European Cup Semi-Final: Away to La Rochelle, Sunday 2nd of May 3pm

[Oldschoolsocks]

Ask an England supporter if Ryan lacks a "nasty streak", not the Irish media.

I only remember that aggression in one match V England in Twickenham. I just think he could be more aggressive.

Anyway, I was asking you lot, not an England supporter

[ronk]

Ask an England supporter if Ryan lacks a "nasty streak", not the Irish media.

Was thinking the same. Ryan is proper scary when he wants to be.

I want him focused, not trying to be hard. He has the footwork and the accuracy to move anyone he wants to move. It would be a waste for him to be distracted hunting cheap shots.

[thepunter]

FDI is a TLA for Foreign Direct Investment.
Does it have another meaning.
CDC date 5th May 2020, how out of date do you want to be?
Flu epidemic or season.
COVID isn't the flu but for some strange reason there was virtually no flu season in the winter just past.
Nobody is claiming that masks are a panacea but useless and/or dangerous is well wide of the mask.

Sorry was away for a bit.

Yes you're right, totally out of date and irrelevant, sincerest apologies.

I better go call Galileo and EInstein's descendents (and a few other lads and lassies besides) to tell them they've been dining out on that 'old science' shlt of theirs for too long now.

They really really are toally useless sir, I realise that's hard for many people to deal with (their entire belief systems are at stake - police, media, politicians, doctors) so I won't push it - its too big a jump for most people...., but it is peer-reviewed scientific fact.

Please do read that Meta. Good evening.

[fourthirtythree]

Ask an England supporter if Ryan lacks a "nasty streak", not the Irish media.

I only remember that aggression in one match V England in Twickenham. I just think he could be more aggressive.

Anyway, I was asking you lot, not an England supporter

They remember it, as do Sarries fans. It's a narrative which has taken hold in Ireland. As it happens it's wrong. In any case it's irrelevant. As Ronk pointed out, you don't want him walking around looking to dish out big hits, you want him putting pace and footwork on. I was disappointed with his performance last weekend because he didn't seem to be avoiding contact. I remember him getting turned over and when he picked up the ball, the angle he took, he was obviously going to be turned over. It was visible immediately.

When Itoje is great he is mentally so switched on (think of how he out thought, and out reacted McGrath against us when Luke fumbled in the QF?), when he is not (like the Six Nations) he is looking to make big impacts rather than looking to be smart. I think it obviously takes supreme confidence in your physicality to have that hot cold head in the heat of the game. And JR ain't at that spot right now.

That said I'd rather enjoy it if he puts Archer on his lucky to be paid to be an athlete arse every time they come together from now until Archer's inexplicably not already happened retirement. Because the amount of sh!t Archer does every game because he's physically not able to actually play it is criminal. Seriously, watch him some time and see him hit people blindsided off the ball every single game.

[Oldschool]

Are we back into soft boy territory again.
1. If Gatland actually suggested that Ryan lacked aggression then I'd be worried particularly given that he is our heir apparent Captain.
2. Something to consider, is Henderson more aggressive than Ryan.
3. Who are our most aggressive forwards.

Soft boys is not where we want the international perception of Ireland to be.
Especially if that feeds into the mind set of referees.

[riocard911]

RO'G's take on the whole episode - from today's Examiner:

Ronan O'Gara: Sage advice from a Kerryman - Walk easy when the jug is full

I’ve been reminding myself of a sage piece of Kerry advice I received not so long ago. Walk easy when the jug is full.

Thu, 06 May, 2021 - 20:55

In ensuring no-one around here loses the run of themselves, I’ve been reminding myself of a sage piece of Kerry advice I received not so long ago.

Walk easy when the jug is full.

Just about the only thing that knocked the Le Rochelle players backwards last Sunday was the rawness of the passion from our followers before and after the game. Walking into the ground, there was a powerful, visceral connection with locals desperate to convey the depth of meaning the day’s result had for them.

The pride they felt in the club’s and the town’s first European semi-final even took some seasoned ‘Maritimes’ by surprise. The natives were seriously pumped. This was like something you’d get outside Anfield on a big European Cup night. Afterwards, there was a palpable sense of pride, as there always has been, in how the players had represented them.

It’s very easy to get swept away on that. I got out of dodge. No media. No gladhanding. No talking ourselves up. Actions are more powerful than words all day long. I went home for a bit and slipped back into the club later on for a few beers.

