Leinster Squad 21-22

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wixfjord
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by wixfjord »

From what I've seen of him in Lyon & Chiefs he's very powerful, has a huge boot and a somewhat unorthodox kicking style (loves a big bomb off the side of the boot).

He's absolutely a leader, but is pretty much the focal point of all attacks for Lyon and isn't a 'structured playmaker' type like a Frawley.

Might take a few games to get him into our structure but he'll be a big asset in tougher league games.
scentofgunpowder
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by scentofgunpowder »

hugonaut wrote: June 15th, 2022, 11:02 pm I think there's every reason to be excited about Baird at blindside. He has already played international rugby at second row, so it's a viable option for him in the future, but Andy Farrell going out of his way to name him as a backrow for the NZ tour [plus the emergence of McCarthy, which keeps cropping up in this diatribe] is a definitive direction. I think it's really good management ... you can shilly-shally about for a couple of years, or you can just make a call, accept that there will be a period of adjustment, and then in 15 months if it has worked, it has worked and if it hasn't, it hasn't.

I think it will work, because Baird has outstanding athletic ability. That's no news to anybody. Free-ing him up from the second row allows him to make better use of it. A lot of Irish fans for some reason take the p*ss out of Tom Croft, but he played in five Lions tests and was nominated for IRB World Player of the Year in 2009. He was a really f*cking good player! Baird has so many similar traits in terms of his open-field pace and his leaping ability.

As part of that argument, If you use him at blindside, the pack gets quite a lot bigger. You go from
No4 Molony [198cm/113kg] | No5 Ryan [201cm/115kg] | No6 Doris [193cm/106kg] to
No4 Ryan [201cm/115kg] | No5 Jenkins [203cm/124kg] | No6 Baird [198cm/113kg]

The scrum should become much stronger, and what you lose from having two jumping second rows you regain from having an excellent option at No6.

At LH, it's hard not to be excited by Basher Boyle. I think he's going to get a big selection push next season, a la Porter, Ryan and Deegan in 2017-18, Doris in 2018-19, Kelleher in 2019-20, Penny and Sheehan in 2020-21, McCarthy this season. It would fit in with what Leo does so well as a selector – he sees a bit of daylight and he backs a young player. There's always going to be some tough outings, but Boyle is a cert as a pro. I wouldn't worry about the listed weight of 106kg ... he passed me the other day in the RDS after the Bulls match and it seems outdated.
There is a lot of discourse amongst fans regarding whether Baird is a second or back row. It seems very restrictive to me to try and shoehorn him into a traditional forward role, and I'd be disappointed if his coaches (provincial and international) were looking at it in the same way. The guy is a phenomenal athlete, the likes of which Irish rugby literally may never again produce. Stick a number on his back, design a bespoke role with the intention of maximising his unique attributes, then pick the rest of your team around him.

Stick him in at centre for attacking scrums and shove Robbie Henshaw on the flank. Pick him at 9, put left and right scumhalves in the 11 and 14 shirts, and give Baird a free role. Get weird with it.

If you pick Baird at 6 and intend to use him in wider channels in attack, you probably want Doris instead of Conan at 8 as he's better carrying in tight areas. Perhaps you go for McCarthy over Molony in the row. If you stick with Baird in the second row, you can still redefine the role to accentuate his strengths, but perhaps you'd want Ruddock or Soroka at 6 to compensate.

I'm no expert on English rugby so forgive me if I'm talking hoop, but it seems to me that Exeter did something similar with Sam Simmonds. They wanted to pick him at 8 and use him on the edge, so they paired him with a big lump of a 6 in Dave Ewers, and seem to usually pick another 6/8 at openside, using Simmonds as a de facto 7 in defence.
joooooe
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by joooooe »

scentofgunpowder wrote: June 16th, 2022, 12:26 pm
Stick him in at centre for attacking scrums and shove Robbie Henshaw on the flank. Pick him at 9, put left and right scumhalves in the 11 and 14 shirts, and give Baird a free role. Get weird with it.
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ronk
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by ronk »

Ngatai isn't someone I remember seeing. Interesting that Leo appears to have been tracking him for a while so he appears to have a plan.

A large part of that plan is consolidating a few players minutes into 1 player.

My guess is that we'll see him or Frawley playing at 12 with Ringrose or Henshaw at 13. Then Henshaw playing at 12 with Ringrose or maybe Osbourne at 13. i.e. we'll see a Henshaw and Ringrose together a lot less.
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ronk
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by ronk »

If we look at the squad as per here we had 7 senior centres this year. https://all.rugby/club/leinster/squad

2 are left with Jimmy and Tommy O'Brien now back 3 players and the others gone. Frawley and Osbourne get redefined as centres and Ngatai comes in.

