SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

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mildlyinterested
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SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by mildlyinterested »

Don't know where to put this but thought it interesting:
He believes the province must invest heavily in coach education across the province to try and bridge the divide in terms of preparation or risk losing the diversity of character that comes from having a broad player base at the elite end.

"It definitely is a key part of my story," he says.

"It is very important for younger guys nowadays who are in that situation to realise they can get picked up if they work hard enough, stay determined.

"They probably do need a bit of a chip on their shoulder, bit of an attitude about them to get past some of the barriers that might be in place for them.

"It's important for them to understand that Leinster are looking outside the pale as such. There are programmes in place for the development of all club players in Leinster. It was a massive part for me, it's something I am very proud of.

"You can't have the same type of personalities within a set-up that big. You need some raw lads with a different perspective.

"Leinster are after losing a lot of characters in the last few years. So, it's important we have lads coming through.

"There are lads there, but it's important they keep coming through. You have Michael Milne who by all accounts is a bit of a character, you have Dools (Peter Dooley), Tadhg (Furlong).

"The lads in the schools are characters in their own right too, but it's just not the same because they're drilled so much in school.

"They train every single day, rugby is their life from a very young age where for us it's not. It's GAA, it's farming, it's milking cows, it's so much more. Rugby is there and while we enjoy it so much on a Tuesday, a Thursday and a Sunday, that's it for us.

"That has advantages and disadvantages in my eyes. The disadvantages are the fact that your skill-set, your game knowledge, suffers because the boys in the school set-up are getting to have really good coaches, the development and gyms and the infrastructure is way, way, way ahead of clubs.

"That's really the advantage. The advantage for the country lads is they have the bit of rawness, the real good mental strength usually. The majority of them are from working-class backgrounds and they're not afraid to dig in. They have got a bit of a character element to them as well that is a bit different.

"So that's why it's important to have a good mix of players coming through."

O'Brien believes the net is catching the best players, but says club players are at a clear disadvantage.

"I don't know if they are missing that many players. The difference in my eyes at the minute is that the school system, all the school systems, are just churning out so many really good players that is it worth Leinster taking the chance, a shot in the dark for someone who maybe isn't in the same league as a back-rower from St Michael's or Blackrock or wherever?" he says.

"The Youths coaches need to be upskilled, the clubs need to be upskilled in terms of who's coaching. When I went back during the lockdown and took a couple of sessions, the coaches were doing their best but they need to be upskilled and that's where Leinster need to get out to clubs, to regularly coach the coaches.

"It's not about coaching 50, 80, 100 young lads. Coach the coaches.

"Then you see a big difference in a 16-year-old that's in a school and a 16-year-old playing Youths rugby who is standing out for a Tullow, a Carlow or an Enniscorthy. Put him in against a 16-year-old that's in a schools system and see.

"The problem now is there's too big a gap between the coaching systems, the schools are way, way ahead in terms of knowledge, the infrastructure in schools and the way they coach. The clubs are behind I believe."

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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by Ruckedtobits »

No disagreement with that call. Coaching the coaches to deliver the skills, not just the results, has always been a conundrum. The Coach who delivers the results, from Junior or Under 20 rugby, is always more likely to get promotion that the coach who develops, or adds to, the skills of the developing players.

Maybe Leinster need to pick out a few of those type of coaches and invite theem to work with Academy Coaches for special modules.

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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by ronk »

I was under the impression Leinster had been doing that. Schools have an advantage there too of course. But there are enough ex-pro players out there and school teacher is a good career or people who want to stay involved.

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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by Blueberry »

Good article from SOB and spot on.

Leinster rugby mainly lives off the South Dublin schools game but is missing talent outside of the Pale as the rural clubs while run by well intentioned volunteers and dad coaches are not tooled up to anything like the same level. The entire system certainly outside of Dublin is an antique and the standard is very low beset with lots of problems. Not a criticism of the current clubs as they do their best and underage teams are more often than not coached and run by anyone willing to do the job with no assessment of quality or coaching energy. If you are prepared to rock up and get kids doing press ups and chucking a ball about you will get the gig.