Monday was pre-planned, a nice team-building day, heading out in small pleasure crafts on the water. The sense was of quiet satisfaction.

Leinster are a top European side, but everyone was keenly aware that there is another step to go in Europe this season. Lads here are beginning to appreciate that there are good players all around them and they want to do more than get to a final. So we walk easy for a bit.

If I’m honest, the focus on Saturday’s important Top 14 game in Montpellier only began in earnest Wednesday: I was wiped after Leinster. I was so absorbed in that game. It’s the first time I’ve had the opportunity as a La Rochelle coach to commit that much time and attention to the opposition in advance of a game. I got engrossed in the prep. And what I was seeing in my analysis wasn’t reflected in what I was reading in the Irish media. So, I was getting a little worried. Was I reading them all wrong?

Everything I read had Leinster winning for any number of reasons, few of which stood up to proper interrogation. I reckoned if we played our game — and in truth we only played half a game — that Leinster would struggle to stop us.

This was a Champions Cup semi-final. It obsessed me not because it was Leinster — though that was a factor, of course — but because it was a moment to drive the project forward, to use the momentum to achieve something. When the Brive Top 14 game was postponed the week before, it cleared the decks for us all to go ‘okay, let’s zone in on this, it’s a European Cup semi-final’.

The rhythm of the Top 14 is relentless, week after week, so that two-week run in to Leinster was something new.

Heretofore, the player workload I had in front of me meant it was hard to give much of an eye to the opposition when we had so many problems to sort out ourselves. That’s the hugely exciting element — up to now we haven’t had an established culture, environment, or performance record. A lot of this is new. But I think it is sustainable. We have good players. And having that bit of time to get our heads up and say ‘right let’s have a real good look at the opposition and see what they are doing’.

When we were with Munster, the temporal rhythms between the quarter and the semi-finals of the Heineken Cup were very consistent and allowed management and players to steadily build the side and the tactics to a crescendo.

That doesn’t happen in France; the weekend off ahead of Leinster was key. The timing was perfect.

Now, of course, we get the reverse ahead of the final, as we go tomorrow to Montpellier, on Tuesday face Brive and next Saturday again we entertain Agen. Only then can we realistically turn our attention to Toulouse at Twickenham the following week.

Sunday's victory means a little more when it is against a province from your own country. And by ‘a province’, I basically mean Leinster. If it wasn’t a referendum on how we were perceived at home in Ireland, that was the perception created in some Irish media. And the conclusion appeared to be that Leinster would blow over La Rochelle.

Irish teams are disciplined and organised and have huge trust in how they play the game. But there are trends to be established if you have a good look at them. When you go through our game plan in as much detail as I am prepared to outline for the moment, there was a big emphasis on stopping Jack Conan and Robbie Henshaw.

It isn’t that straightforward but if you stop the two of them, you are on the way to stopping Leinster. Henshaw is having an incredible season, but we were keen not to let him play. We still made some poor decisions in defence that gave them width, but after a while we got to grips with that and with the referee as well.

The sense of shock when Dillyn Leyds failed to catch those two early restarts was more how rare those slips have been this season than handing momentum to Leinster. But the fact remains if you don’t catch the ball five metres from your line, you are under pressure and are probably going to concede points. Twice, we didn’t exit well and it killed us.

You could see for the first 15 minutes, Leinster had done their homework and had been given good pictures of how we contest the breakdown, even though one or two penalties were quickly blown to our frustration. But being dominant with a yellow card was a big fillip, and the Ihaia West drop goal was important, irrespective of how it went over. I’ve seen beautifully struck drop goals go left and right of the posts too.

The pressure of those early exchanges was informative but in terms of our general discipline, we have progressed a lot. What has been hugely beneficial is having Uini Atonio, Pierre Bougarit, Greg Alldritt, and Brice Dulin in France camp and playing test rugby and seeing how much the referee actually matters.

We had highlighted in the lead up to the game the primacy of ball control, and once we did that we looked completely different in the second part of that first half. Leinster’s scramble defence was unbelievable at times and how we didn’t score in the left-hand corner, and when it was transferred across to Leyds and that odd bounce, I will never know.

Managing scenarios is fundamentally important at this level. Curveballs come quickly and you’ve got to deal with them. This is why I mentioned in a previous column about the players taking ownership of their environment and its importance. We don’t mind not having the ball because we have a good team spirit, a strong work ethic and that gives you every chance. That hasn’t been developed in the space of a week.