6 players covering the back 3 but with 3-4 in Irish squads. Not sure what stage Kearney will be back and Tommy O'Brien is gone for a big wedge of the season. Academy will provide cover.
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ronk
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by ronk »

And Osbourne will probably continue to get gametime in the back 3 too.
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Dave Cahill
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by Dave Cahill »

ronk wrote: June 16th, 2022, 3:45 pm And Osbourne will probably continue to get gametime in the back 3 too.
I think we'll see a lot of our outside backs wearing multiple numbers from 11 - 15 (and some at 10) over the course of the season. Positional flexibility with a broad range of competence will allow them to play an even more unstructured and thus defensively predictable game - basically Rinus Michels rugby
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ronk
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by ronk »

Dave Cahill wrote: June 16th, 2022, 4:09 pm
ronk wrote: June 16th, 2022, 3:45 pm And Osbourne will probably continue to get gametime in the back 3 too.
I think we'll see a lot of our outside backs wearing multiple numbers from 11 - 15 (and some at 10) over the course of the season. Positional flexibility with a broad range of competence will allow them to play an even more unstructured and thus defensively predictable game - basically Rinus Michels rugby
Jimmy O'Brien getting picked for the NZ tour helps there. It's the strongest signal Faz could have sent (except maybe Loughman) that he values passing skills everywhere.

The more people who can make reads and execute decisions the more pressure the defence is under to make decisions, to maintain match ups and to make tackles 1 on 1.
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munster#1
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by munster#1 »

:clap:
LeinsterLeader wrote: June 16th, 2022, 11:45 am
wixfjord wrote: June 16th, 2022, 11:09 am Ngatai signing confirmed.

Good capture, he's clearly a leader and will add power and a different option across our backline.

He's predominately a 12 but also plays 13/15 as well and will add a lot of power to our backline in the absence of Lowe/Henshaw.

With ROL, Byrne, COB, Hawkshaw off he's basically filling their minutes.
Don't know a lot about him myself but I did see this comment on Twitter from a guy who covers South African rugby so its probably fairly unbiased. Lets hope he's right......


Jared Wright
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Having watched him for years Charlie Ngatai has been consistently brilliant.

I'd argue the best back in every team has been in.

From Wellington to the Chiefs to Taranaki to the Maori All Blacks and Lyon.

Leinster have signed a world-class operator.

This is a very strange and not really something you would expect from Leinster.
Leinster already have 2 of Ireland’s top centres on their books, meaning that either Leinster have a master plan to move players around, or this is a relatively expensive luxury signing.

Saying that, I am now a lot more fearful of Leinster.
Leo and co seem to have moved away from their model of relying on the academy to fill squad positions with a sprinkling of signings in the starting team.
This signing, along Jenkins and Alaalatoa means that Leinster will have 3 NIE players on their books for the first time in a good while, and will inevitably mean that Leinster will be a much more formidable team.

Leinster have had a few lemons in their day, but the current crop of signings look to be very astute, high quality signings.
It is possible, injury permitted, that Leinster could have a HC match day 23 containing Alaalatoa, Jenkins, JGP, Henshaw, Ngatai, Lowe.
Those are 6 very good signings, 4 of whom are current internationals and 2 former, who massively strengthen the Leinster squad.

I just hope that Leinster don’t sign a quality LH to back up Porter, as that is the only weakness I can see with the Leinster squad.
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wixfjord
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by wixfjord »

It's getting less and less subtle M#1...
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by FLIP »

wixfjord wrote: June 17th, 2022, 9:49 am It's getting less and less subtle M#1...
TRK led concern trolling. The thread on reddit about the signing is also full of Munster fans doing the same.
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ronk
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by ronk »

Leinster have no chance of signing a non- IQ loosehead while Healy is the number 2 loosehead, and probably anyway given Byrne, even with Dooley leaving. Munster won't be allowed either, and that's okay.

Leo has talked about having an interest in Ngatai since 2014. He's clearly given it a lot of thought but he hasn't said what his plan is, or if he really has one.

Leinster managed the situation before where we had Fardy, Lowe and JGP and could only play 2, so it's happened. Ireland did a pretty good job of balancing Henshaw, Ringrose and Aki, partly because they've all been available at the same time so infrequently.

The new schedule needs smaller squads and probably a little more strength in a few areas. Leinster have shrunk their squad, so have Munster.

