Leinster v. Ulster, Rainbow Cup, Fri 14 May, 20.15hrs

[Ruckedtobits]

The turnover from game to game is very substantial and as @BlueMan noted, leads to underperformance, particularly when opponents are better prepared in teamwork. It's part of the price we pay for the depth of our Squad and Leocaster's desire to give every member opportunities to fulfill their potential.

Couple this with JGP's prolonged absence and the dearth of fit out-halves and most team's would consider that we have survived fairly well, considering.

The target now must be to try to collect 10 points from the next two games and as many points as possible and then see what the others can do to each other.

[backrower8]

Ryan, Baird and Cronin in a front five doesn't strike me with huge confidence from a scrummaging POV personally.

Is this the same Ryan who was in packs that scrummaged as part of Grand Slam, Champions Cup and All Black matches and all of the first victorious 24 games of his career when he was 21? Are you now suggesting he was only ever a passenger in those scrummaging packs and not an integral part of them? Not to mention the 4 successful Pro14 finals?

Revisionism on the loose.

[wixfjord]

Ryan, Baird and Cronin in a front five doesn't strike me with huge confidence from a scrummaging POV personally.

Is this the same Ryan who was in packs that scrummaged as part of Grand Slam, Champions Cup and All Black matches and all of the first victorious 24 games of his career when he was 21? Are you now suggesting he was only ever a passenger in those scrummaging packs and not an integral part of them? Not to mention the 4 successful Pro14 finals?

Revisionism on the loose.

Ryan and Baird is a lightweight second row by anyone's standards.

Cracking strawman you built there though!

I know, it's disgraceful anyone would badmouth a Michael's goy like that.

[Logorrhea]

oh ffs is this going to turn into another we need to sign Etzebeth/DeJager/Kruis thread?

[ronk]

oh ffs is this going to turn into another we need to sign Etzebeth/DeJager/Kruis thread?

We need to have a backup plan because we are over-reliant on Michaels and I don't think they've started recruiting massive Pacific islanders yet.

[CiaranIrl]

Tell me more about this over reliance on Michael's. That sounds like an intriguing topic that has never been raised before.

[backrower8]

oh ffs is this going to turn into another we need to sign Etzebeth/DeJager/Kruis thread?

We need to have a backup plan because we are over-reliant on Michaels and I don't think they've started recruiting massive Pacific islanders yet.

+1

[backrower8]

Ryan, Baird and Cronin in a front five doesn't strike me with huge confidence from a scrummaging POV personally.

Is this the same Ryan who was in packs that scrummaged as part of Grand Slam, Champions Cup and All Black matches and all of the first victorious 24 games of his career when he was 21? Are you now suggesting he was only ever a passenger in those scrummaging packs and not an integral part of them? Not to mention the 4 successful Pro14 finals?

Revisionism on the loose.

Ryan and Baird is a lightweight second row by anyone's standards.

Cracking strawman you built there though!

I know, it's disgraceful anyone would badmouth a Michael's goy like that.

That Leinster combo is comparable to what most teams in these islands put out and also Wales, England, Scotland and the Lions.

Leinster still need a 2m 3cm (not a lighthouse) & 120-125kg Lock.

You disparaged 3 players. I responded about 1 of the 3 players. You play your usual hand.

There was no difference in pack weights last Friday. The issue was in how their pack scrummage regularly as a unit. Nugget, Baird and Doris haven't much match time under their belts (Baird in the row)

Only 1 Lions lock is heavier than Ja Ryan. AWJ and not by much. Overall he is about average weight across 24 locks in Tier 1 countries & leagues

Leinster still need a 2m 3cm (not a lighthouse) & 120-125kg Lock.