But typical us, the job was done at 32-16 so why give Ross Byrne the easy try at the death? There will be a proper inquisition into that when the time is right. Why did we do something unacceptable at that late stage? Things like that could come back to bite you in a final.

But all told, the work-rate on Sunday was excellent (if a given). For all their class players, it was instructive to watch the Man City emphasis on work rate against PSG Tuesday night. You have to have that and it’s something you work on day-in, day-out over a season.

It helps, naturally, when your half backs are playing with the confidence of Tawera Kerr-Barlow and Ihaia West.

The latter has signed a new deal, his self-belief is soaring, and he seems to have found that contentment in himself. His shoulder wasn’t the best but to score 22 points in a European semi-final is a fair achievement. We are very pleased with the output we are getting from our 10s, given they were both doubtful with injuries.

There has been a bit of inaccurate comment about the extent to which Top 14 budgets determine success as if our progress is built off a fat chequebook. Nonsense. When clubs are vetted annually by the LNR for licence there are strict rules on expenditure and salary. Though they are often coupled together, they are not the same thing.

A club’s expenditure goes on everything from logistics, security, hospitality, travel and staff and so on — and within that total figure, there is a salary cap of €11.5m, which is what a club is allowed to spend on players. Going over that guarantees severe sanction for a club. Does anyone in Ireland actually know what Leinster — and by extension the IRFU — spends on player salaries each year? The past 12 months have been about gelling together people from the four corners of the world to go after something they believe in. And how this project we’ve been working to get off the ground has moved into a very exciting phase.

Getting to European finals is something you can bank for the rainy day if you want but when you have momentum, you drive on.

French rugby is in a good place and the leading two sides in the Top 14 are in the final of the Champions Cup. Toulouse have those stars on their shirt but so had Leinster. This is a one-off cup final and playing at Twickenham will enhance the feel of a European decider. It’s an iconic venue where you make memories.

And I’ve one or two there I’d like to replace with new ones.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/opinion/c ... 83300.html

[Ruckedtobits]

What a well written and very informative piece. It adds to the 'rehabilitation' of ROG in my mind from a somewhat petulant figure who hugely resented Leinster's development into a major force in European rugby and their replacement of Munster in that role.

His disclosure that the LAR focus was to stop Henshaw and Conan first is precisely the analysis which gives some insight as to why and how Leinster failed to produce the performance expected of them last weekend.

His commentary on the expectations of the Irish media are also interesting and indicative that even top Coaches can be influenced, if not convinced, by the 'wall of commentary' even if it is ill-founded.

I'll watch the LAR progression to the end of the Season with even more interest now.

[Twist]

There has been a bit of inaccurate comment about the extent to which Top 14 budgets determine success as if our progress is built off a fat chequebook. Nonsense.

I find this part pretty unconvincing, but the rest is interesting as usual. I've never disliked ROG.

Re-watching the game, that missed early pen really sticks in my craw. I think an early 10 point lead would be a far bigger psychological blow/fillip than 7. Right throughout the game if you mentally add 3 points to our tally it makes the scoreboard look a lot more different than 3 points usually would. In the end the result would have been a live issue for the last couple of minutes. I know there's kicks missed in most games, but that was a particularly easy on by Ross's standards.

As to Ryan, I don't see him lacking aggression, but his decision making isn't what it might be. That turnover that was cited above is a prime example. I'm not sure what we want from him. I think the role that suits his best is as an athletic loosehead lock, but we seem to be asking him to be our tighthead workhorse. His footwork and hands aren't best exploited in that role. It feels like we're tasking him with a game that doesn't come naturally to him.

[Dexter]

There has been a bit of inaccurate comment about the extent to which Top 14 budgets determine success as if our progress is built off a fat chequebook. Nonsense.

I find this part pretty unconvincing, but the rest is interesting as usual. I've never disliked ROG.

Re-watching the game, that missed early pen really sticks in my craw. I think an early 10 point lead would be a far bigger psychological blow/fillip than 7. Right throughout the game if you mentally add 3 points to our tally it makes the scoreboard look a lot more different than 3 points usually would. In the end the result would have been a live issue for the last couple of minutes. I know there's kicks missed in most games, but that was a particularly easy on by Ross's standards.

