Leinster v. Ulster, Rainbow Cup, Fri 14 May, 20.15hrs

[wixfjord]

A 32 year old who left us after some success but some clear flaws in his game, struggled to cement a starting place in two mid table Top 14 French & Premiership sides and has had a very up and down season resulting in him now being third in line behind Burns & Lowry at 10.

If you examine that profile objectively, I've no idea why we'd want to sign a player like that. He'd be sitting behind Sexton, Ross, Harry, Frawley and competing with Hawkshaw for gametime.

Has he played 12 or 15 at all in the last few years either?

He played a lot of games for those teams and as you probably know the guys who were rivals for his spot were pretty decent to say the least. He also has 31 caps for Ireland. The view that he's not good enough to be a squad player I wouldn't agree with. Realistically if we are going to sign a utility back it's going to be someone with his profile. He's currently a better player than at least 3 of that list in my view (and at least 3 of them are injured a lot....) and he covers a number of positions. We are talking squad player here, we are currently lining up Garry Ringrose as a reserve outhalf.

Hold on, nobody saying he's not good enough to be a squad player at all. If he was free then great.

But like he's not coming for free! It would be a totally unnecessary signing. When was the last time he got a run of games at 12/15 by the way?

The rose tinted glasses around Madser tend to blind people at times. This is the fourth club he has been at that he hasn't looked like being a starting 10 for. He was out of the Bristol 23 last year and swapped in and out with Simon Hickey in Bordeaux. He has now fallen out of the Ulster 23 too for whatever reason.

Madigan is a better player than 21 year old Hawkshaw (who can actually cover 12).
But give me Harry, Ross or Ciaran over him any day.

And that's ignoring the fact they're all way younger.

[cormac]

It was Schmidt who signed Gopperth. Signing was announced on 29 March 2013.

[wixfjord]

Still think the signing of Gopperth was MOC's biggest mistake. As a club we turned our back on Mads, a home grown lad with huge potential, but with workons, in favour of a middle of the road kiwi 10 who while good enough to win the Pro 12 was never going to win Europe.

Sweet jesus. How do people still have this opinion like!

Just look at the respective careers of these two guys.

There's only one 'middle of the road' 10 there and it ain't the guy who has won Premiership player of the year, numerous golden boots and has been a starting 10 at all the clubs he has played at throughout his career.

[LeinsterLeader]

Madigan looked fine from the outside but fell down the pecking order (sometimes falling hard, and usually with controversy) at Leinster, Bordeaux, Bristol and now Ulster.

I wish him success, but I wouldn't want us to take a chance on him.

What controversies

https://www.balls.ie/rugby/ian-madigan-3-359625

I know this is off the point some what but If Alannis Morrisette is looking for some more exapmples for her next version of "Ironic...."

"Paddy Jackson might have an interesting interpretation of that over-quoted Wildean line that it's better to be talked about than not talked about at all. Despite starting and at times starring in this year's Six Nations for Ireland, Jackson is arguably one of the least talked about out-halves in Irish rugby at the moment. "

[carlow man]

A 32 year old who left us after some success but some clear flaws in his game, struggled to cement a starting place in two mid table Top 14 French & Premiership sides and has had a very up and down season resulting in him now being third in line behind Burns & Lowry at 10.

If you examine that profile objectively, I've no idea why we'd want to sign a player like that. He'd be sitting behind Sexton, Ross, Harry, Frawley and competing with Hawkshaw for gametime.

Has he played 12 or 15 at all in the last few years either?

He played a lot of games for those teams and as you probably know the guys who were rivals for his spot were pretty decent to say the least. He also has 31 caps for Ireland. The view that he's not good enough to be a squad player I wouldn't agree with. Realistically if we are going to sign a utility back it's going to be someone with his profile. He's currently a better player than at least 3 of that list in my view (and at least 3 of them are injured a lot....) and he covers a number of positions. We are talking squad player here, we are currently lining up Garry Ringrose as a reserve outhalf.

Completely agree. We prob need to sign a 10 on a short term deal. If ross goes down then we are in deep ****. Harry is still in the mix but his injury record of late doesn't inspire huge confidence that he can step in and play week in week out. Js will still be managed for the sake of his health and the prolong his career. Frawley is out of the equation completely as the poor lad hasn't an ounce of luck in staying fit. That leaves us with hawkshaw who I really like but is he really good enough to be our 10 to steer the ship over the next few months? If mads came in on a 3 month deal or some other player then I would welcome it.

[carlow man]

A 32 year old who left us after some success but some clear flaws in his game, struggled to cement a starting place in two mid table Top 14 French & Premiership sides and has had a very up and down season resulting in him now being third in line behind Burns & Lowry at 10.