129kg: Paul Willemse
126kg: Lood de Jaeger + RG Snyman
125kg: Richie Arnold + Will Skelton
123kg: Eben Etzebeth
121kg: Salakaia-Loto 121kg
120kg: Jonny Gray + Patrick Tuipulotu + Brodie Retallick + Rory Arnold
118kg : AWJ
117kg: Adam Beard + Sam Whitelock
116kg: James Ryan & Ian Henderson
115kg: Maro Itoje
112kg: Jonny Hill + Swann Rebaddj + Franco Mostert
111kg: Courtney Lawes + Scott Barrett
198kg: Romain Sazy
107kg: Scott Cummings
Average Weight: 117.8kg

South Africa: Eben Etzebeth 123kg + Lood de Jaeger 126kg = 249kg

Toulouse: Richie Arnold 125kg + Rory Arnold 120kg = 245kg

France: Paul Willemse 129kg + Swann Rebaddj 112kg = 241kg

New Zealand: Brodie Retallick 120kg + Sam Whitelock 117kg = 237kg

Australia: Salakaia-Loto 121kg + Matthew Philip 115kg = 236kg

Wales: AWJ 118kg + Adam Beard 117kg = 235kg

B&I Lions: AWJ 118kg + Maro Itoje 115kg = 233kg

La Rochelle: Skelton 125kg + Sazy 108kg = 233kg

Ireland: Ian Henderson 116kg + James Ryan 116kg = 232kg

Exeter: Gray 120kg + Hill 112kg = 232kg

Leinster: James Ryan 116kg + Ryan Baird 112kg = 228kg

Bristol: Attwood 117kg + Vui 111kg = 228kg

England: Maro Itoje 115kg + Jonny Hill = 112kg = 227kg

Scotland: Jonny Gray 120kg + Scott Cummings 107kg = 227kg

[backrower8]

Ryan, Baird and Cronin in a front five doesn't strike me with huge confidence from a scrummaging POV personally.

Is this the same Ryan who was in packs that scrummaged as part of Grand Slam, Champions Cup and All Black matches and all of the first victorious 24 games of his career when he was 21? Are you now suggesting he was only ever a passenger in those scrummaging packs and not an integral part of them? Not to mention the 4 successful Pro14 finals?

Revisionism on the loose.

Ryan and Baird is a lightweight second row by anyone's standards.

Cracking strawman you built there though!

I know, it's disgraceful anyone would badmouth a Michael's goy like that.

That Leinster combo is comparable to what most teams in these islands put out and also Wales, England, Scotland and the Lions.

Leinster still need a 2m 3cm (not a lighthouse) & 120-125kg Lock.

You disparaged 3 players. I responded about 1 of the 3 players. You play your usual hand.

There was no difference in pack weights last Friday. The issue was in how their pack scrummage regularly as a unit. Nugget, Baird and Doris haven't much match time under their belts (Baird in the row)

Only 1 Lions lock is heavier than Ja Ryan. AWJ and not by much. Overall he is about average weight across 24 locks in Tier 1 countries & leagues

Leinster still need a 2m 3cm (not a lighthouse) & 120-125kg Lock.

129kg: Paul Willemse
126kg: Lood de Jaeger + RG Snyman
125kg: Richie Arnold + Will Skelton
123kg: Eben Etzebeth
121kg: Salakaia-Loto 121kg
120kg: Jonny Gray + Patrick Tuipulotu + Brodie Retallick + Rory Arnold
118kg : AWJ
117kg: Adam Beard + Sam Whitelock
116kg: James Ryan & Ian Henderson
115kg: Maro Itoje
112kg: Jonny Hill + Swann Rebaddj + Franco Mostert
111kg: Courtney Lawes + Scott Barrett
198kg: Romain Sazy
107kg: Scott Cummings
Average Weight: 117.8kg

