Leinster Rugby announce plans for Rapid Antigen Testing Pilot

[riocard911]

Aaaaaand its a no.

Well there must be a very good reason for it, as Health Minister Stephen Donnelly used to work for McKinsey and they only employ the absolute smartest people.

And Sports Minister Jack Chambers is ex-Belvo - which speaks for itself!!!

[Dexter]

Aaaaaand its a no.

Well there must be a very good reason for it, as Health Minister Stephen Donnelly used to work for McKinsey and they only employ the absolute smartest people.

Sarcastic Post of the Year for me... I like it

[neiliog93]

Aaaaaand its a no.

Well there must be a very good reason for it, as Health Minister Stephen Donnelly used to work for McKinsey and they only employ the absolute smartest people.

Research shows it is, very unlikely for the virus to transmit outdoors.

Ireland's political culture is intensely conservative (not socially or even economically, but in terms of risk vs. reward). Being cautious and risk-averse are seen as virtues, and avoiding the possibility of future blame at election time the main concern. In many other democracies they have a more healthy relationship with risk, but we don't. There is no scientific reason not to have limited capacity crowds for outdoor games (especially with antigen testing, and in the late Spring/Summer), but as usual their default is over-caution.

[riocard911]

Aaaaaand its a no.

Well there must be a very good reason for it, as Health Minister Stephen Donnelly used to work for McKinsey and they only employ the absolute smartest people.

Research shows it is, very unlikely for the virus to transmit outdoors.

Ireland's political culture is intensely conservative (not socially or even economically, but in terms of risk vs. reward). Being cautious and risk-averse are seen as virtues, and avoiding the possibility of future blame at election time the main concern. In many other democracies they have a more healthy relationship with risk, but we don't. There is no scientific reason not to have limited capacity crowds for outdoor games (especially with antigen testing, and in the late Spring/Summer), but as usual their default is over-caution.

Agree 100%. That also explains the disproportionate role of consultancy shops like KPMG in policy-making in this country. If the decision proves unpopular with the voters, the politicians responsible can blame the external advisers. Not a big fan of the Civil War parties myself, but fair play to Jim O'Callaghan and Neale Redmond for getting behind the thing. Interestingly, said two gentlemen in recent weeks are the first high profile members of FF & FG to present considered plans for a re-unification of Ireland. Remember BO'D playing the Lambeg Drum in Loughgall on The Twelfth in 2018? Where Leinster Rugby goes, Ireland follows!!!!

[Oldschool]

Aaaaaand its a no.

Well there must be a very good reason for it, as Health Minister Stephen Donnelly used to work for McKinsey and they only employ the absolute smartest people.

Research shows it is, very unlikely for the virus to transmit outdoors.

Ireland's political culture is intensely conservative (not socially or even economically, but in terms of risk vs. reward). Being cautious and risk-averse are seen as virtues, and avoiding the possibility of future blame at election time the main concern. In many other democracies they have a more healthy relationship with risk, but we don't. There is no scientific reason not to have limited capacity crowds for outdoor games (especially with antigen testing, and in the late Spring/Summer), but as usual their default is over-caution.

I'll be less kind the Precautionary Principle in Ireland means we don't care how many people die so long as it's not from COVID.
NIAC and NPHET aren't doing their jobs and the politicians are not making them do their jobs.
I've asked myself on a number of occasions what exactly are we paying millions of euros in salaries for and getting no return.

[neiliog93]

Speaking as someone with 'close experience' of the Irish civil/public service, it is basically all risk avoidance. Keep the show ticking along for the 1-4 years you're in a particular role, avoid potentially brilliant new ideas as they might go wrong and you'll get blamed, and over time, if you're competent, you'll get the promotion as you've avoided obvious mistakes.

[Ruckedtobits]

At the other end of the sports / medical spectrum, fascinating to see that the total cost in 2020 of drug testing sports players was just under €2m, but for only just over a thousand athletes in 27 sports. That's a ridiculous cost per test and deserves some investigative querying by our sports organisations.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Speaking as someone with 'close experience' of the Irish civil/public service, it is basically all risk avoidance. Keep the show ticking along for the 1-4 years you're in a particular role, avoid potentially brilliant new ideas as they might go wrong and you'll get blamed, and over time, if you're competent, you'll get the promotion as you've avoided obvious mistakes.

Depressing

[deco]

Speaking as someone with 'close experience' of the Irish civil/public service, it is basically all risk avoidance. Keep the show ticking along for the 1-4 years you're in a particular role, avoid potentially brilliant new ideas as they might go wrong and you'll get blamed, and over time, if you're competent, you'll get the promotion as you've avoided obvious mistakes.

Depressing

The first thing someone I know was told when she joined straight out of school was to " never set a precedent, or break a precedent". After long "service" she's being getting heaps of promotions in recent years as she approaches retirement.

It's a different world in there.

[neiliog93]

Anyway, the political expediency and ridiculous risk-aversion has left us in a situation where we're the only EU country doing mandatory hotel quarantine (including for some EU countries), and will probably be the only major rugby country heavily restricting or even completely banning crowds well into next season. Oh, and the only country to piss away the chance to host matches in the football Euros.

[limecat]

If there were 1,000 athletes tested I'd presume that there were many multiples that number of tests administered.

