The Leinster Front Row preview 2021/22

[kendo90]

You’d hope Buckley stepping up to a senior deal, along with Barron, O’Byrne and scannell in place, that their hooker roster is nicely complete.
Big things expected of Buckley, why stall his development? A local lad will always pip an outsider in the long run too.

Assuming Munster is the only destination Nucifora is interested


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[Flash Gordon]

Yeah, I'd say the pressure will tell. First choice, more money and caps v's possibility of winning something shiny at the end of a season.

He's winning caps and has a chance of silverware at Leinster. We need 2 front rows and there will be no issue with game time at all and it will be good for Kelleher's development to feel the heat. From a development point of view Leinster is a the better environment to be in.

[hugonaut]

Yeah, I'd say the pressure will tell. First choice, more money and caps v's possibility of winning something shiny at the end of a season.

He can't get more money.

He's already on a senior deal, so there's no upper echelon of contract he can be offered. The provinces aren't allowed to compete with each other on price for a player on the same contract level, as the IRFU are the overall paymasters – it makes no sense to have a bidding war between two entities that they are financially responsible for. Another province can match what he is being offered and then offer an incentive like a guaranteed number of starts or guaranteed European starts or guaranteed minutes.

If a player is on an academy contract [basic €8k], then another province can offer him a development contract [basic €25k]. If a player is on a development deal, then another province can offer him a senior contract [€40k starting – might be more now]. If a player is on a senior contract [say €80k], then another province can only offer him €80k. They can't offer €100k.

[the spoofer]

Yeah, I'd say the pressure will tell. First choice, more money and caps v's possibility of winning something shiny at the end of a season.

He can't get more money.

He's already on a senior deal, so there's no upper echelon of contract he can be offered. The provinces aren't allowed to compete with each other on price for a player on the same contract level, as the IRFU are the overall paymasters – it makes no sense to have a bidding war between two entities that they are financially responsible for. Another province can match what he is being offered and then offer an incentive like a guaranteed number of starts or guaranteed European starts or guaranteed minutes.

If a player is on an academy contract [basic €8k], then another province can offer him a development contract [basic €25k]. If a player is on a development deal, then another province can offer him a senior contract [€40k starting – might be more now]. If a player is on a senior contract [say €80k], then another province can only offer him €80k. They can't offer €100k.

I was led to believe that the financial rewards for being a starter are considerably greater. Not sure does this relate to match fees etc.

[ronk]

He can't get more money.

The IRFU can stop Munster from offering more money, if they want. And they can stop us matching Munster's offer, if they want.

And if they want they can pre-approve a huge contract extension that gets announced in November.

If the IRFU decide they want it then we're on our own and Sheehan's only option is to flat out refuse and look overseas for leverage. They can't afford him to call if they bluff.

[Oldschool]

Yeah, I'd say the pressure will tell. First choice, more money and caps v's possibility of winning something shiny at the end of a season.

He's winning caps and has a chance of silverware at Leinster. We need 2 front rows and there will be no issue with game time at all and it will be good for Kelleher's development to feel the heat. From a development point of view Leinster is a the better environment to be in.

Your last sentence is worthy of a bit of analysis.
Firstly it's spot on.
However at what point does the IRFU/Nucifora/Other provinces and perhaps even Leinster figure out.
A. That a player is no longer a development project but the finished product (more or less)
B. Subsequent to A That one province supplying the first choice and back up to the national team is not necessarily good for the national team or the province.

So we could see a change whereby younger but established players become the targets (for a move) rather than even younger players of potential.

[Ruckedtobits]

Yeah, I'd say the pressure will tell. First choice, more money and caps v's possibility of winning something shiny at the end of a season.

He's winning caps and has a chance of silverware at Leinster. We need 2 front rows and there will be no issue with game time at all and it will be good for Kelleher's development to feel the heat. From a development point of view Leinster is a the better environment to be in.

Your last sentence is worthy of a bit of analysis.
Firstly it's spot on.
However at what point does the IRFU/Nucifora/Other provinces and perhaps even Leinster figure out.
A. That a player is no longer a development project but the finished product (more or less)
B. Subsequent to A That one province supplying the first choice and back up to the national team is not necessarily good for the national team or the province.

So we could see a change whereby younger but established players become the targets (for a move) rather than even younger players of potential.

There was a formal written protocol in place governing movement between Provinces which was furiously debated by Professional Game Board and approved by IRFU Committee. However, that pre-dates Lucifora and he may have amended or scrapped the protocol. Given some of the player movements and signings and apparent 'favouritism' of Munster over the past three years, it certainly wouldn't surprise me if Lucifora rode roughshod over a formal IRFU agreement between Provinces.

However, if Sheehan was encouraged by the same man to move South, Leinster Board and probably their Head Coach and CEO would go ballistic and probably public and the row would certainly escalate to the 'blazers' I.e. the IRFU Committee. Many fans consider they are no longer important, but, in effect, they are the Non-Executive Directors (NEDs) of the IRFU. If they get involved, this will become a real dog-fight and Leinster will not roll over to have it's tummy tickled. It nearly happened over Carbury, but Joe's "support" of that move trumped any objections. This time round, it would be different.

