Leinster Squad 21-22

[Lock9541]

The sad thing is I think a lot of players will want to leave due to the new format this season of no Leinster games during international break and no Leinster A competition. It’s not good for Irish rugby this new format in my opinion.

[Oldschoolsocks]

It’s a lot more competitive this year though, which is really good for Irish rugby

[Lock9541]

It’s a lot more competitive this year though, which is really good for Irish rugby

But it’s not good for the depth of Irish Rugby. Not having games during the international break and not having an A competition isn’t good for academy/ developing squad players. They’ll want to leave now because they’re not getting any action with the senior squad.

[Oldschoolsocks]

It’s a lot more competitive this year though, which is really good for Irish rugby

But it’s not good for the depth of Irish Rugby. Not having games during the international break and not having an A competition isn’t good for academy/ developing squad players. They’ll want to leave now because they’re not getting any action with the senior squad.

swings and roundabouts?

I'm pretty sure there's been a fair amount of the squad used this year to date - Xan probably has it tracked

[Lock9541]

It’s a lot more competitive this year though, which is really good for Irish rugby

But it’s not good for the depth of Irish Rugby. Not having games during the international break and not having an A competition isn’t good for academy/ developing squad players. They’ll want to leave now because they’re not getting any action with the senior squad.

swings and roundabouts?

I'm pretty sure there's been a fair amount of the squad used this year to date - Xan probably has it tracked

Nothing compared to last season. Last season we used over 60 players and this season there’s no A competition or Leinster games on during international break which isn’t good for development. This isn’t good for our academy players and our 3rd/4th choice squad players.

[Oldschoolsocks]

But it’s not good for the depth of Irish Rugby. Not having games during the international break and not having an A competition isn’t good for academy/ developing squad players. They’ll want to leave now because they’re not getting any action with the senior squad.

swings and roundabouts?

I'm pretty sure there's been a fair amount of the squad used this year to date - Xan probably has it tracked

Nothing compared to last season. Last season we used over 60 players and this season there’s no A competition or Leinster games on during international break which isn’t good for development. This isn’t good for our academy players and our 3rd/4th choice squad players.

I can see you point of view alright, and I don't disagree that we may not have the opportunity to use 60 players this season due to a reduction in competitions, but of the 60 players used how many would be 3rd or 4th choice in their position in the Ireland squad?

I can see a much more competitive league as a plus for the team overall, and for Irish Rugby in general.

[dropkick]

swings and roundabouts?

I'm pretty sure there's been a fair amount of the squad used this year to date - Xan probably has it tracked

Nothing compared to last season. Last season we used over 60 players and this season there’s no A competition or Leinster games on during international break which isn’t good for development. This isn’t good for our academy players and our 3rd/4th choice squad players.

I can see you point of view alright, and I don't disagree that we may not have the opportunity to use 60 players this season due to a reduction in competitions, but of the 60 players used how many would be 3rd or 4th choice in their position in the Ireland squad?

I can see a much more competitive league as a plus for the team overall, and for Irish Rugby in general.

It is. In terms of coaching especially. You learn nothing from winning easy every week and it makes coaches lazy and risk averse which limits players' and teams' potential. Look at how Connacht play as opposed to Munster. 2 good examples there.


Lock9541, it's also true that there will be less chances for youngsters. There's talk of a kind of B URC competition being set up next season. That could be a good stepping stone between U20/AIL and professional rugby.

[ronk]

Yeah feels like we will lose a few alright. Hard to call who, but I’d guess something like:

Dooley or Ed Byrne
Sean Cronin
Maybe Dev Toner (but replaced with NIQ lock)
One or two back rows (would guess Deegan / Connors)
One or two centres from Conor O’Brien, O’Loughlin, Hawkshaw

So between five and seven players, with one replacement coming in.

Would be extremely disappointed to lose Connors

Provincial poaching of Connors would be an outrage.

He gets gametime, he bolted due to coaching here, he needs to rotate anyway.

Other provinces are developing their own young 7s. How would it benefit Irish rugby to slow down Kendellan or bench Timoney.