Really depends on what people want. Do we want our club game to be a production line for top quality players or a community based sporting organisation which while very valuable as a community asset is not going to give opportunities to the most talented to excel at the top levels without moving to other schools or coaching structures ?

Not saying either is right but SOB I think can see where things currently sit.

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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by Dave Cahill »

Relying too much on the schools system is like the taxi drivers back in the 80s and early 90s who took out mortgages based on the value of their plates.
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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by ormond lad »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 3:17 pm
No disagreement with that call. Coaching the coaches to deliver the skills, not just the results, has always been a conundrum. The Coach who delivers the results, from Junior or Under 20 rugby, is always more likely to get promotion that the coach who develops, or adds to, the skills of the developing players.

Maybe Leinster need to pick out a few of those type of coaches and invite theem to work with Academy Coaches for special modules.
I wouldnt say pick out some of these coaches to work with academy coaches. For modules like you suggest it can only be open invite.
Coaching the coaches is only way to help club players do more.
Blueberry wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 3:44 pm
Good article from SOB and spot on.

Leinster rugby mainly lives off the South Dublin schools game but is missing talent outside of the Pale as the rural clubs while run by well intentioned volunteers and dad coaches are not tooled up to anything like the same level. The entire system certainly outside of Dublin is an antique and the standard is very low beset with lots of problems. Not a criticism of the current clubs as they do their best and underage teams are more often than not coached and run by anyone willing to do the job with no assessment of quality or coaching energy. If you are prepared to rock up and get kids doing press ups and chucking a ball about you will get the gig.

Really depends on what people want. Do we want our club game to be a production line for top quality players or a community based sporting organisation which while very valuable as a community asset is not going to give opportunities to the most talented to excel at the top levels without moving to other schools or coaching structures ?

Not saying either is right but SOB I think can see where things currently sit.
There is loads of talent missed out. I wouldnt call the system outside of Dublin beset with loads of problems. Dublin has plenty of issues as well and more needs to be done to get more playing and those not in rugby schools playing to a higher level than they are.
I think its very unfair to generalise and say more often than not the underage teams are not coached well enough.
The club game can and should be both. It is a production line for pros as well as community based organisation for those who want to play on to adult level and more needs to be done to help those playing socially within schools at 3rds, 4ths level in the schools and help keep them in the sport as much as those on the show piece sides who compete in the schools senior cup.

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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by Blueberry »

ormond lad wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 6:16 pm
Ruckedtobits wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 3:17 pm
No disagreement with that call. Coaching the coaches to deliver the skills, not just the results, has always been a conundrum. The Coach who delivers the results, from Junior or Under 20 rugby, is always more likely to get promotion that the coach who develops, or adds to, the skills of the developing players.

Maybe Leinster need to pick out a few of those type of coaches and invite theem to work with Academy Coaches for special modules.
I wouldnt say pick out some of these coaches to work with academy coaches. For modules like you suggest it can only be open invite.
Coaching the coaches is only way to help club players do more.
Blueberry wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 3:44 pm
Good article from SOB and spot on.

Leinster rugby mainly lives off the South Dublin schools game but is missing talent outside of the Pale as the rural clubs while run by well intentioned volunteers and dad coaches are not tooled up to anything like the same level. The entire system certainly outside of Dublin is an antique and the standard is very low beset with lots of problems. Not a criticism of the current clubs as they do their best and underage teams are more often than not coached and run by anyone willing to do the job with no assessment of quality or coaching energy. If you are prepared to rock up and get kids doing press ups and chucking a ball about you will get the gig.

Really depends on what people want. Do we want our club game to be a production line for top quality players or a community based sporting organisation which while very valuable as a community asset is not going to give opportunities to the most talented to excel at the top levels without moving to other schools or coaching structures ?

