Leinster v Ulster Fri 8th January 2021 19:35 EirSport

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Flash Gordon
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Fri 8th January 2021 19:35 EirSport

Post by Flash Gordon »

backrower8 wrote:
January 9th, 2021, 6:03 pm
I have been asking a few friends who are Ulster rugby fans as to why they aren't producing academy players like Leinster (traditionally Leinster and Ulster always have had comparable player numbers).

Their answers mainly point to how most don't play after school (like Leinster). What I found different was how they pointed to more focus on the University journey. That means something different for Leinster players, as in Ulster a large cohort would go to mainland UK and therein the link is broken.

Another (unspoken) difference between Leinster / Munster on the one hand and Ulster (Connacht are a different case entirely) is the lack of a winning culture. Rugby-mad schoolkids in Leinster and Munster are fuelled by the modern folklore (Munster) and recent imagery of trophies and glory days. Perhaps those fires don't burn as brightly in Ulster given the lack of silverware in the last 20 years and the lure of University life in the wider channels of the mainland.

Finally, one responder said concluded that the days of Ulster teams being mainly populated by Ulster-born players would not be seen again. I think that is a dangerous reality for the IRFU.
The Ulster Academy was highly productive up to the point Gary Longwell left. Hendo, Gilroy, Spence, Marshall etc were the last crop from that era. Since then it's just not been managed well. You have to look at Clarke, Willie Anderson and maybe Campbell to see why. Willie Anderson should never be let near some up and coming kid's development and Clarke was a very difficult individual.

The building blocks we put in place from club rugby and minis through the schools in terms of structures, coaching and skills have been exceptional, Ulster didn't do that. It's not just the schools here, most professional rugby players started their playing journey at clubs. The way they are identified and built up through secondary school and into the academy is a massive competitive advantage for us.

There is an issue with players leaving Ulster primarily to go to Scotland (university is free there unlike England) and the IRFU/Ulster really need to think about an Exiles base and structure in Scotland.
Flash ahhhh ahhh, he'll save every one of us

backrower8
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Fri 8th January 2021 19:35 EirSport

Post by backrower8 »

Flash Gordon wrote:
January 11th, 2021, 5:43 pm

The Ulster Academy was highly productive up to the point Gary Longwell left. Hendo, Gilroy, Spence, Marshall etc were the last crop from that era. Since then it's just not been managed well. You have to look at Clarke, Willie Anderson and maybe Campbell to see why. Willie Anderson should never be let near some up and coming kid's development and Clarke was a very difficult individual.

The building blocks we put in place from club rugby and minis through the schools in terms of structures, coaching and skills have been exceptional, Ulster didn't do that. It's not just the schools here, most professional rugby players started their playing journey at clubs. The way they are identified and built up through secondary school and into the academy is a massive competitive advantage for us.

There is an issue with players leaving Ulster primarily to go to Scotland (university is free there unlike England) and the IRFU/Ulster really need to think about an Exiles base and structure in Scotland.
Nice insights. Thanks.

I am surprised to read your remarks re Big Willie.

I encountered him firstly when playing a match against the schools team he coached and then played against him a few times a few years later. Not that that is proof of anything or even relevant, but he made a few speeches around the overnight schools mini-tour and match and I found him to be a fair player. I am sure he was old school, but would have guessed he was one of the good guys.

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Re: Leinster v Ulster Fri 8th January 2021 19:35 EirSport

Post by FLIP »

Flash Gordon wrote:
January 11th, 2021, 5:43 pm
There is an issue with players leaving Ulster primarily to go to Scotland (university is free there unlike England) and the IRFU/Ulster really need to think about an Exiles base and structure in Scotland.
University isn't free for those from England, Wales or NI: https://www.study.eu/article/tuition-fees-in-scotland
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allezlesverres
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Fri 8th January 2021 19:35 EirSport

Post by allezlesverres »

The Ulster Academy was highly productive up to the point Gary Longwell left. Hendo, Gilroy, Spence, Marshall etc were the last crop from that era. Since then it's just not been managed well. You have to look at Clarke, Willie Anderson and maybe Campbell to see why. Willie Anderson should never be let near some up and coming kid's development and Clarke was a very difficult individual.

Baloucoune, Eric O'Sullivan, Tom O'Toole, James Hume, Michael Lowry, Stewart Moore, Jacob Stockdale, John Andrew, Rob Lyttle are all recent academy graduates so I don't know if its fair to write off the academy.

There is an issue with players leaving Ulster primarily to go to Scotland (university is free there unlike England) and the IRFU/Ulster really need to think about an Exiles base and structure in Scotland.
[/quote]

It's not about Uni fees, it is historical. It used to be aspirational to send your kids to Scotland to get them out of the Troubles and even though the Troubles aren't a thing anymore, the habit has stuck.

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Re: Leinster v Ulster Fri 8th January 2021 19:35 EirSport

Post by AdolpusGrigson »

Liam Toland & Benny Hill.

i cant see any reference here or elsewhere to Liam Toland humming the Benny Hill theme music as Sean Cronin made his way at top speed - deep into Ulster territory pursued by his teammates & Ulster playres.

Top quality commentating although only lasting about 3 seconds when Liam may have remebered that he was on air.

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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Leinster v Ulster Fri 8th January 2021 19:35 EirSport

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

:
AdolpusGrigson wrote:
January 14th, 2021, 5:00 pm
Liam Toland & Benny Hill.

i cant see any reference here or elsewhere to Liam Toland humming the Benny Hill theme music as Sean Cronin made his way at top speed - deep into Ulster territory pursued by his teammates & Ulster playres.

Top quality commentating although only lasting about 3 seconds when Liam may have remebered that he was on air.
Good man AG :D

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Re: Leinster v Ulster Fri 8th January 2021 19:35 EirSport

Post by AdolpusGrigson »


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