South Africa: Eben Etzebeth 123kg + Lood de Jaeger 126kg = 249kg

Toulouse: Richie Arnold 125kg + Rory Arnold 120kg = 245kg

France: Paul Willemse 129kg + Swann Rebaddj 112kg = 241kg

New Zealand: Brodie Retallick 120kg + Sam Whitelock 117kg = 237kg

Australia: Salakaia-Loto 121kg + Matthew Philip 115kg = 236kg

Wales: AWJ 118kg + Adam Beard 117kg = 235kg

B&I Lions: AWJ 118kg + Maro Itoje 115kg = 233kg

La Rochelle: Skelton 125kg + Sazy 108kg = 233kg

Ireland: Ian Henderson 116kg + James Ryan 116kg = 232kg

Exeter: Gray 120kg + Hill 112kg = 232kg

Leinster: James Ryan 116kg + Ryan Baird 112kg = 228kg

Bristol: Attwood 117kg + Vui 111kg = 228kg

England: Maro Itoje 115kg + Jonny Hill = 112kg = 227kg

Scotland: Jonny Gray 120kg + Scott Cummings 107kg = 227kg

[wixfjord]

Look, it's simple.

Cronin is 35, looks jaded physically and scrummaging has always been the weakest part of his game.
Baird is 21, and has shown quite a few times this season that for all his carrying prowess, he's very much learning his trade as a second row.
Ryan is a fine second row, but not necessarily a renowned scrummager. In fact that's probably one of the weaker parts of his game and he has literally just been called out for his physicality by the Lions coach.

Like this would maybe make more sense if it didn't come directly after a poor scrum performance in which these three were all starting!

Also 'disparaged'

The quote you responded to was fairly punchy alright!

Ryan, Baird and Cronin in a front five doesn't strike me with huge confidence from a scrummaging POV personally.

Not sure how I wasn't banned for that level of player abuse!

It must get exhausting taking offence at everything.

I did see Baird high fiving an Ulster player as he came off the other night too. Shocking carrying on eh?!

[backrower8]

*Yawn

No issue with your observations on Cronin and Baird.

No credibility to your summation of Ryan's scrummaging given his track record of successful scrummaging performances he has been a part of.

No credibility for Gatland's flippant lines around physicality lobbed to feed the media and justify his decisions. Only Eddie Jones is more of a media whore than Gats.

Now if either Gatland or you said that Ryan is dying with the ball far too often, getting turned over and (until the Ulster game) his game numbers were dropping, then I might have been forced into agreeing with ye. But thankfully I was spared that.

I missed the 3 man scrum you keep referring to. When was that and was it a planned move, like a shortened lineout?

[Oldschoolsocks]

Is this the same Ryan who was in packs that scrummaged as part of Grand Slam, Champions Cup and All Black matches and all of the first victorious 24 games of his career when he was 21? Are you now suggesting he was only ever a passenger in those scrummaging packs and not an integral part of them? Not to mention the 4 successful Pro14 finals?

Revisionism on the loose.

Ryan and Baird is a lightweight second row by anyone's standards.

Cracking strawman you built there though!

I know, it's disgraceful anyone would badmouth a Michael's goy like that.

That Leinster combo is comparable to what most teams in these islands put out and also Wales, England, Scotland and the Lions.

Leinster still need a 2m 3cm (not a lighthouse) & 120-125kg Lock.

You disparaged 3 players. I responded about 1 of the 3 players. You play your usual hand.

There was no difference in pack weights last Friday. The issue was in how their pack scrummage regularly as a unit. Nugget, Baird and Doris haven't much match time under their belts (Baird in the row)

Only 1 Lions lock is heavier than Ja Ryan. AWJ and not by much. Overall he is about average weight across 24 locks in Tier 1 countries & leagues

Leinster still need a 2m 3cm (not a lighthouse) & 120-125kg Lock.

