy to stay at Leinster going forward? Caelan Doris is another leinster backrow whose season was massively interrupted by injury this time in the worrying form of concussion. After returning from his layoff due to concussion, Doris struggled for form somewhat, it will be interesting to see how he starts the season, here is hoping he can put his concussion issues in the past. Finally Scott Penny was a pleasant surprise at number 8 last season displaying his versatility and ability on numerous occasions, is he likely to be called upon again at 8? It can't be ruled out.

Academy
Sean O'Brien(21/Blackrock/UCD) - Academy Yr 2
Alex Soroka(20/Belvedere/Clontarf) - Academy Yr 2

Sean O'Brien much like his predecessor of the same name is a versatile backrow who could line up at 6/7/8, it will be interesting to see what position he focuses once he returns to play, as O'Brien spent the summer in the US playing rugby for LA Giltinis. Alex Soroka offers similar versatility but at 4/6/8, I expect him to focus on 6 this season but him lining up at 8 for his club or Leinster A could quite easily happen.

[wixfjord]

Big season for Deegan. Hopefully he can get a few good games in early season.

He'll be tested against the SA packs.

[ronk]

With Fardy gone there's a gap for either Baird or Soroka. Murphy, Ruddock and Deegan arent bad options but there's a clear size difference.

So far I like Ryan as a lock primarily and Soroka as a 6 primarily.

[wixfjord]

With Fardy gone there's a gap for either Baird or Soroka. Murphy, Ruddock and Deegan arent bad options but there's a clear size difference.

So far I like Ryan as a lock primarily and Soroka as a 6 primarily.

A clear size difference between Murphy/Ruddock and Baird/Soroka?

[ronk]

Yes. There's a size difference between the lock sized players who blindside/lock and the blindside sized players who mostly play blindside.

[wixfjord]

Yes. There's a size difference between the lock sized players who blindside/lock and the blindside sized players who mostly play blindside.

Yes there is a size difference alright...

From LR site currently:

Baird 6'6 16st, 3lbs
Soroka 6' 5 16st, 6lbs
Murphy 6'6 17st, 4lbs
Ruddock 6'3 17st 9lbs

Am sure these stats will chance slightly as players come back into pre-season, but it's the other way around to what you seem to be saying?

Ruddock is actually probably our most 'heavy duty' back 5 player and Baird probably our least.

[ronk]

Fair enough. I had Murphy in my head as 6ft 4 and Baird as 6ft 7.

Are lock weights right? We seen very light with 3 2nd rows in the low 16 stones and Ryan only hitting 17.

[mildlyinterested]

Fair enough. I had Murphy in my head as 6ft 4 and Baird as 6ft 7.

Are lock weights right? We seen very light with 3 2nd rows in the low 16 stones and Ryan only hitting 17.

Baird is closer to 6'5 than 6'7.
Murphy is 6'5.

Leinsters locks are light outside of Toner and Dunne, but not as light as the weights on the website.

[backrower8]

With Fardy gone there's a gap for either Baird or Soroka. Murphy, Ruddock and Deegan arent bad options but there's a clear size difference.

So far I like Ryan as a lock primarily and Soroka as a 6 primarily.

Doris should be added to this list. With the Lions test 8 in the squad (and Coombes emerging in the Ireland squad), like Deegan, he does not have a clear run at 8 and needs to be able to play more than 1 position.

[hugonaut]

Fair enough. I had Murphy in my head as 6ft 4 and Baird as 6ft 7.

Are lock weights right? We seen very light with 3 2nd rows in the low 16 stones and Ryan only hitting 17.

Baird is closer to 6'5 than 6'7.
Murphy is 6'5.

Leinsters locks are light outside of Toner and Dunne, but not as light as the weights on the website.

Yep, some of the weights are wrong. Ross Molony was down at 111kg last year, now he is listed at 103kg ... did he lose 8kg over the summer or is it a typo? It's a typo.

[ronk]

That's what I thought, thanks.

[wixfjord]

That's what I thought, thanks.

They're not wrong enough to indicate that 'there's a size difference between the lock sized players who blindside/lock and the blindside sized players who mostly play blindside' though.

If we're looking at 6 options, Ruddock & Murphy are actually far more physical than Baird and (currently) Soroka.

[Morf]

Trust your eyes because the weights and heights on LR are deliberately and consistently inaccurate.

[OneLungDavy]

Trust your eyes because the weights and heights on LR are deliberately and consistently inaccurate.

They're definitely inaccurate, why would you think they are deliberate? To scare off the French and English?