[CiaranIrl]

I think we'll see more changes to the format in a couple of years' time. We might end up with an Argentina team in there and who knows - maybe a Georgian team. I think they need more games in there. I know I'm not the only one who's less than impressed by the same season ticket price but with fewer games. If you go to every game but pay for each individually, it barely costs anything extra.

[Serb]

Provincial poaching of Connors would be an outrage.

He gets gametime, he bolted due to coaching here, he needs to rotate anyway.

Other provinces are developing their own young 7s. How would it benefit Irish rugby to slow down Kendellan or bench Timoney.

Obviously that whole post is wild speculation on my part, but thinking of Leinster a squad as a whole, I’d say himself, Sheehan and Penny would be put under the most pressure to leave.

Looking at contracts (not that they really mean anything to the IRFU), Penny has another year to run on his contract, but I think both Sheehan and Connors expire at the end of this season (both signed before the 20/21 season). I’d expect Sheehan to stay as he’ll be in the squad for every big game soon. I don’t think the same can be said for Connors.

That leaves a 25 year old, out of contract Irish capped back row who doesn’t make Leinster’s strongest team. That’s going to be pretty appealing to any other province.

I also think the logic that we generally use to justify keeping him (back row being attritional, there’ll be opportunities for minutes) can also be used to justify moving him. He won’t block the development of 7s elsewhere because they’ll be injured a lot.

You’ve got to think about it from his perspective too. At worst, he’d bench regularly for any other province. It’s unclear if he’s in the mix at all for the big games for us. He’ll factor that in when he gets approached by the other provinces this season.

[Made Of Ale]

This sounds like what some people were saying about Jack Conan a year or so ago.

Will Connors played for Ireland in the first four matches of the 2021 6 Nations before geting injured. There's no way Leinster will want a player with that profile to leave.

There's also no current evidence that he's not in the 'first-choice' panel, seeing as he's only just back from injury. We literally never have a full deck to choose from, in any case.

Agree Penny is a worry.

[ronk]

Provincial poaching of Connors would be an outrage.

He gets gametime, he bolted due to coaching here, he needs to rotate anyway.

Other provinces are developing their own young 7s. How would it benefit Irish rugby to slow down Kendellan or bench Timoney.

Obviously that whole post is wild speculation on my part, but thinking of Leinster a squad as a whole, I’d say himself, Sheehan and Penny would be put under the most pressure to leave.

Looking at contracts (not that they really mean anything to the IRFU), Penny has another year to run on his contract, but I think both Sheehan and Connors expire at the end of this season (both signed before the 20/21 season). I’d expect Sheehan to stay as he’ll be in the squad for every big game soon. I don’t think the same can be said for Connors.

That leaves a 25 year old, out of contract Irish capped back row who doesn’t make Leinster’s strongest team. That’s going to be pretty appealing to any other province.

I also think the logic that we generally use to justify keeping him (back row being attritional, there’ll be opportunities for minutes) can also be used to justify moving him. He won’t block the development of 7s elsewhere because they’ll be injured a lot.

You’ve got to think about it from his perspective too. At worst, he’d bench regularly for any other province. It’s unclear if he’s in the mix at all for the big games for us. He’ll factor that in when he gets approached by the other provinces this season.

Connors would definitely start anywhere else, and might here, anyway. In an attritional position being able to rotate is good. He's probably better off not overplaying.

The problem is more nuanced. Jordi Murphy moved and has been solidly getting 1st team gametime, but he's way off the Ireland pace and hasn't won anything. He was doing that in Leinster.

Connors grew as a player at Leinster and he should build on that technical foundation. Restarting elsewhere could lead to him regressing. If you don't have the fight in you to compete in Leinster you're not going to have it on the international stage. That's how this works, we've all seen it enough.

Sheehan can have the 1-2 punch with Kelleher and he's better off doing that. They're similar players in so many ways that it makes it easier to switch. They're both going to be playing enough international that they'll need to limit time either way. Would he rather play 30 minutes of a each of a few Heineken knock out games or watch them on the telly in another province.

The natural thing for Leinster is to let Cronin retire, keep a panel of 3 hookers and lean on the 2 academy ones. We'd be a bit tighter for gametime than we are now. A province that needs a hooker would do well to get Cronin for a bit, he's slowed but he's fast enough and he can carry.