129kg: Paul Willemse
126kg: Lood de Jaeger + RG Snyman
125kg: Richie Arnold + Will Skelton
123kg: Eben Etzebeth
121kg: Salakaia-Loto 121kg
120kg: Jonny Gray + Patrick Tuipulotu + Brodie Retallick + Rory Arnold
118kg : AWJ
117kg: Adam Beard + Sam Whitelock
116kg: James Ryan & Ian Henderson
115kg: Maro Itoje
112kg: Jonny Hill + Swann Rebaddj + Franco Mostert
111kg: Courtney Lawes + Scott Barrett
198kg: Romain Sazy
107kg: Scott Cummings
Average Weight: 117.8kg

South Africa: Eben Etzebeth 123kg + Lood de Jaeger 126kg = 249kg

Toulouse: Richie Arnold 125kg + Rory Arnold 120kg = 245kg

France: Paul Willemse 129kg + Swann Rebaddj 112kg = 241kg

New Zealand: Brodie Retallick 120kg + Sam Whitelock 117kg = 237kg

Australia: Salakaia-Loto 121kg + Matthew Philip 115kg = 236kg

Wales: AWJ 118kg + Adam Beard 117kg = 235kg

B&I Lions: AWJ 118kg + Maro Itoje 115kg = 233kg

La Rochelle: Skelton 125kg + Sazy 108kg = 233kg

Ireland: Ian Henderson 116kg + James Ryan 116kg = 232kg

Exeter: Gray 120kg + Hill 112kg = 232kg

Leinster: James Ryan 116kg + Ryan Baird 112kg = 228kg

Bristol: Attwood 117kg + Vui 111kg = 228kg

England: Maro Itoje 115kg + Jonny Hill = 112kg = 227kg

Scotland: Jonny Gray 120kg + Scott Cummings 107kg = 227kg

Nothing like a good fact hunt

[Oldschoolsocks]

Look, it's simple.

Cronin is 35, looks jaded physically and scrummaging has always been the weakest part of his game.
Baird is 21, and has shown quite a few times this season that for all his carrying prowess, he's very much learning his trade as a second row.
Ryan is a fine second row, but not necessarily a renowned scrummager. In fact that's probably one of the weaker parts of his game and he has literally just been called out for his physicality by the Lions coach.

Like this would maybe make more sense if it didn't come directly after a poor scrum performance in which these three were all starting!

Also 'disparaged'

The quote you responded to was fairly punchy alright!

Ryan, Baird and Cronin in a front five doesn't strike me with huge confidence from a scrummaging POV personally.

Not sure how I wasn't banned for that level of player abuse!

It must get exhausting taking offence at everything.

I did see Baird high fiving an Ulster player as he came off the other night too. Shocking carrying on eh?!

Re being called out for his physicality by the Lions coach Gatland is not an honest commentator, he’s been spewing shite for decades now so you can’t use that as an argument.

[backrower8]

Re being called out for his physicality by the Lions coach Gatland is not an honest commentator, he’s been spewing shite for decades now so you can’t use that as an argument.

Ah the old Tag Team routine. I was wondering when you would pile in.

So you're saying I can't cite Gatland's lack of credibility in his public utterances...because he hasn't been credible for years. Brilliant!

This all goes back to whether or not people believe James Ryan is a strong scrummager. I believe he is. You guys don't. Let's leave it there.

[fourthirtythree]

Gatland's record as a coach speaks for itself and his selection decisions are, in general, justified by the results.

He does, and always did, talk an awful lot of old shite in the media however.. I would trust his opinions, I wouldn't trust that what he says is actually his opinion. It may be, or it may not. He's not exactly honest.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Re being called out for his physicality by the Lions coach Gatland is not an honest commentator, he’s been spewing shite for decades now so you can’t use that as an argument.

Ah the old Tag Team routine. I was wondering when you would pile in.

So you're saying I can't cite Gatland's lack of credibility in his public utterances...because he hasn't been credible for years. Brilliant!

This all goes back to whether or not people believe James Ryan is a strong scrummager. I believe he is. You guys don't. Let's leave it there.

OK, how about this. You can cite Gatland as much as you want but it adds no weight to your argument. The man is not honest in his statements, he objectively spews kilos of the brown stuff...

On Ryan’s scrummaging, I’m not sold on him being a strong tight head scrummager, he looks better wearing 4.

For Ireland Henderson should probably play 5 he has the raw strength, for Leinster I’m not sure what the solution is. I would like to see the 2 Ryans on the pitch at the same time.