As to Ryan, I don't see him lacking aggression, but his decision making isn't what it might be. That turnover that was cited above is a prime example. I'm not sure what we want from him. I think the role that suits his best is as an athletic loosehead lock, but we seem to be asking him to be our tighthead workhorse. His footwork and hands aren't best exploited in that role. It feels like we're tasking him with a game that doesn't come naturally to him.

Not dismissing what you say, but I dunno about the missed three pointer, I'm not sure it made much difference really. Maybe the try wouldn't have happened after it, with a different flow to the game? Plus they also missed a pen.
We played poorly, they played well. Very simplistic and there was a lot more to it but....

I DO agree with you on the unconvincing part though, French teams wouldn't have the players they have otherwise.

[backrower8]

Ask an England supporter if Ryan lacks a "nasty streak", not the Irish media.

I only remember that aggression in one match V England in Twickenham. I just think he could be more aggressive.

Anyway, I was asking you lot, not an England supporter

First, Ryan isn’t having a good season, but then Lawes isn’t having a season at all and Hill is nowhere near the same level.

This revisionist rubbish about Ryan based on a mediocre injury interrupted season and triggered here by trash-talker Gatland’s comments are laughable. Gatland is not a sincere talker, he would say anything to get through the awkward moment “why no JR” as quickly as possible and onto the next question as part of the Lions hype-machine.

Gatland’s remarks about Leinster were more convenient BS talking to a friendly interviewer. They ignore the days that Leinster and Irish packs, loaded with Leinster players backboned by Ryan, emptied England (2018 & 2020), the ABs and Sarries (2018) and Exeter (2021) as well as everyone else they played.

Ryan has become noticeably physical in 2020, manhandling opponents. He played a major part against a massive Racing pack in the winning final in 2018 and he stuck it to England in a losing battle in Twickers in 2020 6N.

On top of that he has picked 6 Saracens and Exeter forwards that were eaten by Leinster-Ireland packs. So it’s complete cr@p.

Despite his remarks, he still picked 3 Leinster forwards including two props. You can’t pin the blame on 1 guy like that.

Gatland is a good man manager, a lucky general and an insincere cynic in terms of public commentary. Only Jones is worse.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Ask an England supporter if Ryan lacks a "nasty streak", not the Irish media.

I only remember that aggression in one match V England in Twickenham. I just think he could be more aggressive.

Anyway, I was asking you lot, not an England supporter

First, Ryan isn’t having a good season, but then Lawes isn’t having a season at all and Hill is nowhere near the same level.

This revisionist rubbish about Ryan based on a mediocre injury interrupted season and triggered here by trash-talker Gatland’s comments are laughable. Gatland is not a sincere talker, he would say anything to get through the awkward moment “why no JR” as quickly as possible and onto the next question as part of the Lions hype-machine.

Gatland’s remarks about Leinster were more convenient BS talking to a friendly interviewer. They ignore the days that Leinster and Irish packs, loaded with Leinster players backboned by Ryan, emptied England (2018 & 2020), the ABs and Sarries (2018) and Exeter (2021) as well as everyone else they played.

Ryan has become noticeably physical in 2020, manhandling opponents. He played a major part against a massive Racing pack in the winning final in 2018 and he stuck it to England in a losing battle in Twickers in 2020 6N.

On top of that he has picked 6 Saracens and Exeter forwards that were eaten by Leinster-Ireland packs. So it’s complete cr@p.

Despite his remarks, he still picked 3 Leinster forwards including two props. You can’t pin the blame on 1 guy like that.

Gatland is a good man manager, a lucky general and an insincere cynic in terms of public commentary. Only Jones is worse.

OK, I get it. I get he is physical, I just wonder if he’s too nice about it.

[backrower8]

I only remember that aggression in one match V England in Twickenham. I just think he could be more aggressive.

Anyway, I was asking you lot, not an England supporter

First, Ryan isn’t having a good season, but then Lawes isn’t having a season at all and Hill is nowhere near the same level.

This revisionist rubbish about Ryan based on a mediocre injury interrupted season and triggered here by trash-talker Gatland’s comments are laughable. Gatland is not a sincere talker, he would say anything to get through the awkward moment “why no JR” as quickly as possible and onto the next question as part of the Lions hype-machine.

Gatland’s remarks about Leinster were more convenient BS talking to a friendly interviewer. They ignore the days that Leinster and Irish packs, loaded with Leinster players backboned by Ryan, emptied England (2018 & 2020), the ABs and Sarries (2018) and Exeter (2021) as well as everyone else they played.