Not saying either is right but SOB I think can see where things currently sit.
There is loads of talent missed out. I wouldnt call the system outside of Dublin beset with loads of problems. Dublin has plenty of issues as well and more needs to be done to get more playing and those not in rugby schools playing to a higher level than they are.
I think its very unfair to generalise and say more often than not the underage teams are not coached well enough.
The club game can and should be both. It is a production line for pros as well as community based organisation for those who want to play on to adult level and more needs to be done to help those playing socially within schools at 3rds, 4ths level in the schools and help keep them in the sport as much as those on the show piece sides who compete in the schools senior cup.
I don't have enough experience of the Dublin club game at underage level to feel qualified enough to comment on it but have plenty of experience of coaching and being involved in a rural club and seeing all the problems of poor coaching and DAD coaching. From a purely observational level the bigger Dublin clubs seem a bit better coached but many of the rural clubs are struggling to get coaches and from years of coaching and being a parent the coaching standards and politics are woeful if you want to develop top quality pro rugby talent. If what you want is a community based organisation for 'fun rugby' then it's fine, lots of energetic and willing helpers but very few actual top quality coaches. I have seen it and the standards are generally poor if you want to develop top talent. I am not saying this is wrong (as there is a huge positive to community sport) but it is what it is. In my opinion the system is beset with problems if you want to develop top talent, if you want a community club which is a bit of fun for kids, it's less of a problem.

Not getting at anyone as I fully understand the community club positives but if you want to pull more talent into the PRO game from outside the south Dublin school pool things do need change. If you don't want to alter it, it's fine too. Just being realistic.

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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by ormond lad »

Blueberry wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 7:55 pm
ormond lad wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 6:16 pm
Ruckedtobits wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 3:17 pm
No disagreement with that call. Coaching the coaches to deliver the skills, not just the results, has always been a conundrum. The Coach who delivers the results, from Junior or Under 20 rugby, is always more likely to get promotion that the coach who develops, or adds to, the skills of the developing players.

Maybe Leinster need to pick out a few of those type of coaches and invite theem to work with Academy Coaches for special modules.
I wouldnt say pick out some of these coaches to work with academy coaches. For modules like you suggest it can only be open invite.
Coaching the coaches is only way to help club players do more.
Blueberry wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 3:44 pm
Good article from SOB and spot on.

Leinster rugby mainly lives off the South Dublin schools game but is missing talent outside of the Pale as the rural clubs while run by well intentioned volunteers and dad coaches are not tooled up to anything like the same level. The entire system certainly outside of Dublin is an antique and the standard is very low beset with lots of problems. Not a criticism of the current clubs as they do their best and underage teams are more often than not coached and run by anyone willing to do the job with no assessment of quality or coaching energy. If you are prepared to rock up and get kids doing press ups and chucking a ball about you will get the gig.

Really depends on what people want. Do we want our club game to be a production line for top quality players or a community based sporting organisation which while very valuable as a community asset is not going to give opportunities to the most talented to excel at the top levels without moving to other schools or coaching structures ?

Not saying either is right but SOB I think can see where things currently sit.
There is loads of talent missed out. I wouldnt call the system outside of Dublin beset with loads of problems. Dublin has plenty of issues as well and more needs to be done to get more playing and those not in rugby schools playing to a higher level than they are.
I think its very unfair to generalise and say more often than not the underage teams are not coached well enough.
The club game can and should be both. It is a production line for pros as well as community based organisation for those who want to play on to adult level and more needs to be done to help those playing socially within schools at 3rds, 4ths level in the schools and help keep them in the sport as much as those on the show piece sides who compete in the schools senior cup.
I don't have enough experience of the Dublin club game at underage level to feel qualified enough to comment on it but have plenty of experience of coaching and being involved in a rural club and seeing all the problems of poor coaching and DAD coaching. From a purely observational level the bigger Dublin clubs seem a bit better coached but many of the rural clubs are struggling to get coaches and from years of coaching and being a parent the coaching standards and politics are woeful if you want to develop top quality pro rugby talent. If what you want is a community based organisation for 'fun rugby' then it's fine, lots of energetic and willing helpers but very few actual top quality coaches. I have seen it and the standards are generally poor if you want to develop top talent. I am not saying this is wrong (as there is a huge positive to community sport) but it is what it is. In my opinion the system is beset with problems if you want to develop top talent, if you want a community club which is a bit of fun for kids, it's less of a problem.