[Morf]

If there were 1,000 athletes tested I'd presume that there were many multiples that number of tests administered.

I would imagine a lot of those tests were rapid possibly utilising couriers/their own logistics to get samples to labs etc.
Going outside the regular testing scheme and waiting times costs.

[Morf]

At the other end of the sports / medical spectrum, fascinating to see that the total cost in 2020 of drug testing sports players was just under €2m, but for only just over a thousand athletes in 27 sports. That's a ridiculous cost per test and deserves some investigative querying by our sports organisations.

It can be imagined it cost a lot but I would fully support auditing the whole thing afterwards too.

[neiliog93]

At the other end of the sports / medical spectrum, fascinating to see that the total cost in 2020 of drug testing sports players was just under €2m, but for only just over a thousand athletes in 27 sports. That's a ridiculous cost per test and deserves some investigative querying by our sports organisations.

It can be imagined it cost a lot but I would fully support auditing the whole thing afterwards too.

That's actually cheaper than I thought, I've looked at prices for individual WADA drug testing before (out of curiosity), and seen prices of nearly €10k. Although,I suppose there are economies of scale with testing large numbers.

[SaS]

Speaking as someone with 'close experience' of the Irish civil/public service, it is basically all risk avoidance. Keep the show ticking along for the 1-4 years you're in a particular role, avoid potentially brilliant new ideas as they might go wrong and you'll get blamed, and over time, if you're competent, you'll get the promotion as you've avoided obvious mistakes.

And as someone with equalling 'close experience' of the civil/public service I can relate to this. It's not just out and out risk avoidance, it's also a culture of cover your arse and keep doing what we've always done. No matter how many New Ways of Working initiatives are brought in, they will always flounder on the rock of a lack of responsibility. Ultimately, when something goes wrong no-one is ever responsible.

As you say below, our mandatory quarantining was a half-arsed effort - came way too late and is not implemented properly. See also our lack of a proper test-and-trace system. Add in the fact that the government doesn't actually trust us and you have the inability to allow an experiment such as the Leinster initiative to take place - no reason why it couldn't happen with proper testing before and after. There was also no reason the Euro games couldn't go ahead in Lansdowne Road, just restrict tickets to fully vaccinated fans, with appropriate spacing, and there is little inherent risk.

[Dave Cahill]

If no one is ever responsible, then there is no risk to avoid - you can't have it both ways lads.

Now, this is just a mad idea, so bear with me and strap yourselves in, could it be, could it be, that the civil service's role is purely to implement the policies and laws developed and enacted by the elected Dail and Government, and we, the voting populace, are actually the risk adverse responsiblity dodgers becaue we're the ones who put them there.

No, that can't be the case, thats entirely untrue, lets dodge that responsib...oh.

[Oldschool]

If no one is ever responsible, then there is no risk to avoid - you can't have it both ways lads.

Now, this is just a mad idea, so bear with me and strap yourselves in, could it be, could it be, that the civil service's role is purely to implement the policies and laws developed and enacted by the elected Dail and Government, and we, the voting populace, are actually the risk adverse responsiblity dodgers becaue we're the ones who put them there.

No, that can't be the case, thats entirely untrue, lets dodge that responsib...oh.

There is a lot of truth in what you say above, however.
When was the last time you were given the opportunity to vote for a government who would address the above. Never is the answer and why, so we're in a catch 22.
We don't elect the Civil Service but Government ministers do have some scope to influence how the CS is run.
The government also has the power to change our electoral system which is very badly flawed, five seat constituencies is not democratic, it's chaotic.
If a CS is elected to the Dail they have an entitlement to go back to their pre-existing job, no matter what the job is,
a headmaster at a school for example. That guarantee of job security should be removed, it's unfair to other people who might want to seek election, it's an equality issue. At a guess you've never heard it raised before even.
That's just a few of the issues, there are a lot more.

Worth remembering Winston Churchill's
‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’

Given what Churchill is saying (and he's right) then it becomes extremely important to come up with the most efficient, best form of democracy.
We're a long way from it and it's not even been talked about.

If you want to try to effect change there are a number things that you can do.
1. Always use your vote.
2. Join a political party.
3. Any other suggestions????

[domhnallj]

If you want to try to effect change there are a number things that you can do.
1. Always use your vote.
2. Join a political party.
3. Any other suggestions????

Vote early, vote often.

[ronk]

Pick the least bad option, subject to electability.

Competition means everyone has to get a little better to lose.

[D4surfer]

If no one is ever responsible, then there is no risk to avoid - you can't have it both ways lads.

Now, this is just a mad idea, so bear with me and strap yourselves in, could it be, could it be, that the civil service's role is purely to implement the policies and laws developed and enacted by the elected Dail and Government, and we, the voting populace, are actually the risk adverse responsiblity dodgers becaue we're the ones who put them there.

No, that can't be the case, thats entirely untrue, lets dodge that responsib...oh.

The perfect career in the Civil Service is like a sports league table:

Played: 40 (years’ service)
Won: 0
Lost: 0
Drawn: 40
Scored: 0 (decisions made)
Conceded: 0 (responsible taken)
Points: a promotion on your last day to a grade that you never worked at. A tax free lump sum of 1.5 time the salary for this grade and an index linked pension based on the salary for this grade.