is the Rainbow Cup still going ahead?

[LeRouxIsPHat]

So when is someone going to resign/be sacked for this shambles?

Why should someone be sacked for doing their very best in the face of unprecedented challenges? I've enjoyed lots of the games.

I agree. There's only so much they can do with limited time and game cancellations. This tournament was designed to bring in money which all the clubs want.

They could have not organised a cross hemisphere tournament in December with no ability to plan for it during a pandemic, without having to change the format of the league season, without the need to change the format of the cup comp they had only just made up, without paying 6m for nothing, without the season wrapping up before we could get a good few games with crowds, without having full squads available that had a few weeks break, and without any contingency for cancelled games that were always going to be an issue.

All of that was predictable and avoidable.

I don’t get this thing about people enjoying the games, we’d still have had games with a normal season, it’s not like the season would have ended with the final in March, a game that could potentially have hurt our chances in Europe and cost us money that way anyway.

I’ll never see this any other way but even if you think the money was worth it, surely the people who signed off on paying 6m for a tournament that didn’t actually happen should not still be in their jobs? Doesn’t matter how well intentioned they were, that’s incompetence of the highest order.

[Dave Cahill]

The Pro14 and Rainbow Cup this season have been a farrago. Games called off and not refixed, competition structure constantly changing, teams and players looking uninterested, players being pulled to protect the 6 Nations/Lions/Champions Cup, no fans. A complete shambles.

A completely necessary shambles though. If we have professional rugby in Ireland next season it is because of this shambles. The IRFU are considered (and often envied) for their fiscal rectitude. They have managed a minority sport in a country with a small population and significant competition, both native and on our neighbouring Island, in a way that has turned a profit and kept the stars of that sport in Ireland. Irelands 6N games inhabit the upper reaches of the the top 10 TV ratings every year, Leinster can pretty much fill the national stadium a couple of times a year, the game is expanding at grassroots level (two new clubs affiliated to the Munster Branch this week) - yes, the AIL has become the squeezed middle, but that can be fixed. And they are skint. The IRFU have furloughed, laid off, short timed staff. They have drawn down government assistance, CVC money. And it's all gone. The only thing keeping Professional rugby in Ireland alive is the shambles that is Pro14 and the Rainbow Cup. Without the South Africans and their Supersport rand, next season we'd be the ovoid FAI.

There are positives though. Firstly we have what the Top14 and the Premiership would kill for, what the Heineken and Champions Cup would die for. We have a cross hemisphere competition. The champions of the northern hemisphere competition will take on the champions of the southern hemisphere competition in a Grand Final. Never mind the quality, never mind Trevisio, feel the ad-buys and count the cash. And the future. This may be a bit kak right now, but next year and in following years, when a bit of normality has returned and we're playing the Bulls in the RDS while Munster take on the Sharks this year will be forgotten. But this year is what will make those years possible

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I don’t understand why people feel the money had to necessitate this format of a competition and destruction of the regular season.

We could still have got the money by doing something better.

Just one example, a month blocked off around now for 4 weeks of knockout games.

[the spoofer]

The Pro14 and Rainbow Cup this season have been a farrago. Games called off and not refixed, competition structure constantly changing, teams and players looking uninterested, players being pulled to protect the 6 Nations/Lions/Champions Cup, no fans. A complete shambles.

A completely necessary shambles though. If we have professional rugby in Ireland next season it is because of this shambles. The IRFU are considered (and often envied) for their fiscal rectitude. They have managed a minority sport in a country with a small population and significant competition, both native and on our neighbouring Island, in a way that has turned a profit and kept the stars of that sport in Ireland. Irelands 6N games inhabit the upper reaches of the the top 10 TV ratings every year, Leinster can pretty much fill the national stadium a couple of times a year, the game is expanding at grassroots level (two new clubs affiliated to the Munster Branch this week) - yes, the AIL has become the squeezed middle, but that can be fixed. And they are skint. The IRFU have furloughed, laid off, short timed staff. They have drawn down government assistance, CVC money. And it's all gone. The only thing keeping Professional rugby in Ireland alive is the shambles that is Pro14 and the Rainbow Cup. Without the South Africans and their Supersport rand, next season we'd be the ovoid FAI.

