The Leinster Lock & Blindside preview 2021/22

[mildlyinterested]

Lock
James Ryan(25/St. Michaels/UCD) - central contract until 2023
Devin Toner(35/Castleknock/Lansdowne) - signed 1 yr contract in 2021
Ross Molony(27/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2021
Jack Dunne(22/St. Michaels/DUFC) - signed contract in 2020

James Ryan is coming off a mixed season, where he captained Ireland but also struggled with form and fitness. Can he return to his previous levels or will he continue to struggle in the tighthead lock role? Where has his ability to pass/offload gone? Big season needed by JR for Leinster and Ireland. Devin Toner returns to leinster after almost leaving last summer, the veteran leinster lock who became leinster's most capped player last season is slowing down but often is relied upon heavily to provide size in the leinster second row as well as he is lineout calling. The transition so far in replacing Toner has not gone smoothly. Ross Molony made the irish summer squad but failed to get capped, an excellent squad player for leinster can he be anymore than that for leinster over the next few years? Finally Jack Dunne ended this season with an injury which limited his ability to add to his 8 appearances last season, the big tighthead lock is heading into a big season in his career, can he step up or will Leinster need to go to the market to find a tighthead lock?

Academy
Charlie Ryan(22/Blackrock/UCD) - Academy Yr 3
Joe McCarthy(20/Blackrock/DUFC) - Academy Yr 2

Charlie Ryan had his season cut short last year with another shoulder injury, the former ireland u20 captain will be hoping to stay healthy this year and make his leinster debut. Concerns about his athleticism remain. Joe McCarthy who displayed some impressive physicality as an 18 year old for the irish u20's missed out on being a key player for them this summer due to a knee injury two weeks before the tournament, how quickly he returns from this injury is unclear. The academy tighthead lock duo will likely get opportunities this season if they can stay healthy, but will either be able to step up to the level required?



Lock/Blindside
Ryan Baird(22/St. Michaels/DUFC) - signed contract in 2020
Josh Murphy(26/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2020

Ryan Baird is coming off an up and down season last year, the big plays were still there somewhat but the consistency game to game was something he struggled with along with the highest level physicality that the leinster pack have often been found wanting against. He can cover blindside but it's not exactly a position i'd be comfortable to see him playing.. though physically it might be where he is best suited. Josh Murphy is primarily a blindside but I wouldn't be surprised to see him play 4 more this season, a good squad player so far in his career, it looks unlikely he will ever push to be a 1st choice player for Leinster.

Academy
Brian Deeny(21/Wexford RFC/Clontarf) - Academy Yr 3
Alex Soroka(20/Belvedere/Clontarf) - Academy Yr 2

As like many of the other young leinster locks, Brian Deeny has his progress last season stalled by injury, missing the whole year with a knee injury, already pictured training this summer with the seniors he will be hoping to hit the ground running in his final year in the academy. He has the athletic potential to line up at 4 or 6 and it will be interesting to see where he focuses on this season, my guess will be 4. Finally Alex Soroka is coming a very good u20 campaign, after making his leinster debut last season, his injury status is unclear after having some shoulder issues this summer.. the athletic blindside can play 4 too, i'd expect him to focus on blindside this season though. He could progress quickly this season, injury allowing.

[riocard911]

Soroka seemed to ship a shoulder injury at the start of the u20 6 Nations campaign in Wales, but still he got put out every match, while still visibly carrying it. I wasn't sure, if I thought that was such a great idea.....

[Ruckedtobits]

Excellent summary @mi. I wonder about the impact of Dev only having to concentrate on Leinster's key games without the burden of international duties - both squad duty and games. It strikes me that Dev has many similarities to Simon Shaw in this regard. He never had explosive qualities, he was rarely injured and he retains hugely useful 'intellectual experience' vital to big games.

I would welcome seeing him partner Ryan in commencement of all our key games with Baird being introduced at 55 / 60 mins to add his explosive potential to finish games. There will be many other games in which Baird can undertake the starting role and gradually improve his play as a 2nd Row to a point where there are no concerns about his consistency and ability to undertake the more mundane aspects of that role. To date that has been a shortcoming in many of his appearances and Leinster would benefit significantly if he could eradicate the occasional 'brain farts' which have been a feature of his career to date.