[dropkick]

Provincial poaching of Connors would be an outrage.

He gets gametime, he bolted due to coaching here, he needs to rotate anyway.

Other provinces are developing their own young 7s. How would it benefit Irish rugby to slow down Kendellan or bench Timoney.

Obviously that whole post is wild speculation on my part, but thinking of Leinster a squad as a whole, I’d say himself, Sheehan and Penny would be put under the most pressure to leave.

Looking at contracts (not that they really mean anything to the IRFU), Penny has another year to run on his contract, but I think both Sheehan and Connors expire at the end of this season (both signed before the 20/21 season). I’d expect Sheehan to stay as he’ll be in the squad for every big game soon. I don’t think the same can be said for Connors.

That leaves a 25 year old, out of contract Irish capped back row who doesn’t make Leinster’s strongest team. That’s going to be pretty appealing to any other province.

I also think the logic that we generally use to justify keeping him (back row being attritional, there’ll be opportunities for minutes) can also be used to justify moving him. He won’t block the development of 7s elsewhere because they’ll be injured a lot.

You’ve got to think about it from his perspective too. At worst, he’d bench regularly for any other province. It’s unclear if he’s in the mix at all for the big games for us. He’ll factor that in when he gets approached by the other provinces this season.

I don't think Sheehan will be under any pressure to move. There's more than enough game time to keep himself and Kelleher happy. Same with VDF and Connors. Presuming Leavy is a 6 going forward.


Penny might be under pressure to move. For his own sake he needs to be realistic about his career progression. It suits leinster to have him waiting in the wings but is he really needed? He could make a big difference to Ulster or Connacht compared to bring 3rd choice for leinster and only playing in matches where they usually win easily. That's the way the IRFU would look at it but in saying thst they can't force him to move.

[Xanthippe]

It’s a lot more competitive this year though, which is really good for Irish rugby

But it’s not good for the depth of Irish Rugby. Not having games during the international break and not having an A competition isn’t good for academy/ developing squad players. They’ll want to leave now because they’re not getting any action with the senior squad.

swings and roundabouts?

I'm pretty sure there's been a fair amount of the squad used this year to date - Xan probably has it tracked

We’ve used 43 players so far this season but the big thing for me is that, of the 43, only two are academy players (we used seven last season)

[Oldschoolsocks]

But it’s not good for the depth of Irish Rugby. Not having games during the international break and not having an A competition isn’t good for academy/ developing squad players. They’ll want to leave now because they’re not getting any action with the senior squad.

swings and roundabouts?

I'm pretty sure there's been a fair amount of the squad used this year to date - Xan probably has it tracked

We’ve used 43 players so far this season but the big thing for me is that, of the 43, only two are academy players (we used seven last season)

thx Xan, how many would we have used at this stage of the season last year?

[Keith]

But it’s not good for the depth of Irish Rugby. Not having games during the international break and not having an A competition isn’t good for academy/ developing squad players. They’ll want to leave now because they’re not getting any action with the senior squad.

swings and roundabouts?

I'm pretty sure there's been a fair amount of the squad used this year to date - Xan probably has it tracked

We’ve used 43 players so far this season but the big thing for me is that, of the 43, only two are academy players (we used seven last season)

Are there any academy players banging on the door to get into the squad at the minute? I'm thinking perhaps one of the second rows due to how short for players we are there at the minute.

[ronk]

Soroka, Boyle, Osbourne. Max O'Reilly has a few caps too and I presume we have to rest Keenan eventually.

[sunshiner1]

Connacht have been pursuing Connors for the last few seasons. I could easily see them turning their attention to Penny. Wouldn't be worried about Sheahan.

[deco]

I remember when I was starting out in the gloom of eighties Ireland, an older colleague advised never to talk the economy down. His theory being that if enough people did, it would be self fulfilling.

So for the love of jaysus would ye shusht about sharing around our strength and depth.

[riocard911]

I remember when I was starting out in the gloom of eighties Ireland, an older colleague advised never to talk the economy down. His theory being that if enough people did, it would be self fulfilling.

So for the love of jaysus would ye shusht about sharing around our strength and depth.

I endorse this message!!!