United Rugby Championship

[FLIP]

this gap in the schedule is a load of cr@p.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4710208

There was talk of an URC U23 or reserve league. I think the URC are involved in a new tournament involving Cheetahs, a Romanian side, Spanish side, Sharks and Stormers. Maybe they're working on a B competition.


The gap certainly isn't helpful. Interesting how there are now only 22 guaranteed games per season compared to 27 before. Plenty of players going to get itchy feet.

I was talking this through with one of the other Moles last light. It is going to have more of an affect on Leinster players moving than anything Nucifora has ever done. There are simply way fewer games to go around – as Dropkick has point out, we are down 5 regular season games: 5 games x 15 positions x 80 minutes = 6000mins

Given that 800mins is a good median figure for a squad player to make over the course of a season (10 [60 min games as starter] + 10 [20 mins games as a sub] = 800 mins) we are going to be +7.5 players overweight compared to last year in terms of squad numbers.

The wider Irish rugby public probably doesn't realise how much it has relied on the international block league games to progress young players [and to be blunt, particularly young Leinster players, but also young Ulster players in the last couple of seasons under MacFarland] in the professional game. It has been a really good structure for the game in our country. We have been playing around six teams worth of players each season instead of four: Leinster, Munster, Ulster, Connacht ... and then Leinster second string and a joint Munster/Ulster second string.

Lads like Scott Penny, Josh Murphy and Jimmy O'Brien got loads of minutes last year; that is very likely not going to happen this year. Where are the games for a player like Tommy O'Brien going to come from?

This is a competition which badly needs a minor league. The idea that the AIL is going to absorb 20+ players per province every weekend [who will only play the game, and not actually train with their amateur club all week] or that provincial set-ups can afford to pay guys to just to train and play in five or six matches per season [or that they would stick around to do so, rather than going to England] is pie in the sky stuff.

1) There should be an Espoirs League;
2) it should be U24 [with one forward and one back unrestricted by age limit];
3) entrance to games should be included on your season ticket;
4) it should include national teams from Spain, Portugal, Holland and Belgium [under club guises, if required];
5) it should be used by World Rugby as a competition for trialing new laws.

IS IT SO MUCH TO ASK?

Agree with all except point 5 - for prime development players in the level one down from the senior league need to be playing the same laws as in the senior league where they would be promoted to, potentially midseason. Imagine if you will a situation where 50:22 was in lower development league but not senior league. A up and coming player may kick the ball away where they wouldn't get as much value from it, or take a higher risk for a defensive move ala Adam Byrne which may not pay off.

[riocard911]

this gap in the schedule is a load of cr@p.

https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4710208

There was talk of an URC U23 or reserve league. I think the URC are involved in a new tournament involving Cheetahs, a Romanian side, Spanish side, Sharks and Stormers. Maybe they're working on a B competition.


The gap certainly isn't helpful. Interesting how there are now only 22 guaranteed games per season compared to 27 before. Plenty of players going to get itchy feet.

I was talking this through with one of the other Moles last light. It is going to have more of an affect on Leinster players moving than anything Nucifora has ever done. There are simply way fewer games to go around – as Dropkick has point out, we are down 5 regular season games: 5 games x 15 positions x 80 minutes = 6000mins

Given that 800mins is a good median figure for a squad player to make over the course of a season (10 [60 min games as starter] + 10 [20 mins games as a sub] = 800 mins) we are going to be +7.5 players overweight compared to last year in terms of squad numbers.

The wider Irish rugby public probably doesn't realise how much it has relied on the international block league games to progress young players [and to be blunt, particularly young Leinster players, but also young Ulster players in the last couple of seasons under MacFarland] in the professional game. It has been a really good structure for the game in our country. We have been playing around six teams worth of players each season instead of four: Leinster, Munster, Ulster, Connacht ... and then Leinster second string and a joint Munster/Ulster second string.

Lads like Scott Penny, Josh Murphy and Jimmy O'Brien got loads of minutes last year; that is very likely not going to happen this year. Where are the games for a player like Tommy O'Brien going to come from?

This is a competition which badly needs a minor league. The idea that the AIL is going to absorb 20+ players per province every weekend [who will only play the game, and not actually train with their amateur club all week] or that provincial set-ups can afford to pay guys to just to train and play in five or six matches per season [or that they would stick around to do so, rather than going to England] is pie in the sky stuff.

1) There should be an Espoirs League;
2) it should be U24 [with one forward and one back unrestricted by age limit];
3) entrance to games should be included on your season ticket;
4) it should include national teams from Spain, Portugal, Holland and Belgium [under club guises, if required];
5) it should be used by World Rugby as a competition for trialing new laws.

IS IT SO MUCH TO ASK?

Thanks for spelling out so starkly the knock-on effects for Leinster as a result of the reduction in the number of URC matches compared to Pro14, Hugonaut. In answer to your question, I think no, it isn't too much to ask at all. Dropkick earlier on on this thread indicated, that the URC were thinking of setting up such a B league. Hopefully something will come of that - the sooner, the better.

[ronk]

If it's not temporary and they don't just settle for fewer games with smaller squads (let's call it the NFL approach) then one model would be the Anglo Welsh Cup. It's still nominally the firsts and awards caps which makes it relevant for things like TV, season tickets, Covid restrictions etc. But it's also more clearly different from URC so it doesn't leave URC subject to the old tired debasement complaints.

Not sure how to get there. Interpros would be too big if they were official first team. Lots of options for everything from the French D2 to the Cara Cup. Can't think of one that stands out.