[ronk]

6 locks under 22 years of age, many who've missed chances with injury. Hopefully they can get fit and kick on.

Baird is a rising star, Dunne looks like he needs game time. Soroka looks good. Hard to tell with the others until they play.

[Ruckedtobits]

If Dunne can get game time and a combination of Leo & Dev can teach him to become ornery and awkward, and McBride can teach how to mechanically use his size and weight effectively in a scrum, we could have a very useful new contender. Big second-rows rarely 'grow into their bodies' until their mid to late-twenties (Itoje and Etzebeth are exceptions). If Dunne follows that path and Leo and Dev push him through the tough love school, he could become really important to us.

Maybe somebody can provide his legitimate stats but he looks 6'7" or 6'8" alongside Fardy & Ross Malony. He looks not too far off 118-120 kg and growing. That's the sort of physique we need now for a 7-yr stint.

[ronk]

Is Itoge big? He's not huge.

My frame of reference for a lock is 6 ft 5 and 18 stone.

Dunne seemed to have bulked up and as often happens I thought he was off the pace for a few games. But around the time he got injured he looked to have adapted. When he first broke through he was really promising. It would be great to see him back on that trajectory.

[leinsterforever]

If Dunne can get game time and a combination of Leo & Dev can teach him to become ornery and awkward, and McBride can teach how to mechanically use his size and weight effectively in a scrum, we could have a very useful new contender. Big second-rows rarely 'grow into their bodies' until their mid to late-twenties (Itoje and Etzebeth are exceptions). If Dunne follows that path and Leo and Dev push him through the tough love school, he could become really important to us.

Maybe somebody can provide his legitimate stats but he looks 6'7" or 6'8" alongside Fardy & Ross Malony. He looks not too far off 118-120 kg and growing. That's the sort of physique we need now for a 7-yr stint.

Dunne as pusher lock and Ryan as jumper lock? - with Baird as bench impact lock? Dunne could fulfil the role Schmidt envisioned for Quinn Roux.

(I had to look up 'ornery' )

[wixfjord]

I honestly think Dunne is one of our most important players over the next 3 years.

Baird/Ryan isn't a second row pairing that is any way balanced imo, despite how incredibly talented both are. That may change if Baird matures a bit.

But Dunne has the physical gifts that could make a really good TH lock.

If we can manage to weave himself and Dev in and out of teams this year and give Dunne a taste of a few big SA packs and maybe some Euro action, that'll be a big plus.

[ronk]

Dunne is big, athletic and shows talent young. I worry that people are expecting him to be something that he might not really be best suited to.

Just because he's our biggest lock doesn't mean he'll be a super enforcer. He might end up more Malcolm O'Kelly than Bob Casey. That's not a bad thing, That said I do hope he gives us a boost in the power stakes.

[wixfjord]

Dunne is big, athletic and shows talent young. I worry that people are expecting him to be something that he might not really be best suited to.

Just because he's our biggest lock doesn't mean he'll be a super enforcer. He might end up more Malcolm O'Kelly than Bob Casey. That's not a bad thing, That said I do hope he gives us a boost in the power stakes.

Who said that?!

[ronk]

I don't know that anyone did, might be a fair few thinking it.

[Oldschoolsocks]

So, what is an enforcer and what is their role?
Are they necessarily a forward? Are they necessarily a lock?

Courtney Lawes type who excels at the cheap shot
Big lump like Bakkies Botha who also excelled at the cheap shot?
An annoying git like Jenno, Wagga Wagga, Alan Quinlan or our own Leo C who made careers out of being a professional annoyance?
A centre like BOD who could target and remove specific threats from the opposition?
Or a lump like Bob Casey, Donnachadh O’Clumsyhands or Bakkies Botha who hit rucks with the force of a thousand suns?

[fourthirtythree]

So, what is an enforcer and what is their role?
Are they necessarily a forward? Are they necessarily a lock?