Ryan has become noticeably physical in 2020, manhandling opponents. He played a major part against a massive Racing pack in the winning final in 2018 and he stuck it to England in a losing battle in Twickers in 2020 6N.

On top of that he has picked 6 Saracens and Exeter forwards that were eaten by Leinster-Ireland packs. So it’s complete cr@p.

Despite his remarks, he still picked 3 Leinster forwards including two props. You can’t pin the blame on 1 guy like that.

Gatland is a good man manager, a lucky general and an insincere cynic in terms of public commentary. Only Jones is worse.

OK, I get it. I get he is physical, I just wonder if he’s too nice about it.

Ask the people he hits.

[Oldschoolsocks]

First, Ryan isn’t having a good season, but then Lawes isn’t having a season at all and Hill is nowhere near the same level.

This revisionist rubbish about Ryan based on a mediocre injury interrupted season and triggered here by trash-talker Gatland’s comments are laughable. Gatland is not a sincere talker, he would say anything to get through the awkward moment “why no JR” as quickly as possible and onto the next question as part of the Lions hype-machine.

Gatland’s remarks about Leinster were more convenient BS talking to a friendly interviewer. They ignore the days that Leinster and Irish packs, loaded with Leinster players backboned by Ryan, emptied England (2018 & 2020), the ABs and Sarries (2018) and Exeter (2021) as well as everyone else they played.

Ryan has become noticeably physical in 2020, manhandling opponents. He played a major part against a massive Racing pack in the winning final in 2018 and he stuck it to England in a losing battle in Twickers in 2020 6N.

On top of that he has picked 6 Saracens and Exeter forwards that were eaten by Leinster-Ireland packs. So it’s complete cr@p.

Despite his remarks, he still picked 3 Leinster forwards including two props. You can’t pin the blame on 1 guy like that.

Gatland is a good man manager, a lucky general and an insincere cynic in terms of public commentary. Only Jones is worse.

OK, I get it. I get he is physical, I just wonder if he’s too nice about it.

Ask the people he hits.

I’m asking you

[CiaranIrl]

I think people forget that James Ryan is still just 24 years old. He's 5 years younger than Ian Henderson, who has had plenty of bad form in the last 5 or 6 years. Ryan has a long way to go before he's in the peak of his career, which tends to be 27-33 or so for a second row. I have no doubt that he'll be on the next Lions tour. In fact, the last few weeks may well prove to be the making of him.

I wouldn't trade James Ryan for any second row on the planet.

[fourthirtythree]

Yeah, Henderson was a let down at international level between the last Lions tour and this calendar year. He was excellent this year though which is why I was saying that Ryan was the third best Irish international lock on this year's form.
Itoje was really poor this six Nations and he's travelling mind you.

[blindside]

I haven't seen much commentary about the seemingly exceptional easing on the number 'non-European' player allowed in match day squads this season (see clause 3.6 - https://www.epcrugby.com/champions-cup/format/rules/).

Would that have any impact on the squad La Rochelle would have been able to select last weekend?

[Dave Cahill]

I haven't seen much commentary about the seemingly exceptional easing on the number 'non-European' player allowed in match day squads this season (see clause 3.6 - https://www.epcrugby.com/champions-cup/format/rules/).

Would that have any impact on the squad La Rochelle would have been able to select last weekend?

Almost impossible to tell really, without knowing more information. Skelton and Vito have Samoan parentage so you'd imagine that they have taken up Samoan passports to qualify under the Kolpak ruling. Botia is Fijian which is a Kolpak country, as is South Africa. Who knows what passports Kerr-Barlow and West are working under, same with Bosch (there are huge numbers of argentinian sportspersons with European passports - some of them are even genuine)

[Lock9541]

https://youtu.be/GhViKbsG3pk

[Oldschool]

ROG was talking nonsense (as in there's no way I'm telling Leinster what we planned) when referring to targeting Conan and Henshaw.
He knew exactly what our weakest position (neither Conan or Henshaw fit that criteria) was and so it panned out,
It's been our problem position for quite some time now and quite a few punters have mentioned it before.
So what is to do?

[ronk]

ROG was talking nonsense (as in there's no way I'm telling Leinster what we planned) when referring to targeting Conan and Henshaw.
He knew exactly what our weakest position (neither Conan or Henshaw fit that criteria) was and so it panned out,
It's been our problem position for quite some time now and quite a few punters have mentioned it before.
So what is to do?

Defend strengths, attack weaknesses.