Not getting at anyone as I fully understand the community club positives but if you want to pull more talent into the PRO game from outside the south Dublin school pool things do need change. If you don't want to alter it, it's fine too. Just being realistic.
You are making far too many generalisations and my experience from reffing and coaching sides playing against Leinster sides doesnt show that to be the case and many of the dublin clubs dont field in youths rugby or in the youths-schools and it isnt the same.
I wouldnt say many rural clubs are that bad. there is plenty as bad within city clubs and some schools.

The sport isnt about producing players to pro level. Its a part of it but only a small part. and in youths rugby even more than the schools its why the development systems and the 5 regional squads and the development office who run that programme leading to shane horgan cup and then youths team which is showing the positives.

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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by Blueberry »

ormond lad wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 9:18 pm
Blueberry wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 7:55 pm
ormond lad wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 6:16 pm
I wouldnt say pick out some of these coaches to work with academy coaches. For modules like you suggest it can only be open invite.
Coaching the coaches is only way to help club players do more.

There is loads of talent missed out. I wouldnt call the system outside of Dublin beset with loads of problems. Dublin has plenty of issues as well and more needs to be done to get more playing and those not in rugby schools playing to a higher level than they are.
I think its very unfair to generalise and say more often than not the underage teams are not coached well enough.
The club game can and should be both. It is a production line for pros as well as community based organisation for those who want to play on to adult level and more needs to be done to help those playing socially within schools at 3rds, 4ths level in the schools and help keep them in the sport as much as those on the show piece sides who compete in the schools senior cup.
I don't have enough experience of the Dublin club game at underage level to feel qualified enough to comment on it but have plenty of experience of coaching and being involved in a rural club and seeing all the problems of poor coaching and DAD coaching. From a purely observational level the bigger Dublin clubs seem a bit better coached but many of the rural clubs are struggling to get coaches and from years of coaching and being a parent the coaching standards and politics are woeful if you want to develop top quality pro rugby talent. If what you want is a community based organisation for 'fun rugby' then it's fine, lots of energetic and willing helpers but very few actual top quality coaches. I have seen it and the standards are generally poor if you want to develop top talent. I am not saying this is wrong (as there is a huge positive to community sport) but it is what it is. In my opinion the system is beset with problems if you want to develop top talent, if you want a community club which is a bit of fun for kids, it's less of a problem.

Not getting at anyone as I fully understand the community club positives but if you want to pull more talent into the PRO game from outside the south Dublin school pool things do need change. If you don't want to alter it, it's fine too. Just being realistic.
You are making far too many generalisations and my experience from reffing and coaching sides playing against Leinster sides doesnt show that to be the case and many of the dublin clubs dont field in youths rugby or in the youths-schools and it isnt the same.
I wouldnt say many rural clubs are that bad. there is plenty as bad within city clubs and some schools.

The sport isnt about producing players to pro level. Its a part of it but only a small part. and in youths rugby even more than the schools its why the development systems and the 5 regional squads and the development office who run that programme leading to shane horgan cup and then youths team which is showing the positives.
Not disagreeing with you, love kids being involved in the game, the community aspect of it and local people being involved but what SOB is getting at is losing talent and the difference between the clubs and schools. I think it is more pronounced in many rural clubs as they have less resources but that isn't more than a passing point but of course a tetchy subject with the Dublin v rural divide so understand its an emotive subject.

If people are happy with the current status quo of the pro game being largely fed from the ultra competitive largely fee paying South Dublin (mainly) Schools that is fine. I think what SOB is pointing at is that he might feel it's time to push outside this comfort zone and if so things have to change as the current club structure and coaching level isn't up to scratch in terms of player development at the top level.

