Leinster Squad 21-22

[ronk]

Sam Illo joining Connachts senior squad and skipping academy.

Well I don't think Leinster were ever gonna match that deal, so that's that I suppose.

100%. I have no problem with that happening, I think it's sort of good in this case. DC wasn't wrong about a congested pathway for Illo at Leinster.

Connacht have shown that they want Illo more than Leinster wanted him, and have taken a punt on him. When you put somebody on senior deal, you're paying them to play, not to develop. There's no doubt in my mind that he will have some tough days, as he is still going to be at the same level physically and tactically as he would have been as a Year 1 Academy player at Leinster. But it will be an interesting case study to see how much difference a significant block of gametime makes to development at a young age.

And if they don't play him, then they've simply overreached for him. That's Connacht's business.

It has worked out well for Sam, who has gone from not even being in an academy to a pro deal – so €0 p.a. to €24-40k p.a. depending on whether he has signed a development contract for his first year or a basic senior contract. Good work from him and his agent.

One off it's okay. But if all the provinces had a feeding frenzy the Leinster academy would be in trouble.

And this is 3 tightheads in 2 years.

[cormac]

Roughly 50% capacity allowed for the All-Ireland Finals and the World Cup football qualifiers. Hopefully means we'll be able to get decent crowds back into the RDS for the start of the season.

[dropkick]

Well I don't think Leinster were ever gonna match that deal, so that's that I suppose.

100%. I have no problem with that happening, I think it's sort of good in this case. DC wasn't wrong about a congested pathway for Illo at Leinster.

Connacht have shown that they want Illo more than Leinster wanted him, and have taken a punt on him. When you put somebody on senior deal, you're paying them to play, not to develop. There's no doubt in my mind that he will have some tough days, as he is still going to be at the same level physically and tactically as he would have been as a Year 1 Academy player at Leinster. But it will be an interesting case study to see how much difference a significant block of gametime makes to development at a young age.

And if they don't play him, then they've simply overreached for him. That's Connacht's business.

It has worked out well for Sam, who has gone from not even being in an academy to a pro deal – so €0 p.a. to €24-40k p.a. depending on whether he has signed a development contract for his first year or a basic senior contract. Good work from him and his agent.

One off it's okay. But if all the provinces had a feeding frenzy the Leinster academy would be in trouble.

And this is 3 tightheads in 2 years.

Players are leaving for Wales and France too. You should be happy as its happening because of Leinsters conveyor belt of talent.

At first the conveyor belt boosted the strength of the squad. Then it pushed the average age of the squad down. No place for old players to ease their way into retirement. I think Cullen doesn't want the average age to get any lower than it is now. So it's essentially reached its limit. That means there are few old players and hardly any substandard players to be replaced. So not many opportunities for academy players to be given a chance. They then go elsewhere. There are only so many leinster can keep.

[the spoofer]

I can see us looking to keep both Boyle and Lassissi given the apparent weakness at LH. That might be wishful thinking!

[ronk]

Leinster's situation at tighthead has been so dire that we've signed 3 tightheads in less than 12 months.

1st we signed a guy who'd been cut from Munster on an emergency loan from jersey. Then we promoted an AIL player on a short term contract. Then we signed an experienced super rugby player for next season.

Same timeframe we also lost 3 young tightheads to other provinces, 2 graduating players and 1 from the sub-academy. If the other provinces continue their development at least they won't be coming back again in those slots.

Leinster have no props in the academy now. We could be the best academy in the world by a million miles but it won't produce professional props if there are none being developed.

[ronk]

An arms race of overbidding for players will see the sub-academy year (or years) skipped. And development contracts for guys who would otherwise be in the academy.

We have a system of not poaching players on pay but it was allowed to be eroded in a few cases and now it's under threat for young players.

The additional danger with young players is that putting agents in control of their early careers doesn't stop there. They'll be more aggressive in pursuit of moves forever.

[sunshiner1]

by ronk

An arms race of overbidding for players will see the sub-academy year (or years) skipped. And development contracts for guys who would otherwise be in the academy.

We have a system of not poaching players on pay but it was allowed to be eroded in a few cases and now it's under threat for young players.

The additional danger with young players is that putting agents in control of their early careers doesn't stop there. They'll be more aggressive in pursuit of moves forever.

Isn't this why Nucifora has a job? He could have made very clear to the other provinces about what they can and cannot offer a player. I guarantee you either Munster or Ulster had offered Illo a development contract which is why Connacht went with a senior. This can be stamped out quickly if they gave a sh-t.

[Keith]

by ronk

An arms race of overbidding for players will see the sub-academy year (or years) skipped. And development contracts for guys who would otherwise be in the academy.

We have a system of not poaching players on pay but it was allowed to be eroded in a few cases and now it's under threat for young players.

The additional danger with young players is that putting agents in control of their early careers doesn't stop there. They'll be more aggressive in pursuit of moves forever.

