Leinster Squad 21-22

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the spoofer
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by the spoofer »

Congrats to Big Mike Alaalatoa who is selected as captain of Manu Samoa for the PNC in July.
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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

COB is off unfortunately. Poor fella, just absolutely terrible luck with injury and must have been a very tough time for him. Wish him all the best.

I guess with himself and ROL going Ngatai makes a lot of sense.
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by Blue Man »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote: June 5th, 2022, 4:29 pm COB is off unfortunately. Poor fella, just absolutely terrible luck with injury and must have been a very tough time for him. Wish him all the best.

I guess with himself and ROL going Ngatai makes a lot of sense.
Has COBs departure been confirmed? I’d be surprised if he’s moving to another club as if he’s physically able he’s a massive talent who can play 12 or 13 and brings serious physicality. My fear is he’ll have to hang up his boots.
I think we’re a bit light in terms of the depth chart across the 3/4s but will have to check one of Mildly’s tables to refresh my memory.
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Dave Cahill
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by Dave Cahill »

Blue Man wrote: June 6th, 2022, 10:19 pm
Has COBs departure been confirmed?
It was confirmed at the Leinster Ball at the weekend
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ronk
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by ronk »

Blue Man wrote: June 6th, 2022, 10:19 pm
LeRouxIsPHat wrote: June 5th, 2022, 4:29 pm COB is off unfortunately. Poor fella, just absolutely terrible luck with injury and must have been a very tough time for him. Wish him all the best.

I guess with himself and ROL going Ngatai makes a lot of sense.
Has COBs departure been confirmed? I’d be surprised if he’s moving to another club as if he’s physically able he’s a massive talent who can play 12 or 13 and brings serious physicality. My fear is he’ll have to hang up his boots.
I think we’re a bit light in terms of the depth chart across the 3/4s but will have to check one of Mildly’s tables to refresh my memory.
Sorry to see him leaving. So many injuries though. Hope nothing long term.


Depth chart looks better with this guy in it.
https://all.rugby/player/charlie-ngatai
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cormac
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by cormac »

We broke our own points record and tries scored in a single season again this year.

A total of 1,012 points scored with 136 tries, beating the previous total of 979 points and 132 tries in the 2018/19 season. Unsurprising, I guess, due to some of the blowout games we played in, scoring 50 points or more in 6* separate matches.

We also broke our record points and tries scored in a single European campaign with 364 points and 47 tries, smashing the previous records set in 2016/17 of 281 points and 36 tries.

* 89 v Montpellier, 76 v Glasgow, 64 v Bath, 61 v Benetton, 56 v Connacht and 50 v Scarlets.
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blockhead
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by blockhead »

cormac wrote: June 15th, 2022, 2:49 pm We broke our own points record and tries scored in a single season again this year.

A total of 1,012 points scored with 136 tries, beating the previous total of 979 points and 132 tries in the 2018/19 season. Unsurprising, I guess, due to some of the blowout games we played in, scoring 50 points or more in 6* separate matches.

We also broke our record points and tries scored in a single European campaign with 364 points and 47 tries, smashing the previous records set in 2016/17 of 281 points and 36 tries.

* 89 v Montpellier, 76 v Glasgow, 64 v Bath, 61 v Benetton, 56 v Connacht and 50 v Scarlets.
Good stats cormac.
Note that, and its not the first time, but our try rate is higher in Europe.
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hugonaut
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by hugonaut »

I have to say that losing those two matches at the end of the season has really sharpened the appetite for next season!

We brought a lot of really successful elements into our play this season that I hope we keep looking to use. Some of the blowout victories were gaudy scores, which I am a huge fan of – you're supposed to play to the whistle, and I am old enough to remember when Irish teams were regularly criticised for not being able to turn the screw "like the All Blacks would" when we were dominating games on the field but not on the scoreboard.

Ronk posted a comment in another thread from Andy Farrell about Joe McCarthy 'not being a tidy player' - a positive comment, in that he's not afraid to push the envelope or make a mistake. I think that's something that we can take on board for next season. I think a few players have already adopted a bit of that mindset, notably JVDF. Ringer showed something a bit different in the semi-final as well, quite a lot of offloads there that had me taking a sharp breath.

Another piece is that we're going to have a pretty big personnel change – Leavy forced to retire through injury; Dev and Cro retiring [of natural causes]; Pete Dooley, Josh Murphy, Adam Byrne and Hawkshaw off to Connacht; Locko and Jack Dunne to Exeter. I know that some of the lads were disappointed that they didn't get to send Dev and Cro off with a medal, but they got a great send-off with that Lansdowne Road win over Munster, and I think the timing has been managed well. Dev played in 14 games and Cro in 11; they played enough rugby to keep them needed, and not feel like they're seeing out time or blocking somebody else's progress.
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blockhead
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by blockhead »

hugonaut wrote: June 15th, 2022, 8:53 pm I have to say that losing those two matches at the end of the season has really sharpened the appetite for next season!