Or they could go the complete opposite direction. There's now no non interpro (and non HC) game left in 2021. There are 4 such games before the SA tour in late April. It'd almost be easier to send lads back to their clubs by default and recall them as needed. Then make a proper go of club rugby.

Or build knock out rugby into the calendar and maybe auto opt-in fans for some of the knock outs.

[LeinsterLeader]

Like to think the provinces could have organized something similar. Maybe in the future?

https://www.scarlets.wales/article/scar ... ent-games/

[mildlyinterested]

Like to think the provinces could have organized something similar. Maybe in the future?

https://www.scarlets.wales/article/scar ... ent-games/

Leinster A are playing Ulster A in two weeks time.

same goes for Connacht and Munster.

[LeinsterLeader]

Do you know when and where?

[mildlyinterested]

Do you know when and where?

hasn't been announced yet, its the weekend of the NZ match is all I know.

[LeinsterLeader]

To be honest, I have my doubts that this won't be the same as what the Scarlets have set up, at all, but lets give them the benefit of the doubt and see what comes of it.

[dropkick]

https://mobile.twitter.com/DjRossouw87/ ... 7185923074


According to him there will be a new B competition under the URC umbrella called the United Rugby Shield and involve teams from Barcelona, Madrid ( made up of plenty of argentines), North Wales, Central Scotland, Italian side, Cheetahs and other teams. Also mentions promotion relegation which I would be in favour of but cant see happening for a while.

[JB1973]

Like to think the provinces could have organized something similar. Maybe in the future?

https://www.scarlets.wales/article/scar ... ent-games/

The Ospreys a team played Ealing trailfinders a team last weekend, we have got the scarlets a and Exeter a then in the following weeks

It was very much a team of youngsters and 3rd choices but it's better than nothing and is certainly a good vehicle for players returning from injury to get game time

A Gap of 4 weeks between games mid season does no body any favours imo

[LeinsterLeader]

Like to think the provinces could have organized something similar. Maybe in the future?

https://www.scarlets.wales/article/scar ... ent-games/

The Ospreys a team played Ealing trailfinders a team last weekend, we have got the scarlets a and Exeter a then in the following weeks

It was very much a team of youngsters and 3rd choices but it's better than nothing and is certainly a good vehicle for players returning from injury to get game time

A Gap of 4 weeks between games mid season does no body any favours imo

I think you're right mate and we would have enough players not involved in the Internationals, at all of the provinces here to organize an Irish Provincial Cup or something to that effect (the addition of a trophy would give the games an extra bite I would have thought), during the break without too much travel.

All that said I have no Idea of the cost of these things or the Logistics in relation to setting them up so I'm probably be talking through my hat. However, I suspect there just isn't an appetite for it amongst at least some of the provinces.

[neill_m]

Ulster A v Leinster A at Banbridge RFC on Friday 3pm KO. Adults £5, Kids free.

https://mailchi.mp/banbridgerfc/banbrid ... r-10063377

[JB1973]

Ospreys a gave the scarlets a good hiding on Friday night down in Llanelli, hopefully the senior side can do the same next time we play them

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Cardiff and Scarlets both trying to get back from SA ASAP. This is going to be a right mess.

[blockhead]

Cardiff and Scarlets both trying to get back from SA ASAP. This is going to be a right mess.

Oh dear.

[Ruckedtobits]

Benetton v Glasgow on a sunny afternoon with no rain or wind is like a game from 2019 time-warp. Both teams have scored two tries but three of the four were from prolonged pickit-and-drive phases. Compared to Connacht last night this is sleep inducing garbage on Premier Sports.

[Keith]

Benetton v Glasgow on a sunny afternoon with no rain or wind is like a game from 2019 time-warp. Both teams have scored two tries but three of the four were from prolonged pickit-and-drive phases. Compared to Connacht last night this is sleep inducing garbage on Premier Sports.

Very exciting end though. Fair play to Marin for nailing that last pen, only 19 years old.

[Fan with smartphone]

Basham injured in first 5 minutes for Dragons v Edinburgh. That’s Ryan, Conan, Henderson, Basham all early injuries or late withdrawals in the last 2 games I’ve watched. I’m really not sure this less games-play the stars more idea is wise. Maybe I’m just a a curmudgeon - very possible- but am not sure it’s good long term selectioning either.

[jezzer]

The Barcelona Diables - a newly formed franchise team hoping to compete in the new sub competition to the URC (or frankly any other comp that will have them i think) were down in Bloemfontein for an invitational tourney. Cheetahs, W Province, Sharks were there and also invited a Romanian team called Baia Mare.

3 of the Diables caught covid and are stuck there but it was a start to hopefully something productive for emerging teams and Spain in particular. 10 years ago or more they tried to set up a Spanish semi pro league but it fell flat in the crisis.

This time the Diables are going it alone and draw players from the clubs in the greater Bcn area, including my local club, whose coach is managing the Diables.

They got hockeyed in SA, but it's a start. The standard here is growing all the time.

[dropkick]

Basham injured in first 5 minutes for Dragons v Edinburgh. That’s Ryan, Conan, Henderson, Basham all early injuries or late withdrawals in the last 2 games I’ve watched. I’m really not sure this less games-play the stars more idea is wise. Maybe I’m just a a curmudgeon - very possible- but am not sure it’s good long term selectioning either.

It depends on how often players play. I'm sure Basham started every game for Wales this autumn and probably was starting most or all the Dragons 5 games before that.


Conan and Henderson have always picked up injuries. Henderson didnt play much in the autumn internationals.