There are positives though. Firstly we have what the Top14 and the Premiership would kill for, what the Heineken and Champions Cup would die for. We have a cross hemisphere competition. The champions of the northern hemisphere competition will take on the champions of the southern hemisphere competition in a Grand Final. Never mind the quality, never mind Trevisio, feel the ad-buys and count the cash. And the future. This may be a bit kak right now, but next year and in following years, when a bit of normality has returned and we're playing the Bulls in the RDS while Munster take on the Sharks this year will be forgotten. But this year is what will make those years possible

+1 to what he said.

[Oldschool]

The Pro14 and Rainbow Cup this season have been a farrago. Games called off and not refixed, competition structure constantly changing, teams and players looking uninterested, players being pulled to protect the 6 Nations/Lions/Champions Cup, no fans. A complete shambles.

A completely necessary shambles though. If we have professional rugby in Ireland next season it is because of this shambles. The IRFU are considered (and often envied) for their fiscal rectitude. They have managed a minority sport in a country with a small population and significant competition, both native and on our neighbouring Island, in a way that has turned a profit and kept the stars of that sport in Ireland. Irelands 6N games inhabit the upper reaches of the the top 10 TV ratings every year, Leinster can pretty much fill the national stadium a couple of times a year, the game is expanding at grassroots level (two new clubs affiliated to the Munster Branch this week) - yes, the AIL has become the squeezed middle, but that can be fixed. And they are skint. The IRFU have furloughed, laid off, short timed staff. They have drawn down government assistance, CVC money. And it's all gone. The only thing keeping Professional rugby in Ireland alive is the shambles that is Pro14 and the Rainbow Cup. Without the South Africans and their Supersport rand, next season we'd be the ovoid FAI.

There are positives though. Firstly we have what the Top14 and the Premiership would kill for, what the Heineken and Champions Cup would die for. We have a cross hemisphere competition. The champions of the northern hemisphere competition will take on the champions of the southern hemisphere competition in a Grand Final. Never mind the quality, never mind Trevisio, feel the ad-buys and count the cash. And the future. This may be a bit kak right now, but next year and in following years, when a bit of normality has returned and we're playing the Bulls in the RDS while Munster take on the Sharks this year will be forgotten. But this year is what will make those years possible

Great Post TBF
The Pro14 has speculated to accumulate and are a step ahead of the posse, In a time of pandemic they've been preparing for the endemic.
Is there anything in the small print that the UK/French clubs could use to block the SA participation in the HCC?
Or might they see SA participation as a step towards an elitist Super League with promotion and relegation thrown in for competitiveness reasons.
As an aside -who came up with the idea of SA involvement in the Pro14, give that man/men a raise.

[the spoofer]

Why should someone be sacked for doing their very best in the face of unprecedented challenges? I've enjoyed lots of the games.

I agree. There's only so much they can do with limited time and game cancellations. This tournament was designed to bring in money which all the clubs want.

They could have not organised a cross hemisphere tournament in December with no ability to plan for it during a pandemic, without having to change the format of the league season, without the need to change the format of the cup comp they had only just made up, without paying 6m for nothing, without the season wrapping up before we could get a good few games with crowds, without having full squads available that had a few weeks break, and without any contingency for cancelled games that were always going to be an issue.

All of that was predictable and avoidable.

I don’t get this thing about people enjoying the games, we’d still have had games with a normal season, it’s not like the season would have ended with the final in March, a game that could potentially have hurt our chances in Europe and cost us money that way anyway.

I’ll never see this any other way but even if you think the money was worth it, surely the people who signed off on paying 6m for a tournament that didn’t actually happen should not still be in their jobs? Doesn’t matter how well intentioned they were, that’s incompetence of the highest order.

I'm just not into calling for heads of people who tried to do their best in the middle of a global pandemic where restrictions changed on a daily, weekly and monthly basis.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

The Pro14 and Rainbow Cup this season have been a farrago. Games called off and not refixed, competition structure constantly changing, teams and players looking uninterested, players being pulled to protect the 6 Nations/Lions/Champions Cup, no fans. A complete shambles.

A completely necessary shambles though. If we have professional rugby in Ireland next season it is because of this shambles. The IRFU are considered (and often envied) for their fiscal rectitude. They have managed a minority sport in a country with a small population and significant competition, both native and on our neighbouring Island, in a way that has turned a profit and kept the stars of that sport in Ireland. Irelands 6N games inhabit the upper reaches of the the top 10 TV ratings every year, Leinster can pretty much fill the national stadium a couple of times a year, the game is expanding at grassroots level (two new clubs affiliated to the Munster Branch this week) - yes, the AIL has become the squeezed middle, but that can be fixed. And they are skint. The IRFU have furloughed, laid off, short timed staff. They have drawn down government assistance, CVC money. And it's all gone. The only thing keeping Professional rugby in Ireland alive is the shambles that is Pro14 and the Rainbow Cup. Without the South Africans and their Supersport rand, next season we'd be the ovoid FAI.

There are positives though. Firstly we have what the Top14 and the Premiership would kill for, what the Heineken and Champions Cup would die for. We have a cross hemisphere competition. The champions of the northern hemisphere competition will take on the champions of the southern hemisphere competition in a Grand Final. Never mind the quality, never mind Trevisio, feel the ad-buys and count the cash. And the future. This may be a bit kak right now, but next year and in following years, when a bit of normality has returned and we're playing the Bulls in the RDS while Munster take on the Sharks this year will be forgotten. But this year is what will make those years possible

Great Post TBF
The Pro14 has speculated to accumulate and are a step ahead of the posse, In a time of pandemic they've been preparing for the endemic.
Is there anything in the small print that the UK/French clubs could use to block the SA participation in the HCC?
Or might they see SA participation as a step towards an elitist Super League with promotion and relegation thrown in for competitiveness reasons.
As an aside -who came up with the idea of SA involvement in the Pro14, give that man/men a raise.

We could still have joined up with SA for the league without the Rainbow cup. The latter wasn’t needed for the former.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I agree. There's only so much they can do with limited time and game cancellations. This tournament was designed to bring in money which all the clubs want.

They could have not organised a cross hemisphere tournament in December with no ability to plan for it during a pandemic, without having to change the format of the league season, without the need to change the format of the cup comp they had only just made up, without paying 6m for nothing, without the season wrapping up before we could get a good few games with crowds, without having full squads available that had a few weeks break, and without any contingency for cancelled games that were always going to be an issue.

All of that was predictable and avoidable.

I don’t get this thing about people enjoying the games, we’d still have had games with a normal season, it’s not like the season would have ended with the final in March, a game that could potentially have hurt our chances in Europe and cost us money that way anyway.

I’ll never see this any other way but even if you think the money was worth it, surely the people who signed off on paying 6m for a tournament that didn’t actually happen should not still be in their jobs? Doesn’t matter how well intentioned they were, that’s incompetence of the highest order.

I'm just not into calling for heads of people who tried to do their best in the middle of a global pandemic where restrictions changed on a daily, weekly and monthly basis.

Yeah, how was the person who paid 6m for f%~k all to know that the tournament wouldn’t go ahead as planned when during a pandemic? But they did their best, fair play, now let’s see how they take the game forward.

[The Doc]

Why should someone be sacked for doing their very best in the face of unprecedented challenges? I've enjoyed lots of the games.

Because they’re totally incompetent. I’m not going to repeat all the points I’ve already made in this thread, my posts are there if you want to read them.

Weren't agreed back then and not agreed now. Put a timeline of how conditions changed against when decisions were being made given they were attempting to predict 3 months ahead when planning - I'm not sure there was an obvious shambolic decision. The shambles is mainly out of their control

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Why should someone be sacked for doing their very best in the face of unprecedented challenges? I've enjoyed lots of the games.

Because they’re totally incompetent. I’m not going to repeat all the points I’ve already made in this thread, my posts are there if you want to read them.

Weren't agreed back then and not agreed now. Put a timeline of how conditions changed against when decisions were being made given they were attempting to predict 3 months ahead when planning - I'm not sure there was an obvious shambolic decision. The shambles is mainly out of their control

I don’t see how a timeline would help your argument. Everything pointed to both ourselves and SA being in trouble for a long time and this tournament was announced before we’d even started vaccinating. It’s not like we saw the vaccinations start and were happy that sufficient progress was being made that we could gamble on this tournament.

Again, the league would have carried on as normal and there were alternatives to what they came up with that would have been more acceptable and realistic to me, and even if they had also failed it wouldn’t have been as bad.

Edit: one of my big issues is that they literally couldn’t plan this tournament so they shouldn’t have bothered.

[Barry]

Munster lads can resume their BBQ

Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk

[fourthirtythree]

Mixed opinions. I get that having the competition next year is a big win. On the other hand it messed up this year and I didn't bother watching it (I saw two games, one with us. If I had literally anything else to do I did it).
Was going to write this year off anyway. My children currently dispute their ages.

[heno]

The Pro14 and Rainbow Cup this season have been a farrago. Games called off and not refixed, competition structure constantly changing, teams and players looking uninterested, players being pulled to protect the 6 Nations/Lions/Champions Cup, no fans. A complete shambles.

A completely necessary shambles though. If we have professional rugby in Ireland next season it is because of this shambles. The IRFU are considered (and often envied) for their fiscal rectitude. They have managed a minority sport in a country with a small population and significant competition, both native and on our neighbouring Island, in a way that has turned a profit and kept the stars of that sport in Ireland. Irelands 6N games inhabit the upper reaches of the the top 10 TV ratings every year, Leinster can pretty much fill the national stadium a couple of times a year, the game is expanding at grassroots level (two new clubs affiliated to the Munster Branch this week) - yes, the AIL has become the squeezed middle, but that can be fixed. And they are skint. The IRFU have furloughed, laid off, short timed staff. They have drawn down government assistance, CVC money. And it's all gone. The only thing keeping Professional rugby in Ireland alive is the shambles that is Pro14 and the Rainbow Cup. Without the South Africans and their Supersport rand, next season we'd be the ovoid FAI.

There are positives though. Firstly we have what the Top14 and the Premiership would kill for, what the Heineken and Champions Cup would die for. We have a cross hemisphere competition. The champions of the northern hemisphere competition will take on the champions of the southern hemisphere competition in a Grand Final. Never mind the quality, never mind Trevisio, feel the ad-buys and count the cash. And the future. This may be a bit kak right now, but next year and in following years, when a bit of normality has returned and we're playing the Bulls in the RDS while Munster take on the Sharks this year will be forgotten. But this year is what will make those years possible

Great Post TBF
The Pro14 has speculated to accumulate and are a step ahead of the posse, In a time of pandemic they've been preparing for the endemic.
Is there anything in the small print that the UK/French clubs could use to block the SA participation in the HCC?
Or might they see SA participation as a step towards an elitist Super League with promotion and relegation thrown in for competitiveness reasons.
As an aside -who came up with the idea of SA involvement in the Pro14, give that man/men a raise.

We could still have joined up with SA for the league without the Rainbow cup. The latter wasn’t needed for the former.

Well you need to expand on that because as I see it, the only 2 choices were
1) draw a line under the competition that had happened before the sa teams could join, and then start a new thing in these last few weeks.
2) hand back the money and try again next year

SA obviously wanted some sort of warm up games for the lions tour, that was their priority. So I entirely back the decision to do what ever we could to help out our new best friends. Even if it meant further compromising an already compromised season.

People in rugby have long memories. We are still making documentaries about the English team that came to play the 5 nations during the troubles. Imagine there is a vote on something to do with the new euro Cup including the sa teams. The English and the French want one thing, and the we want the other. Maybe the SA teams will remember us doing our best to help them out.

I didnt agree with every decision made along the way and definitely in hindsight a lot looks pretty bad. But overall I think it was a reasonable attempt and hopefully we can all move onwards and upwards from here.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Sorry but I don’t really get your initial point. I was saying that we could have just started next season with the expanded league, I don’t see why a cup was needed to integrate the two leagues.

I’d also take huge issue with saying that in hindsight it looks bad. It was incredibly predictable that it would go wrong, that’s my point around the incompetence.

Just because SA wanted/needed warm up games doesn’t mean they had to happen, not now, not in these very particular circumstances. And if that was a priority then there were other ways to achieve it.

I really can’t get my head around the idea that someone came up with the rainbow cup and people see that as being the only solution available as if it had to happen, it didn’t.

[riocard911]

Great post, Dave Cahill. Chapeau!!! Valid points made too by Heno, with whom I am also in agreement. Just wait till the warm up matches BIL vs Sharks, Stormers, Lions and Bulls kick off and you'll see the Nigels turning green for envy about the up and coming Pro 16. Our league is gonna be killer and I can't wait!!!

p.s. Vai Treviso!!! (or maybe "Braai Treviso!!!" is better...)

[wixfjord]

Great post, Dave Cahill. Chapeau!!! Valid points made too by Heno, with whom I am also in agreement. Just wait till the warm up matches BIL vs Sharks, Stormers, Lions and Bulls kick off and you'll see the Nigels turning green for envy about the up and coming Pro 16. Our league is gonna be killer and I can't wait!!!

p.s. Vai Treviso!!! (or maybe "Braai Treviso!!!" is better...)

But next seasons Pro16 has nothing to do with this season's Rainbow Cup?

This is an utter farce of a competition in every way. It's totally uneven, it started with no clear view as to how it might end, then the format was changed midway through and it's ending now with a team who has played four games incl Zebre twice against a SA side without their internationals.

Some of the individual games have been good, but the desire to hammer this competition through by any means necessary to grab that extra 500k has resulted in a frankenstein of a competition that also ruined the end of the actual league season.

[Flash Gordon]

The Pro14 and Rainbow Cup this season have been a farrago. Games called off and not refixed, competition structure constantly changing, teams and players looking uninterested, players being pulled to protect the 6 Nations/Lions/Champions Cup, no fans. A complete shambles.

A completely necessary shambles though. If we have professional rugby in Ireland next season it is because of this shambles. The IRFU are considered (and often envied) for their fiscal rectitude. They have managed a minority sport in a country with a small population and significant competition, both native and on our neighbouring Island, in a way that has turned a profit and kept the stars of that sport in Ireland. Irelands 6N games inhabit the upper reaches of the the top 10 TV ratings every year, Leinster can pretty much fill the national stadium a couple of times a year, the game is expanding at grassroots level (two new clubs affiliated to the Munster Branch this week) - yes, the AIL has become the squeezed middle, but that can be fixed. And they are skint. The IRFU have furloughed, laid off, short timed staff. They have drawn down government assistance, CVC money. And it's all gone. The only thing keeping Professional rugby in Ireland alive is the shambles that is Pro14 and the Rainbow Cup. Without the South Africans and their Supersport rand, next season we'd be the ovoid FAI.

There are positives though. Firstly we have what the Top14 and the Premiership would kill for, what the Heineken and Champions Cup would die for. We have a cross hemisphere competition. The champions of the northern hemisphere competition will take on the champions of the southern hemisphere competition in a Grand Final. Never mind the quality, never mind Trevisio, feel the ad-buys and count the cash. And the future. This may be a bit kak right now, but next year and in following years, when a bit of normality has returned and we're playing the Bulls in the RDS while Munster take on the Sharks this year will be forgotten. But this year is what will make those years possible

100% correct! Great post Dave.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

The Pro14 and Rainbow Cup this season have been a farrago. Games called off and not refixed, competition structure constantly changing, teams and players looking uninterested, players being pulled to protect the 6 Nations/Lions/Champions Cup, no fans. A complete shambles.