We brought a lot of really successful elements into our play this season that I hope we keep looking to use. Some of the blowout victories were gaudy scores, which I am a huge fan of – you're supposed to play to the whistle, and I am old enough to remember when Irish teams were regularly criticised for not being able to turn the screw "like the All Blacks would" when we were dominating games on the field but not on the scoreboard.

Ronk posted a comment in another thread from Andy Farrell about Joe McCarthy 'not being a tidy player' - a positive comment, in that he's not afraid to push the envelope or make a mistake. I think that's something that we can take on board for next season. I think a few players have already adopted a bit of that mindset, notably JVDF. Ringer showed something a bit different in the semi-final as well, quite a lot of offloads there that had me taking a sharp breath.

Another piece is that we're going to have a pretty big personnel change – Leavy forced to retire through injury; Dev and Cro retiring [of natural causes]; Pete Dooley, Josh Murphy, Adam Byrne and Hawkshaw off to Connacht; Locko and Jack Dunne to Exeter. I know that some of the lads were disappointed that they didn't get to send Dev and Cro off with a medal, but they got a great send-off with that Lansdowne Road win over Munster, and I think the timing has been managed well. Dev played in 14 games and Cro in 11; they played enough rugby to keep them needed, and not feel like they're seeing out time or blocking somebody else's progress.
Pity about Dev and Sean, sure. But they have had many a great day in Blue. Dev, probably the most decorated player in European rugby history.
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hugonaut
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by hugonaut »

I think the lads heading off to Connacht will give us a hard time in the Sportsground. Connacht will benefit from them. I think Dooley and Murphy will impact from the outset.

I have to say though that I am optimistic about the make-up of the pack going into next season. Joe McCarthy has been incredibly impressive for a second-year academy player ... he has pushed through much, much quicker than anybody could have realistically hoped for. He's close to the prototype of the lock that we are looking for: heavy-set, powerful and abrasive. We've never produced many of those. His rapid emergence makes Jason Jenkins more a piece of the picture than an unproven asset [which he is as a Leinster player] that we might otherwise be forced to rely on.

But I am optimistic about Jenkins too. From looking at his performances for Munster, he's got a lot of power and a good bit of football. He looks like a good athlete for such a big man, and our coaching staff have a proven ability to make good players into better players. Simple as that. From what I have seen, he doesn't have a great engine, but I would trade 80-minute workrate for 50-minute power in that particular position.

Ross Molony made his bones this year and has still got the best four or five years of his career ahead of him. Eight European Cup starts this year [8+0] compared to two starts over the previous six seasons [2+15]. He has made a big step up. Missing out on the Irish squad is galling, but it will be a driving force to him as well. He's a hard-headed lad.

That second row has really transformed quite quickly. About 13 months ago, our second row in the SF against La Rochelle was James Ryan and Dev starting with Fardy on the bench. This has been quite a transitional year in the pack - Porter switching to LH, Dan Sheehan into the matchday squads at hooker ahead of Cro and James Tracy; Mike Ala'alatoa coming into the squad at TH or sub-TH for 25 games; Molony promoted into the starting second row; Doris playing at blindside [before this season he had played 27 games at No8 and only five at No6].
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by ronk »

hugonaut wrote: June 15th, 2022, 8:53 pm We brought a lot of really successful elements into our play this season that I hope we keep looking to use.
2 great posts there. This is the big big thing we need to do.

We beat powerful teams like Montpellier, the Bulls (the first time), Leicester and Toulouse playing our game.

It's a formula that can win. Let's refine it rather than replace it.

The new laws gave us space, it's still there and we can be the ones to take it.

Squad wise we're settling into a smaller squad, and a more stable fixture list. That means we hopefully can blend more as we rotate. The RWC is a big one too. Faz has well established now that he doesn't respect pecking order within a province. He picks what he likes. He also hasn't picked older (even late 20s) provincial fringe players. One effect of that is that players aren't going to be listening to the provincial coach to the same extent.

The days of impress in URC, then impress in HC, then make a few squads, then get a few easy caps then get in for the big games aren't there anymore.
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by hugonaut »

I think there's every reason to be excited about Baird at blindside. He has already played international rugby at second row, so it's a viable option for him in the future, but Andy Farrell going out of his way to name him as a backrow for the NZ tour [plus the emergence of McCarthy, which keeps cropping up in this diatribe] is a definitive direction. I think it's really good management ... you can shilly-shally about for a couple of years, or you can just make a call, accept that there will be a period of adjustment, and then in 15 months if it has worked, it has worked and if it hasn't, it hasn't.

I think it will work, because Baird has outstanding athletic ability. That's no news to anybody. Free-ing him up from the second row allows him to make better use of it. A lot of Irish fans for some reason take the p*ss out of Tom Croft, but he played in five Lions tests and was nominated for IRB World Player of the Year in 2009. He was a really f*cking good player! Baird has so many similar traits in terms of his open-field pace and his leaping ability.