Isn't this why Nucifora has a job? He could have made very clear to the other provinces about what they can and cannot offer a player. I guarantee you either Munster or Ulster had offered Illo a development contract which is why Connacht went with a senior. This can be stamped out quickly if they gave a sh-t.

Why would you deny a player being offered a senior contract? Fair play to Ilo, he's absolutely right to take the full time contract and already have that on the CV. Rugby is an incredibly unsecure career as it is, especially now with ever stricter rules around foreign players across all the top leagues.

[ronk]

Part of me likes the idea of a fully professional academy and sub-academy.

But I've worked on assumption that Irish rugby can't easily afford it and players probably care more about getting paid at their peaks.

[sunshiner1]

by Keith

Why would you deny a player being offered a senior contract? Fair play to Ilo, he's absolutely right to take the full time contract and already have that on the CV. Rugby is an incredibly unsecure career as it is, especially now with ever stricter rules around foreign players across all the top leagues

It's nothing against Illo at all. Fair play to him, but as ronk says if we keep this precedent it's going to bankrupt the IRFU or divert money out of other parts of the game into wages.

[Keith]

by Keith

Why would you deny a player being offered a senior contract? Fair play to Ilo, he's absolutely right to take the full time contract and already have that on the CV. Rugby is an incredibly unsecure career as it is, especially now with ever stricter rules around foreign players across all the top leagues

It's nothing against Illo at all. Fair play to him, but as ronk says if we keep this precedent it's going to bankrupt the IRFU or divert money out of other parts of the game into wages.

We'll see if it's a trend but Connacht have a crisis at prop at the minute and crisis is an understatement. This is a unique scenario, I think and Connacht are clearly desperate.

[ronk]

Didn't think it was anything special, especially at tighthead.

Regardless, offering a full contract to an U20s guy coming from the Leinster sub academy doesn't sit right as a fix. Even more than that Illo is a baller. He has attracted attention because of his play in the loose on top of a reasonable set piece. A guy who was dominant in scrums but a liability around the park could still transition quickly and you take the hit in the loose. Or you get a solid 30 minutes out of them. Other way around and you get bent in two. You don't hide it either, opposition's smell fresh meat and target you if the match is anyway close.

It very much looks like Connacht are happy to pay a premium for a standout medium term option whose stock had risen quickly, i.e. it's opportunistic.

[king]

Who really knows about these things, decent looking prospect hope it works out for all concerned. I wouldn't rule out irfu involvement protecting a decent prospect from an overseas offer. Pure speculation of course.

[ronk]

It’s usually not cheaper to send a student to the other side of the country. And if they have to move anyway now the foreign offer looks better.

This is one province eating another. One bite won’t make a difference, but only if it stops.

[mildlyinterested]

Michael Alaalatoa training with leinster today.



more here: https://www.sportsfile.com/more-images/775697659/

[cormac]

Great news.

Ireland squad players back training too.

https://www.sportsfile.com/more-images/775697659/5000/

[hugonaut]

Very happy to see Max, Conor O'Brien, AB+, and Vakh out there and getting stuck in. It's been a long time for these lads [I know Vahk got a run-out at the end of last season, but it was a bit of a blink-and-you'll-miss-it affair].

A welcome back to Nick McCarth, who hopefully will resolve the issues we have had for the last two seasons for that third slot in the No9 jersey, and then begin to push hard for one of the rotating top two spots in the position.

An finally a hearty welcome to Michael Alaalatoa. Great to see that he has arrived already and is out there with his new teammates.

[mildlyinterested]

add Rhys Ruddock to that who ended a great season injured..

[elephantman]

No sign of Dan Leavy in those photos.

His recovery from his knee operation in February seems to be taking a little longer than anticipated. Suppose the medics are being extra careful with him but it would be great to see Dan Leavy back fully fit and ready to go.

Brilliant player.

[hugonaut]

add Rhys Ruddock to that who ended a great season injured..

100%. Our best forward last year [in my opinion] edging out JVDF, Kelleher and Porter.

I'd like to see him made club captain. Sexton played under 400mins in 2019-20 and under 240 mins in 2020-21 ... I just don't see how that is a good fit with the role of captaining the club, especially as we will now be entering into what should be a more challenging era in the league. I think it would be much better for us if we had a captain who was available for selection and in the side a lot more often.

To me it looks like Rhys is on the outside looking in at the national team under Farrell: he was capped just once [and then dropped] over the last 18 months, despite being obviously the best blindside in the country. I think at international level our No6 and No8 jerseys will be going through the trio of Conan, Doris and Coombes over the next couple of years as Farrell starts looking towards building his squad for the 2023 RWC.

Rhys would be 32 at that World Cup, which is by no means outside the window for a test backrower [Vermeulen was 33 at RWC19 and Kieran Read turned 34 during the tournament], but it looks as if - to quote Darren Cave – his "face doesn't fit". The upside of that is that he should be available for Leinster more often. I think we tend to play better when he is in the team, regardless of the opposition.