In one respect you can argue to leave alone, let the elite schools do the heavy lifting for the pro game and leave the clubs as largely social and community organisations but you can also argue that this keeps elite rugby as a preserve for those who can afford to send their kids to Rock or Michaels etc.

I can see the logic in leaving it as it is but let's not kid ourselves that the current club game is anything close to the elite schools, it is not. The elite schools are miles ahead, not a criticism just a fact. I think that is all SOB is pointing at and it is an interesting discussion point in terms of where the game goes in Leinster.

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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by Spellster »

More investment and help for the club game is always a good thing but it should be acknowledged that the clubs are producing a reasonable amount of players. Off the top of my head there is:

Dooley/Milne, Delahunt/McElroy, Vakh/Tadhg/Aungier, Deeney/Alan O'Connor/Dave O'Connor, Izuchukwu, SOB, Boyle, Copeland, Frawley, COB, Adam Byrne, Tom Daly.

This is excluding players who would have played mostly club until the last 2 years at a boarding school like Conor Oliver as well.

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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by Spellster »

Double Post.

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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by curates_egg »

Spellster wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 6:31 am
This is excluding players who would have played mostly club until the last 2 years at a boarding school like Conor Oliver as well.
And he who shall not be named, now down in the recovery room in Limerick.

Despite “elite rugby schools” dumping loads of money into the game, there seem to be at least as many players coming through clubs this decade as the previous one. And that seems to be part of a concerted effort by Leinster Rugby.

Would SOB’s article not be a more accurate description of the previous decade (when he emerged)?

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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by mildlyinterested »

Spellster wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 6:31 am
More investment and help for the club game is always a good thing but it should be acknowledged that the clubs are producing a reasonable amount of players. Off the top of my head there is:

Dooley/Milne, Delahunt/McElroy, Vakh/Tadhg/Aungier, Deeney/Alan O'Connor/Dave O'Connor, Izuchukwu, SOB, Boyle, Copeland, Frawley, COB, Adam Byrne, Tom Daly.

This is excluding players who would have played mostly club until the last 2 years at a boarding school like Conor Oliver as well.
Delahunt, Milne, David O'Connor, Izuchukwu, Copeland went to rugby schools.

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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by riocard911 »

mildlyinterested wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 10:46 am
Spellster wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 6:31 am
More investment and help for the club game is always a good thing but it should be acknowledged that the clubs are producing a reasonable amount of players. Off the top of my head there is:

Dooley/Milne, Delahunt/McElroy, Vakh/Tadhg/Aungier, Deeney/Alan O'Connor/Dave O'Connor, Izuchukwu, SOB, Boyle, Copeland, Frawley, COB, Adam Byrne, Tom Daly.

This is excluding players who would have played mostly club until the last 2 years at a boarding school like Conor Oliver as well.
Delahunt, Milne, David O'Connor, Izuchukwu, Copeland went to rugby schools.

Aungier didn't just play for Suttonians RFC, but also for on the Junior Cup and Senior Cup St. Fintan's High School teams. The cooperation between both of these organisations seems to have been quite fruitful in recent years. It probably helps, that their respective grounds adjoin each other.

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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by ormond lad »

riocard911 wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 3:14 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 10:46 am
Spellster wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 6:31 am
More investment and help for the club game is always a good thing but it should be acknowledged that the clubs are producing a reasonable amount of players. Off the top of my head there is:

Dooley/Milne, Delahunt/McElroy, Vakh/Tadhg/Aungier, Deeney/Alan O'Connor/Dave O'Connor, Izuchukwu, SOB, Boyle, Copeland, Frawley, COB, Adam Byrne, Tom Daly.

This is excluding players who would have played mostly club until the last 2 years at a boarding school like Conor Oliver as well.
Delahunt, Milne, David O'Connor, Izuchukwu, Copeland went to rugby schools.