As part of that argument, If you use him at blindside, the pack gets quite a lot bigger. You go from
No4 Molony [198cm/113kg] | No5 Ryan [201cm/115kg] | No6 Doris [193cm/106kg] to
No4 Ryan [201cm/115kg] | No5 Jenkins [203cm/124kg] | No6 Baird [198cm/113kg]

The scrum should become much stronger, and what you lose from having two jumping second rows you regain from having an excellent option at No6.

At LH, it's hard not to be excited by Basher Boyle. I think he's going to get a big selection push next season, a la Porter, Ryan and Deegan in 2017-18, Doris in 2018-19, Kelleher in 2019-20, Penny and Sheehan in 2020-21, McCarthy this season. It would fit in with what Leo does so well as a selector – he sees a bit of daylight and he backs a young player. There's always going to be some tough outings, but Boyle is a cert as a pro. I wouldn't worry about the listed weight of 106kg ... he passed me the other day in the RDS after the Bulls match and it seems outdated.
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by ronk »

Where does Soroka fit in?
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ronk
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by ronk »

hugonaut wrote: June 15th, 2022, 11:02 pm A lot of Irish fans for some reason take the p*ss out of Tom Croft, but he played in five Lions tests and was nominated for IRB World Player of the Year in 2009. He was a really f*cking good player! Baird has so many similar traits in terms of his open-field pace and his leaping ability.
The blindsides of the day in Ireland were Ferris, Quinlan, Elsom. Everyone had different expectations.

All different players, I'm not sure if we really would have known how to use Croft. He's closer to POM and he's also a marmite player.

The 2009 tour was a funny one. High water mark for Munster and Cardiff with the squad announced before the HC semi. It was the one where Andy Powell was hyped up big time and exposed. Croft was hyped too, and sort of lumped in that way for Ireland fans. Which makes sense, if you wanted Ferris or Elsom and you got him instead.
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Dave Cahill
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by Dave Cahill »

If memory serves Croft didn't make the original squad to the surprise of a lot of the English rugby media, he was a replacement for Quinlan when he got banned. Munster supporters decided it was all a big conspiracy to get him on the tour and that filtered into the mainstream irish support somewhat
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by OTT »

Think Croft suffered from being the absolute opposite to everything the horribly magnificent Leicester pack had stood for over so many years. He wasn’t obnoxious, he wasn’t filthy, he wasn’t particularly hard, he didn’t spend the whole game not looking for the ball.

He loved to get his hands on the ball, played in wider channels, he became the new face of England’s more rounded game and seemed like a mild mannered individual in interviews.

If memory serves me he got a few bad injuries (a few shoulder reconstructions?) and concussions after that Lions tour in ‘09 and lived off reputation for a good few years as in he wasn’t the player he had been but he would still get built up pre big games by the British media for England and Leicester so it was an easy target on his back for fans and players of their opposition and England at the time were hit and miss themselves which added to the fun.

He would probably excel at Leinster today, think Baird has a lot more gas than Croft did at his peak.
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by leinsterforever »

Croft was pretty fast. I remember this run from him: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pS-kKqvWqiM
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by wixfjord »

Ngatai signing confirmed.

Good capture, he's clearly a leader and will add power and a different option across our backline.

He's predominately a 12 but also plays 13/15 as well and will add a lot of power to our backline in the absence of Lowe/Henshaw.

With ROL, Byrne, COB, Hawkshaw off he's basically filling their minutes.
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

I’d like us to develop another carrying 8. I know the back row changes a bit if Baird is seen as a 6, and you’ve got Soroka too, but I thought we lacked a carrier off the bench and that Doris and Conan were flogged a bit which added to them not being at their best in the last couple of games. Coombes making himself more important for Ireland would also help. Looking at how Kendellan stepped up for Munster makes me think Culhane could do the same from the start of the season.
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Re: Leinster Squad 21-22

Post by LeinsterLeader »

wixfjord wrote: June 16th, 2022, 11:09 am Ngatai signing confirmed.

Good capture, he's clearly a leader and will add power and a different option across our backline.

He's predominately a 12 but also plays 13/15 as well and will add a lot of power to our backline in the absence of Lowe/Henshaw.

With ROL, Byrne, COB, Hawkshaw off he's basically filling their minutes.
Don't know a lot about him myself but I did see this comment on Twitter from a guy who covers South African rugby so its probably fairly unbiased. Lets hope he's right......


Jared Wright
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Having watched him for years Charlie Ngatai has been consistently brilliant.

I'd argue the best back in every team has been in.

From Wellington to the Chiefs to Taranaki to the Maori All Blacks and Lyon.

Leinster have signed a world-class operator.
Last edited by LeinsterLeader on June 16th, 2022, 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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