If you examine that profile objectively, I've no idea why we'd want to sign a player like that. He'd be sitting behind Sexton, Ross, Harry, Frawley and competing with Hawkshaw for gametime.

Has he played 12 or 15 at all in the last few years either?

He played a lot of games for those teams and as you probably know the guys who were rivals for his spot were pretty decent to say the least. He also has 31 caps for Ireland. The view that he's not good enough to be a squad player I wouldn't agree with. Realistically if we are going to sign a utility back it's going to be someone with his profile. He's currently a better player than at least 3 of that list in my view (and at least 3 of them are injured a lot....) and he covers a number of positions. We are talking squad player here, we are currently lining up Garry Ringrose as a reserve outhalf.

[Flash Gordon]

Still think the signing of Gopperth was MOC's biggest mistake. As a club we turned our back on Mads, a home grown lad with huge potential, but with workons, in favour of a middle of the road kiwi 10 who while good enough to win the Pro 12 was never going to win Europe.

Sweet jesus. How do people still have this opinion like!

Just look at the respective careers of these two guys.

There's only one 'middle of the road' 10 there and it ain't the guy who has won Premiership player of the year, numerous golden boots and has been a starting 10 at all the clubs he has played at throughout his career.

Whatever else about Madigan's abilities you can't fault his kicking, he's probably been a better kicker than Sexton over the years. I don't want to have a go at Gopperth because he's a good player but we signed him from Newcastle after he'd been playing in the second tier of English rugby and he never got remotely close to winning an international cap. Madigan has 31 caps for for Ireland and he was probably on twice the money Gopperth. To claim he is the "middle of the road" player in that comparison isn't really fair in my view.

To be fair not sure we turned our back on Madigan, he could have stayed an continued to develop and play for his place and win Ireland caps but he chose to leave.

Anyway, that ship has sailed I was just wondering if he could do a job for us now as a squad player which I think he could!

[LeinsterLeader]

Jaysus that's a strong looking team

[joooooe]

Jaysus that's a strong looking team

Leinster Rugby (caps in brackets):

15. Jimmy O’Brien (32)
14. Jordan Larmour (59)
13. Garry Ringrose (83)
12. Robbie Henshaw (56)
11. Dave Kearney (168)
10. Ross Byrne (101)
9. Luke McGrath (148) CAPTAIN
1. Cian Healy (229)
2. Seán Cronin (194)
3. Tadhg Furlong (113)
4. Ryan Baird (24)
5. James Ryan (47)
6. Josh Murphy (47)
7. Josh van der Flier (95)
8. Caelan Doris (37)

16. Rónan Kelleher (22)
17. Michael Milne (14)
18. Michael Bent (156)
19. Devin Toner (264)
20. Jack Conan (104)
21. Cormac Foley (1)
22. Rory O’Loughlin (84)
23. Tommy O’Brien (8)

Referee: Mike Adamson (SRU)

[joooooe]

Great to see Caelan Doris back.

And interesting that Cormac Foley is picked on the bench. I suspect we may have seen the last of Hugh O'Sullivan and Rowan Osborne in blue.

[joooooe]

Ulster team to play Leinster Rugby, Guinness PRO14 Rainbow Cup Round 3, Friday 14 May at the RDS Arena (kick-off 8.15pm, live on Premier Sports):

(15-9) Jacob Stockdale, Robert Baloucoune, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Craig Gilroy, Billy Burns, David Shanahan;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Marty Moore, Sam Carter, Iain Henderson (Capt.), Matty Rea, Sean Reidy, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: Brad Roberts, Callum Reid, Tom O’Toole, Alan O’Connor, Greg Jones, Nathan Doak, Ian Madigan, Rob Lyttle.

[LeinsterLeader]

Ulster team to play Leinster Rugby, Guinness PRO14 Rainbow Cup Round 3, Friday 14 May at the RDS Arena (kick-off 8.15pm, live on Premier Sports):

(15-9) Jacob Stockdale, Robert Baloucoune, James Hume, Stuart McCloskey, Craig Gilroy, Billy Burns, David Shanahan;

(1-8) Eric O’Sullivan, Rob Herring, Marty Moore, Sam Carter, Iain Henderson (Capt.), Matty Rea, Sean Reidy, Nick Timoney.

Replacements: Brad Roberts, Callum Reid, Tom O’Toole, Alan O’Connor, Greg Jones, Nathan Doak, Ian Madigan, Rob Lyttle.

Strong team from them too but I think out bench looks stronger (but I'm biased )

[the spoofer]

17 points favourites.

[riocard911]

Delighted to see Jimmy O'Brien and Caelan Dorris back. Ulster persist with Stockdale at 15 - hmmm... Madigan makes the Ulster bench - discuss.

[Blueberry]

Jeepers no messing about from Leocaster - obviously want to now poop on Munster's parade and have a go for the Rainbow Cup !!