Aungier didn't just play for Suttonians RFC, but also for on the Junior Cup and Senior Cup St. Fintan's High School teams. The cooperation between both of these organisations seems to have been quite fruitful in recent years. It probably helps, that their respective grounds adjoin each other.
Fintans were down the grades so not really the same as anything else. Aungier helped them go up through the grades in schools rugby.
Bit more of that cooperation would be good in dublin especially to get the clubs to continue fielding more sides at age grade. Make it easier to Have those who may play social rugby in school on 3rds, 4ths, 5ths etc play with a club

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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by backrower8 »

Dave Cahill wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 4:10 pm
Relying too much on the schools system is like the taxi drivers back in the 80s and early 90s who took out mortgages based on the value of their plates.
Aside from the strengths Leinster (and Irish) Rugby miss out on from a lack of diversity in our squads, the over reliance on a small number of schools is a medium-to-high risk in Leinster/Irish rugby. It even reaches into the stability of PRO16, Champions Cup…potentially further still.

We cannot get around the fact that we are mainly building Irish rugby in somebody else’s ‘property’. Schools are governed and legislated for wholly separate to the IRFU.

There have been incidents in the not too distant past, but in today’s environment and understanding around concussion, if some schoolboy had a serious injury playing rugby there would be a high chance of a school board choosing to rebalance their commitment to rugby. This would lead to a contagion effect with other schools doing the same and the slack in professional players would not be adequately made up by the clubs.

This is not an inevitability, but there is a reasonably strong chance of it happening.

Solutions? I am not sure there are any real ones. (1) IRFU to champion safety as the sports #1 priority. A bit like Climate Change, the Genie is out of the bottle and if it isn’t #1 the consequences will overhaul everything. (2) Set progressive, rolling targets for rebalancing the proportion of pro players that come from clubs and ‘rugby schools’ (and Michael’s, Clongowes & Blackrock in particular). Continuing to overly rely on these three especially is very bad planning.

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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by riocard911 »

backrower8 wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 1:55 pm
Dave Cahill wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 4:10 pm
Relying too much on the schools system is like the taxi drivers back in the 80s and early 90s who took out mortgages based on the value of their plates.
Aside from the strengths Leinster (and Irish) Rugby miss out on from a lack of diversity in our squads, the over reliance on a small number of schools is a medium-to-high risk in Leinster/Irish rugby. It even reaches into the stability of PRO16, Champions Cup…potentially further still.

We cannot get around the fact that we are mainly building Irish rugby in somebody else’s ‘property’. Schools are governed and legislated for wholly separate to the IRFU.

There have been incidents in the not too distant past, but in today’s environment and understanding around concussion, if some schoolboy had a serious injury playing rugby there would be a high chance of a school board choosing to rebalance their commitment to rugby. This would lead to a contagion effect with other schools doing the same and the slack in professional players would not be adequately made up by the clubs.

This is not an inevitability, but there is a reasonably strong chance of it happening.

Solutions? I am not sure there are any real ones. (1) IRFU to champion safety as the sports #1 priority. A bit like Climate Change, the Genie is out of the bottle and if it isn’t #1 the consequences will overhaul everything. (2) Set progressive, rolling targets for rebalancing the proportion of pro players that come from clubs and ‘rugby schools’ (and Michael’s, Clongowes & Blackrock in particular). Continuing to overly rely on these three especially is very bad planning.
All the eggs in the one basket is never good.

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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by ronk »

riocard911 wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 2:00 pm
backrower8 wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 1:55 pm
Dave Cahill wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 4:10 pm
Relying too much on the schools system is like the taxi drivers back in the 80s and early 90s who took out mortgages based on the value of their plates.
Aside from the strengths Leinster (and Irish) Rugby miss out on from a lack of diversity in our squads, the over reliance on a small number of schools is a medium-to-high risk in Leinster/Irish rugby. It even reaches into the stability of PRO16, Champions Cup…potentially further still.

We cannot get around the fact that we are mainly building Irish rugby in somebody else’s ‘property’. