Are Leinster an offloading team? Does the Leinster attack lack imagination?

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mildlyinterested
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Are Leinster an offloading team? Does the Leinster attack lack imagination?

Post by mildlyinterested »

https://youtu.be/4FpkToXWYTk?t=1658

from: 27:38 on..
Joe Molloy: "Would you consider Leinster an offloading team?"
Andy Dunne: "Not at the moment no"
Joe Molloy: "Yeah because I wouldn't either, they are methodical and they can beat up teams up front in the pro 14 and the lesser teams in europe, but they ain't Toulouse either"
...
later
Andy Dunne" The current leinster setup, no they are very capable of grinding the clock down, exhaustive phase play rugby, breaking down the opposition through relentlessness as opposed to imagination"
Interesting discussion.. Not sure I agree completely but certainly we are a more forward dominant team in recent years and that's where most of our young emerging top talent has been.
Last edited by mildlyinterested on February 22nd, 2021, 8:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

FLIP
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Re: Are Leinster an offloading team? Does the Leinster attack lack imagination?

Post by FLIP »

We certainly used to be one, 9-10 years ago. The glory days of the Schmidt era at Leinster.
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OTT
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Re: Are Leinster an offloading team? Does the Leinster attack lack imagination?

Post by OTT »

Pretty sure a few months ago after the Saracens match you could find loads of threads about how we overplayed, offloaded to much in the wrong areas and didn’t play enough sensible rugby, same thing back in the Final in 2019. I guess whatever way beats the team you are playing is the right way, I don’t look back on the 2018 final against Racing and think what if...I think we won a tight match by out scoring them with 3 pointers because that was what was needed.

Sometimes we are an offloading team and sometimes we aren’t, most of the time our decision making works for us and occasionally it doesn’t. Toulouse are an offloading team and finished 7th in their league last season, conversely Exeter are not an offloading team but did the double last season and beat Toulouse on their way to becoming champions of Europe. I’d say the Tribe are happy enough.
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Dave Cahill
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Re: Are Leinster an offloading team? Does the Leinster attack lack imagination?

Post by Dave Cahill »

As of the end of last season, teams that offload the least and kick the most, win the trophies.

These things are cyclical though. At one point all the winning teams were the offloading teams. By 2013 through 15 though, the game became a kicking game when Australia, Waratahs, Ireland, Saracens, Leinster and Toulon, the kickingest teams in their competitions, won all before them. Then Glasgow won the Pro14, followed by Connacht and then Scarlets and the offload was back in fashion in the Pro14. Ireland then win a grand slam using a game plan based around the kicking game - shift again.

Ultimately, Leinster are a winning team and they don't give a f%~k how they go about it. We are basically O'Exeter and they are Leinstoohaar
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hugonaut
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Re: Are Leinster an offloading team? Does the Leinster attack lack imagination?

Post by hugonaut »

mildlyinterested wrote:
February 22nd, 2021, 8:00 pm
https://youtu.be/4FpkToXWYTk?t=1658

from: 27:38 on..
Joe Molloy: "Would you consider Leinster an offloading team?"
Andy Dunne: "Not at the moment no"
Joe Molloy: "Yeah because I wouldn't either, they are methodical and they can beat up teams up front in the pro 14 and the lesser teams in europe, but they ain't Toulouse either"
...
later
Andy Dunne" The current leinster setup, no they are very capable of grinding the clock down, exhaustive phase play rugby, breaking down the opposition through relentlessness as opposed to imagination"
Interesting discussion.. Not sure I agree completely but certainly we are a more forward dominant team in recent years and that's where most of our young emerging top talent has been.
Same old same old from Andy Dunne. He's a nice guy but I disagree with him a lot about rugby, because he has the same answer for every problem. Rugby is a strategic game and there are lots of different problems that you have to solve, and you have to solve them using different methods.

We played Toulouse three times in 2018-19, when they absolutely ran away with the Top14 [table: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_Top_14_season ]. That was the last season with a winner of the Top14; 2019-20 was abandoned with Toulouse in 7th position after 17 matches. It's only two seasons ago, and it's the last time we played them.

Toulouse 28 [3 tries] - Leinster 27 [3 tries]
Leinster 29 [4 tries] - Toulouse 13 [1 try]
Leinster 32 [3 tries] - Toulouse 12 [0 tries]

So a cumulative score of 89 [10 tries] - 52 [4 tries].

I actually agree that Ireland and Leinster should offload more often under the current breakdown interpretations. Jackallers are rewarded much earlier than previously, and you have to be more precise when hitting rucks [re: contact with the head] or risk a very significant tariff.

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ronk
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Re: Are Leinster an offloading team? Does the Leinster attack lack imagination?

Post by ronk »

Offloading is sometimes a sign of having to force play. Leinster offload somewhat but teams live off turnovers and you have to be realistic about doing what works. If you’re able to build phases and then scores then why not.

If teams leave themselves open to offloads we can be quick to take advantage, but we’re selective. If we were better at it we’d do it more, like drop goals.

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Re: Are Leinster an offloading team? Does the Leinster attack lack imagination?

Post by Ruckedtobits »

ronk wrote:
February 22nd, 2021, 9:37 pm
Offloading is sometimes a sign of having to force play. Leinster offload somewhat but teams live off turnovers and you have to be realistic about doing what works. If you’re able to build phases and then scores then why not.

If teams leave themselves open to offloads we can be quick to take advantage, but we’re selective. If we were better at it we’d do it more, like drop goals.
Leinster set out to win, period. This year it is my perception that we have focussed on doing this with lowest possible risk i.e. less offloads. The loss of experience may have something to do with this - e.g. McFadden & Kearney.

Ringrose, Keenan, Lowe & Henshaw can all off-load at will but, IMO, only Ringrose & Keenan do it instinctively.

P.S. (Can practice make you better at something you're supposed to do instinctively?)

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Re: Are Leinster an offloading team? Does the Leinster attack lack imagination?

Post by Blue Man »

Not sure I accept the premise of Andy’s (or Joe’s) argument. Offloading is one element of the game and often an effective way to get in behind structured defenses but I don’t think it necessarily follows that offloading = champagne rugby and not offloading = boring.
However, I do believe that Leinster have been playing a limited style that is overly reliant on out muscling inferior Pro1X sides. This does not work at the top level against the French and English sides, neither does it prepare players for international rugby. In addition, it is not the Leinster style of play that we know and love. It is important to we remain true to our style of attacking back play and that we coach talent to have a high skill level and acute attacking instincts.
It’s important for the club, culture and players that we develop beyond the limited bosh that seems to be penetrating our game at the moment.

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Re: Are Leinster an offloading team? Does the Leinster attack lack imagination?

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
February 22nd, 2021, 10:46 pm
ronk wrote:
February 22nd, 2021, 9:37 pm
Offloading is sometimes a sign of having to force play. Leinster offload somewhat but teams live off turnovers and you have to be realistic about doing what works. If you’re able to build phases and then scores then why not.

If teams leave themselves open to offloads we can be quick to take advantage, but we’re selective. If we were better at it we’d do it more, like drop goals.
Leinster set out to win, period. This year it is my perception that we have focussed on doing this with lowest possible risk i.e. less offloads. The loss of experience may have something to do with this - e.g. McFadden & Kearney.

Ringrose, Keenan, Lowe & Henshaw can all off-load at will but, IMO, only Ringrose & Keenan do it instinctively.

P.S. (Can practice make you better at something you're supposed to do instinctively?)
yes

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