[Oldschool]

Leinster and Ireland have to move away from the 6/7/8 mindset to a bigger, heavier, more powerful BR.
A Leinster BR of Doris, Ruddock, Conan and Deegan in whatever combination works best.
The days of a specialist groundhog aka JVDF are numbered
Funnily enough though, Scott Penny fits the powerful, ball carrying bill and he's a groundhog specialist too but is he too small?
JVDF and Will Connors would be the big losers and Josh Murphy would need a bit of up skilling but he has the ability to adjust.
The need to go big and powerful in the BR is also, in part, down to the fact that we don't have a genuine bruiser TH SR.
As a result we need to begin thinking about and coming up with workarounds or augments.
The Porter to LH is driven by that need for a workaround for the bruiser TH SR.

[backrower8]

Leinster and Ireland have to move away from the 6/7/8 mindset to a bigger, heavier, more powerful BR.
A Leinster BR of Doris, Ruddock, Conan and Deegan in whatever combination works best.
The days of a specialist groundhog aka JVDF are numbered
Funnily enough though, Scott Penny fits the powerful, ball carrying bill and he's a groundhog specialist too but is he too small?
JVDF and Will Connors would be the big losers and Josh Murphy would need a bit of up skilling but he has the ability to adjust.
The need to go big and powerful in the BR is also, in part, down to the fact that we don't have a genuine bruiser TH SR.
As a result we need to begin thinking about and coming up with workarounds or augments.
The Porter to LH is driven by that need for a workaround for the bruiser TH SR.

What should Leavy do?

[wixfjord]

Leinster and Ireland have to move away from the 6/7/8 mindset to a bigger, heavier, more powerful BR.
A Leinster BR of Doris, Ruddock, Conan and Deegan in whatever combination works best.
The days of a specialist groundhog aka JVDF are numbered
Funnily enough though, Scott Penny fits the powerful, ball carrying bill and he's a groundhog specialist too but is he too small?
JVDF and Will Connors would be the big losers and Josh Murphy would need a bit of up skilling but he has the ability to adjust.
The need to go big and powerful in the BR is also, in part, down to the fact that we don't have a genuine bruiser TH SR.
As a result we need to begin thinking about and coming up with workarounds or augments.
The Porter to LH is driven by that need for a workaround for the bruiser TH SR.

Based on what? There's absolutely no evidence to indicate that's the case. You've just named three #8s and Ruddock there. That's not a combination that would work at all.

Also if I were going for a more powerful backrow JVDF and Connors would certainly be involved.

[joooooe]

Leinster and Ireland have to move away from the 6/7/8 mindset to a bigger, heavier, more powerful BR.
A Leinster BR of Doris, Ruddock, Conan and Deegan in whatever combination works best.
The days of a specialist groundhog aka JVDF are numbered
Funnily enough though, Scott Penny fits the powerful, ball carrying bill and he's a groundhog specialist too but is he too small?
JVDF and Will Connors would be the big losers and Josh Murphy would need a bit of up skilling but he has the ability to adjust.
The need to go big and powerful in the BR is also, in part, down to the fact that we don't have a genuine bruiser TH SR.
As a result we need to begin thinking about and coming up with workarounds or augments.
The Porter to LH is driven by that need for a workaround for the bruiser TH SR.

I couldn't disagree more. A team with 5 120kg lads at 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 could be torn apart by a side that has specialists in each of these positions. The error is to try to meet fire with fire. La Rochelle were too big for us this year so the solution is to get bigger? What do you do if next year we put out a team of monsters that can't turn over ball, can't cope with the ball being put behind them, and is prone to being beaten out wide? Then we throw out all the big guys and apologise to our specialist 6s, 7s and 8s. In my opinion, we need to be flexible and have both options within the squad: Penney one week and Connors the next week and Leavy the week after; not just a squad-wide remit to get oomphier.

[riocard911]

"oomphier" - Doctor Johnson would've loved that!!

[wixfjord]

I couldn't disagree more. A team with 5 120kg lads at 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 could be torn apart by a side that has specialists in each of these positions. The error is to try to meet fire with fire. La Rochelle were too big for us this year so the solution is to get bigger? What do you do if next year we put out a team of monsters that can't turn over ball, can't cope with the ball being put behind them, and is prone to being beaten out wide? Then we throw out all the big guys and apologise to our specialist 6s, 7s and 8s. In my opinion, we need to be flexible and have both options within the squad: Penney one week and Connors the next week and Leavy the week after; not just a squad-wide remit to get oomphier.

Exeter would be a good example of that, a team with 4-7 all being prototypes and then Simmonds at 8 the outlier.

We took them apart partly because they didn't have the variety and ground game to compete.

The 'meet fire with fire' works to a degree and you need to equalise physicality as much as possible, but a team with, for eg, Ryan, Baird/Toner, Ruddock, Doris, Conan would be way too similar to succeed imo.