[ronk]

It's not about development. It's a hard sell to boost Munster. It's only happening because Munster wouldn't spend their own money on a big name hooker, they never have before. They won't now if they don't get him. This is opportunistic rather than priority. The risk to Sheehan is exponentially higher if Munster are just gambling with someone else's money (& career).

It might not be ideal that Leinster supply both players in a position but it's not like Casey and Murray is a problem. Or renewing Snyman ahead of Ahern is intolerable.

Moving a player is a worse alternative that's batting 0.000.

Sheehan specially has issues in his game that will take a while to iron out. He needs to work on his fundamentals, he throws wild offloads. His upside means he plays anyway and no amount of training would have most hookers beating wingers with jumpcuts. When Beirne played for Scarlets he played an up tempo offloading game that's mostly just a memory. You won't throw many successful offloads if there's no one on your shoulder.

[ronk]

Many fans consider they are no longer important, but, in effect, they are the Non-Executive Directors (NEDs) of the IRFU. If they get involved, this will become a real dog-fight and Leinster will not roll over to have it's tummy tickled.

Works both ways. Lots of influential Munster fans around and they've done next to nothing to rein in most of the excesses. Munster were confident enough to leak that the IRFU blocked Pieter-Steph du Tout.

Open warfare by Leo would just get him sacked.

Munster are more at risk than Leinster are and there'd be a lot of buzz around such an exciting player. But it's a sunk cost fallacy, the risk isn't decline in Leinster, it's a missed opportunity to grow.

Some of the assistance that Munster are getting would get Leinster enough to be dominant in Europe again. Return Beirne to Leinster instead of Munster, keep Carbery. Allow Casey to leave rather than allow the counter offer, a NIQ utility back. No last minute tighthead poaching during an injury crisis. Not exactly talking about top dollar world cup winners at the peak of their careers. Payback on a small incremental investment would be fast.

[elephantman]

Yeah, I'd say the pressure will tell. First choice, more money and caps v's possibility of winning something shiny at the end of a season.

Yeah the IRFU pressure is the issue.

The IRFU tried to pressure Andrew Porter to move earlier in his career and Porter refused. Hopefully Sheehan does the same.

I have nothing good to say about David Nucifora in a professional capacity. The man thought Johann van Graan was worthy of a two year extension. Says it all really.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Is this speculation actually based on anything? I didn’t hear what Murray K said but I haven’t seen any direct quote and it doesn’t seem to have gained any traction anywhere. Unless I’m missing something I can’t see anything at all when I search Twitter. There’s nowhere else I really look for rugby stuff but haven’t heard a thing and none of my real world mates mentioned it.

[elephantman]

Is this speculation actually based on anything? I didn’t hear what Murray K said but I haven’t seen any direct quote and it doesn’t seem to have gained any traction anywhere. Unless I’m missing something I can’t see anything at all when I search Twitter. There’s nowhere else I really look for rugby stuff but haven’t heard a thing and none of my real world mates mentioned it.

I agree. Murray K mentioned it in a vague “wouldn’t Munster love to get their hands on Sheehan” type of way. Well of course they would!

For all we know Dan Sheehan may have absolutely no intention of going anywhere and will back himself to overtake Kelleher for club and country. I sincerely hope he does.

[Oldschoolsocks]

I think this rumour was kicked off by m#1 tbh

[Oldschoolsocks]

Here’s the offending article
https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/dan-shee ... ter-245862

Apparently Greg O’Shea floated the idea on a podcast with Darren Cave with "Do you know what I was thinking about Sheehan?" Greg O'Shea began, during a look ahead to the rugby year ahead. "Why don't Munster bring him down?" …

[Laighin Break]

I think this rumour was kicked off by m#1 tbh

Don't think he's commented once on the topic in this thread! Seems to be a few posters speculating

[Oldschoolsocks]

I think this rumour was kicked off by m#1 tbh

Don't think he's commented once on the topic in this thread! Seems to be a few posters speculating

https://www.leinsterfans.com/forum/view ... 83#p791883

[Peg Leg]

I think this rumour was kicked off by m#1 tbh

Don't think he's commented once on the topic in this thread! Seems to be a few posters speculating

https://www.leinsterfans.com/forum/view ... 83#p791883

He was talking about inhaler taking over as head coach, no?

[Oldschoolsocks]

Don't think he's commented once on the topic in this thread! Seems to be a few posters speculating

https://www.leinsterfans.com/forum/view ... 83#p791883

He was talking about inhaler taking over as head coach, no?

I thought I linked to the post where he said

“Rumours doing the rounds down here that there are discussions ongoing to have Sheehan move to Munster for next season.”

[Peg Leg]

https://www.leinsterfans.com/forum/view ... 83#p791883

He was talking about inhaler taking over as head coach, no?

I thought I linked to the post where he said

“Rumours doing the rounds down here that there are discussions ongoing to have Sheehan move to Munster for next season.”

I thought you used to have a sense of humour?

[Oldschoolsocks]

He was talking about inhaler taking over as head coach, no?

I thought I linked to the post where he said

“Rumours doing the rounds down here that there are discussions ongoing to have Sheehan move to Munster for next season.”

I thought you used to have a sense of humour?

I used to, I’m just slow on the uptake,