A completely necessary shambles though. If we have professional rugby in Ireland next season it is because of this shambles. The IRFU are considered (and often envied) for their fiscal rectitude. They have managed a minority sport in a country with a small population and significant competition, both native and on our neighbouring Island, in a way that has turned a profit and kept the stars of that sport in Ireland. Irelands 6N games inhabit the upper reaches of the the top 10 TV ratings every year, Leinster can pretty much fill the national stadium a couple of times a year, the game is expanding at grassroots level (two new clubs affiliated to the Munster Branch this week) - yes, the AIL has become the squeezed middle, but that can be fixed. And they are skint. The IRFU have furloughed, laid off, short timed staff. They have drawn down government assistance, CVC money. And it's all gone. The only thing keeping Professional rugby in Ireland alive is the shambles that is Pro14 and the Rainbow Cup. Without the South Africans and their Supersport rand, next season we'd be the ovoid FAI.

There are positives though. Firstly we have what the Top14 and the Premiership would kill for, what the Heineken and Champions Cup would die for. We have a cross hemisphere competition. The champions of the northern hemisphere competition will take on the champions of the southern hemisphere competition in a Grand Final. Never mind the quality, never mind Trevisio, feel the ad-buys and count the cash. And the future. This may be a bit kak right now, but next year and in following years, when a bit of normality has returned and we're playing the Bulls in the RDS while Munster take on the Sharks this year will be forgotten. But this year is what will make those years possible

100% correct! Great post Dave.

You mentioned money on the first page so given that you've agreed with Dave's post I'm curious about your answer to these questions. Why did the tournament have to be in this format? Why couldn't a different format have meant the money was paid? And do you know how much we'd have made if we had had a regular season, or potentially had a smaller cup comp with crowds (e.g. a knockout tournament with 16 teams based in London for a month) or other alternatives such as offering that Leinster and Munster play SA in SA for warmup matches?

People being so wedded to this idea and thinking there were no alternatives and no choice is really blowing my mind here.

Edit: London obviously a stupid suggestion considering the nature of the tournament but somewhere else in the UK.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Great post, Dave Cahill. Chapeau!!! Valid points made too by Heno, with whom I am also in agreement. Just wait till the warm up matches BIL vs Sharks, Stormers, Lions and Bulls kick off and you'll see the Nigels turning green for envy about the up and coming Pro 16. Our league is gonna be killer and I can't wait!!!

p.s. Vai Treviso!!! (or maybe "Braai Treviso!!!" is better...)

But next seasons Pro16 has nothing to do with this season's Rainbow Cup?

This is an utter farce of a competition in every way. It's totally uneven, it started with no clear view as to how it might end, then the format was changed midway through and it's ending now with a team who has played four games incl Zebre twice against a SA side without their internationals.

Some of the individual games have been good, but the desire to hammer this competition through by any means necessary to grab that extra 500k has resulted in a frankenstein of a competition that also ruined the end of the actual league season.

Thanks, I felt like I was going mad before this

Tbf I hadn't factored in how funny it is that it's gone so badly for Munster considering how important it was to them so maybe it was all worth it.

[riocard911]

Great post, Dave Cahill. Chapeau!!! Valid points made too by Heno, with whom I am also in agreement. Just wait till the warm up matches BIL vs Sharks, Stormers, Lions and Bulls kick off and you'll see the Nigels turning green for envy about the up and coming Pro 16. Our league is gonna be killer and I can't wait!!!

p.s. Vai Treviso!!! (or maybe "Braai Treviso!!!" is better...)

But next seasons Pro16 has nothing to do with this season's Rainbow Cup?

This is an utter farce of a competition in every way. It's totally uneven, it started with no clear view as to how it might end, then the format was changed midway through and it's ending now with a team who has played four games incl Zebre twice against a SA side without their internationals.

Some of the individual games have been good, but the desire to hammer this competition through by any means necessary to grab that extra 500k has resulted in a frankenstein of a competition that also ruined the end of the actual league season.

Thanks, I felt like I was going mad before this

Tbf I hadn't factored in how funny it is that it's gone so badly for Munster considering how important it was to them so maybe it was all worth it.

Slowly coming around, LRIF, I'm glad to see.....