Courtney Lawes type who excels at the cheap shot
Big lump like Bakkies Botha who also excelled at the cheap shot?
An annoying git like Jenno, Wagga Wagga, Alan Quinlan or our own Leo C who made careers out of being a professional annoyance?
A centre like BOD who could target and remove specific threats from the opposition?
Or a lump like Bob Casey, Donnachadh O’Clumsyhands or Bakkies Botha who hit rucks with the force of a thousand suns?

God I miss Jenno and Leo who could make Paul O'Connel lose the plot. Reliably.

I recall standing close to Leo at a ruck getting the head bet off him by a Scottish player and him with his hands in the air looking innocent to the touch judge. And no complaints from him after either because he knew he was begging for the digs.

[ronk]

So, what is an enforcer and what is their role?
Are they necessarily a forward? Are they necessarily a lock?

Courtney Lawes type who excels at the cheap shot
Big lump like Bakkies Botha who also excelled at the cheap shot?
An annoying git like Jenno, Wagga Wagga, Alan Quinlan or our own Leo C who made careers out of being a professional annoyance?
A centre like BOD who could target and remove specific threats from the opposition?
Or a lump like Bob Casey, Donnachadh O’Clumsyhands or Bakkies Botha who hit rucks with the force of a thousand suns?

The thumb on the scales that tips the balance in the scrum, the maul, wins more collisions and wears down anything he comes into contact with.

[Oldschool]

So, what is an enforcer and what is their role?
Are they necessarily a forward? Are they necessarily a lock?

Courtney Lawes type who excels at the cheap shot
Big lump like Bakkies Botha who also excelled at the cheap shot?
An annoying git like Jenno, Wagga Wagga, Alan Quinlan or our own Leo C who made careers out of being a professional annoyance?
A centre like BOD who could target and remove specific threats from the opposition?
Or a lump like Bob Casey, Donnachadh O’Clumsyhands or Bakkies Botha who hit rucks with the force of a thousand suns?

God I miss Jenno and Leo who could make Paul O'Connel lose the plot. Reliably.

I recall standing close to Leo at a ruck getting the head bet off him by a Scottish player and him with his hands in the air looking innocent to the touch judge. And no complaints from him after either because he knew he was begging for the digs.

You stood there and DID WHAT - NOTHING.
Lovely.

[Ruckedtobits]

So, what is an enforcer and what is their role?
Are they necessarily a forward? Are they necessarily a lock?

The thumb on the scales that tips the balance in the scrum, the maul, wins more collisions and wears down anything he comes into contact with.

What a thoughtful and insightful description. Could I add the following qualification:

"It is desirable that a candidate looks suitably surprised and mildly embarrassed if penalised by a referee and wears an expression which clearly announces 'but I was only doing my best, I'm sorry if I am a bit awkward, but we can't all have perfect co-ordination'

[hugonaut]

So, what is an enforcer and what is their role?
Are they necessarily a forward? Are they necessarily a lock?

Courtney Lawes type who excels at the cheap shot
Big lump like Bakkies Botha who also excelled at the cheap shot?
An annoying git like Jenno, Wagga Wagga, Alan Quinlan or our own Leo C who made careers out of being a professional annoyance?
A centre like BOD who could target and remove specific threats from the opposition?
Or a lump like Bob Casey, Donnachadh O’Clumsyhands or Bakkies Botha who hit rucks with the force of a thousand suns?

The thumb on the scales that tips the balance in the scrum, the maul, wins more collisions and wears down anything he comes into contact with.

I think that's a good description.

More nonsense is talked about 'enforcers' than most things in contemporary rugby. Nobody throws digs anymore - they know they'll probably get caught on camera, get sent off and get a ban. That equates to costing their team on the day in the short term, in the competition in the mid-term and [personally] losing appearance money.

Most other non-'outside the game' foul play gets picked up as well – when I say 'outside the game', I mean the usual things like punching, kicking, stamping, gouging, fish-hooking etc. which were tolerated to a greater or lesser extent in the past depending on the competition, but still generally frowned upon. They're more or less completely absent from the contemporary game.