While it means nothing major purely for amusement beating them in the final would be fun !!

Have paid no attention to how this tournament works but we have 5 games yes ?? and Top two sides play each other in the final is that it ?

So we can get 4/5 and no doubt Munster will have 5/5 so we have every chance of another Munster v Leinster dust off sometime in the summer ?

Treviso could be the fly in the ointment if they keep winning looking at the table.

[TMC]

Still think the signing of Gopperth was MOC's biggest mistake. As a club we turned our back on Mads, a home grown lad with huge potential, but with workons, in favour of a middle of the road kiwi 10 who while good enough to win the Pro 12 was never going to win Europe.

Sweet jesus. How do people still have this opinion like!

Just look at the respective careers of these two guys.

There's only one 'middle of the road' 10 there and it ain't the guy who has won Premiership player of the year, numerous golden boots and has been a starting 10 at all the clubs he has played at throughout his career.

Opinions are like backsides, we all have one. It's called a forum for a reason. My opinion formed by watching both play at the time.

I’d prefer the local Leinster lad over a mid-range blow in any day of the week and twice on a Sunday. If Leinster are signing a NIQ player they need to be several orders of magnitude better than the local option. Gopperth wasn't that. He was playing in the English Championship when he was signed. He was never capped by NZ, he wasn’t even a distant relation to the conversation. If he was that really good he would have been lined up to be capped by England after he arrived in Newcastle in 2009 - & they capped some seriously dicey players in the last decade. Gopperth was never in the conversation to be capped by England either as he just was not that good. Re POTY awards as a justification? I don’t know how much I’d base my arguments on who wins those gongs - Sexton has never been the Pro? Player of the year but he has been the best out-half who played in the competition for over a decade. In my opinion Madigan was a better player & the treatment he got at MOC's hands had a really negative impact on his career trajectory. It's an opinion, not a statement of fact. If you want to refute that opinion or try to change it with some relevant facts I'm all ears. Requesting intervention from a saccharine deity when people's opinions diverge from yours on a public forum doesn't leave me hopeful.

Stand corrected re who signed Gopperth – put that down to old age.

[limecat]

Match Preview

Well that was a strange game. After a terrible start, Leinster came back from 16-0 down to absolutely blow Connacht off the park. Now they face an Ulster side who lost both their opening two Rainbow Cup fixtures to Connacht and Ulster. Quite where that leaves them in the table is anyone's guess.

Read more...

[Oldschoolsocks]

Still think the signing of Gopperth was MOC's biggest mistake. As a club we turned our back on Mads, a home grown lad with huge potential, but with workons, in favour of a middle of the road kiwi 10 who while good enough to win the Pro 12 was never going to win Europe.

Sweet jesus. How do people still have this opinion like!

Just look at the respective careers of these two guys.

There's only one 'middle of the road' 10 there and it ain't the guy who has won Premiership player of the year, numerous golden boots and has been a starting 10 at all the clubs he has played at throughout his career.

Opinions are like backsides, we all have one. It's called a forum for a reason. My opinion formed by watching both play at the time.

I’d prefer the local Leinster lad over a mid-range blow in any day of the week and twice on a Sunday. If Leinster are signing a NIQ player they need to be several orders of magnitude better than the local option. Gopperth wasn't that. He was playing in the English Championship when he was signed. He was never capped by NZ, he wasn’t even a distant relation to the conversation. If he was that really good he would have been lined up to be capped by England after he arrived in Newcastle in 2009 - & they capped some seriously dicey players in the last decade. Gopperth was never in the conversation to be capped by England either as he just was not that good. Re POTY awards as a justification? I don’t know how much I’d base my arguments on who wins those gongs - Sexton has never been the Pro? Player of the year but he has been the best out-half who played in the competition for over a decade. In my opinion Madigan was a better player & the treatment he got at MOC's hands had a really negative impact on his career trajectory. It's an opinion, not a statement of fact. If you want to refute that opinion or try to change it with some relevant facts I'm all ears. Requesting intervention from a saccharine deity when people's opinions diverge from yours on a public forum doesn't leave me hopeful.

Stand corrected re who signed Gopperth – put that down to old age.

Jimmy Gopperth was objectively good, Madser should have been tried at 9.

the is all...

[mildlyinterested]

be great if Milne hit the ground running now he has returned from injury..

other than that... I guess I understand the desire to win the remaining games and potentially the tournament but it's all a bit meh after another european failure.

[munster#1]

Well there’s certainly no confusion now as to Leinster’s intentions in the Rainbow Cup.

Like Munster, Leinster have again selected a very strong squad showing that they are not treating this as a development tournament as hoped for by many supporters.

This is shaping up to be a cracking game, but I’d be surprised if Ulster can stay within 25 points if that Leinster team.