Leinster still mostly rely on the academy, the balance has changed a bit. It's mostly players who've been around for a while leaving, so there's as much if not more time for academy players. Time will tell though.
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munster#1
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by munster#1 »

wixfjord wrote: June 17th, 2022, 9:49 am It's getting less and less subtle M#1...
You have a very strange lack of trust in people and almost a need to be offended.

There is absolutely nothing negative to say about Leinster going to the market to sign players.
All teams do it, and if a team wants to win, it is the team with the best ability to identify weaknesses in their squad a plug them with quality that will come out on top.

If you think that there is anything to feel wound up about Leinster’s policies, then that is a reflection of you and not me.
“Everything is Legal until you are caught” does not mean that you are not breaking the laws, it simply means that players will play the ref, and will break the laws of the game if they believe they won’t, or until they do, get caught.
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by RoboProp »

ronk wrote: June 17th, 2022, 10:14 am Leinster have no chance of signing a non- IQ loosehead while Healy is the number 2 loosehead, and probably anyway given Byrne, even with Dooley leaving. Munster won't be allowed either, and that's okay.
If Milne can stay injury free next year can be his year to kick on. Fingers crossed.
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ronk
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by ronk »

True. Dooley moving might open a few opportunities if he's hit.

Good player. At risk of being forgotten a little with Boyle coming through.
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by RoboProp »

ronk wrote: June 17th, 2022, 1:15 pm True. Dooley moving might open a few opportunities if he's hit.

Good player. At risk of being forgotten a little with Boyle coming through.
Boyle definitely a good shout. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but the times I have seen Milne play I've thought to myself "this bloke has it"
I'm guessing Leo & co feel the same as they kept him even with his injury and Dooley went off to Connacht. Time will tell, I could be eating my words!
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fourthirtythree
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by fourthirtythree »

ronk wrote: June 17th, 2022, 10:14 am Leinster have no chance of signing a non- IQ loosehead while Healy is the number 2 loosehead, and probably anyway given Byrne, even with Dooley leaving. Munster won't be allowed either, and that's okay.

Leo has talked about having an interest in Ngatai since 2014. He's clearly given it a lot of thought but he hasn't said what his plan is, or if he really has one.

Leinster managed the situation before where we had Fardy, Lowe and JGP and could only play 2, so it's happened. Ireland did a pretty good job of balancing Henshaw, Ringrose and Aki, partly because they've all been available at the same time so infrequently.

The new schedule needs smaller squads and probably a little more strength in a few areas. Leinster have shrunk their squad, so have Munster.

Leinster still mostly rely on the academy, the balance has changed a bit. It's mostly players who've been around for a while leaving, so there's as much if not more time for academy players. Time will tell though.
I see Ngatai as being a nod from the IRFU that our top three centres will be unavailable quite a bit.

No loosehead because Ireland's second choice is also here and, want someone better? Develop one. I have hope that as with McCarthy that means IRFU and Leinster believe we have a chance of doing that. Ireland needs it.
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by elephantman »

Leinster haven’t had a second playmaker in the backs since Isa retired in 2018 and Isa played on the wing a fair bit where it’s more difficult to act as a second playmaker. I think Isa’s best position was 15 but he was brilliant everywhere and ended his Leinster career at 12.

Carbery played the second playmaker role very well when he played at 15 for Leinster. Obviously he left for Munster in 2018.

Ngatai is a brilliant player and gives Leinster that second playmaker that we have lacked for a few years now. He’s a brilliant signing, a type of player that we really need.

Frawley playing more at 12 gives Leinster that second playmaker but to my eyes Frawley looks the heir apparent to Sexton at 10. Harry Byrne may have something to say about that. It’s going to be interesting to see how that situation develops.
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by paddyor »

elephantman wrote: June 17th, 2022, 10:28 pm Leinster haven’t had a second playmaker in the backs since Isa retired in 2018 and Isa played on the wing a fair bit where it’s more difficult to act as a second playmaker. I think Isa’s best position was 15 but he was brilliant everywhere and ended his Leinster career at 12.

Carbery played the second playmaker role very well when he played at 15 for Leinster. Obviously he left for Munster in 2018.

Ngatai is a brilliant player and gives Leinster that second playmaker that we have lacked for a few years now. He’s a brilliant signing, a type of player that we really need.

Frawley playing more at 12 gives Leinster that second playmaker but to my eyes Frawley looks the heir apparent to Sexton at 10. Harry Byrne may have something to say about that. It’s going to be interesting to see how that situation develops.
Keenan has been a playmaker.
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Theleinsterlad
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by Theleinsterlad »

wixfjord wrote: June 17th, 2022, 9:49 am It's getting less and less subtle M#1...
+1
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