Nowadays you can get red-carded for collisions in the air, sloppy high tackles, tip tackles, no-arms tackles, clear-outs with no arms or to the head etc. - things that happen in rugby. There's between half a dozen and a dozen cameras at pro games, a TMO who is there to look out for precisely those sorts of actions and referees who are happy to hold up the game to review same. You used to get away with that an awful lot more even ten years ago and there was a bit of room for lairy big blokes to throw their weight around. Not really the same circumstances anymore.

O'Mahony got sent off twice this season for no-arms clear-outs because he was trying to physically intimidate opponents with cheap shots. There was a fella trying his best to be an 'enforcer', trying to show Gatland that he's the type of abrasive personality that the Lions needed out in South Africa, and he ended up basically holing Ireland's Six Nations below the waterline in the first twenty minutes of the competition.

So in short, being particularly strong for a professional level forward and having a dominant [Wayne Shelford, Martin Johnson] or abrasive [Bakkies Botha, Jerry Collins, Jamie Cudmore, Trevor Brennan] or strict [Brad Thorn, Paddy Johns] personality can make you an 'enforcer'. Bit of a stupid word, bit of an outdated concept, but there will always be a few players around who earn a reputation, mostly because of who they naturally are as men.

[ronk]

I think the enforcer role is there but watered down and the duties are better spread out among the team. The movie Goon was good, even if it was ice hockey.

I also think there are basically 4 ways an enforcer plays the dark arts in various combinations:
1 slow down ball/general disruption
2 stop them from doing the above
3 bully and bruise (including getting in their heads)
4 protect them from doing 3 to your team.

The team's biggest hitters are natural candidates for dark arts enforcer (this post) in addition to the battleships* from the previous post type player who get incorrectly called enforcers.

*Ships sailed in convoy to resist every threat except for a battleship. A convoy would scatter if a battleship was suspected to be in the area. Rugby is the same, you spread out, move the ball and retain possession if there's a big lump(s) who's unplayable, but otherwise you concentrate and go through patterns.

Players play to the team strategy but my biggest indicator for understanding what type a backrow/lock is is to look at them after they tackle. Some roll away and bounce up as fast as they can (Ruddock) to get back in defence. They don't get pinged a lot and like good competent refs. Others get a little on the wrong side and force someone to clear them out (POM, Quinlan). They want refs they can con and they love to drag opposition's down to their level.

Very few modern refs understand that most modern handbags are because teams know refs both-sides minor brawls and give out to both teams. This is a charter for the more aggressive team. As is the way they see players trying to pull shirts around rucks and tell them to stop. So the worst that happens is that you get told to stop. Best case is you get a dig and they get red. Refs will have to be watching for it for the rest of the game Blowing a penalty is better, players stop and the ref has an easier job.

Fans (& coaches) are used to seeing one or the other and good players are ones who do what we expect them to do rather than which style they're effective at. James Ryan is amazing and is very much a back on your feet tackler. When his form dipped with apparent injury I suspect that people saw a bigger dip because of his style. Btw he's a type 2/4enforcer. I saw some brutal clear outs against England, notoriously. He'll try and match teams that do it to us, but you don't see it happen when he sees a chance to lay a king hit in a random big game.

[Oldschool]

It's a funny old world.
The more things change the more ithey stay the same.
The first post and page of posts on the Rumour Mill thread were all about - you've guessed it.

[ronk]

Elsom (as a tall blindside) 08-09, Hines 09-11, Thorn 11-12, Browne 11-13, McCarthy 13-17 , Triggs 15-17, Fardy 17-21

21-22 all the locks are home grown. There's some serious talent but it's also a position where most fans would see as the 1st area to strengthen. Seems fitting that most of the rumours over the years were about these positions, it's where we made our big signings.

Also worth noting that the HCs were won with Elsom, Hines, Thorn and Fardy. The last 2 years we upgrade a fading Fardy with Skelton, a lot of people would have thought maybe that's the difference that wins us a fifth star.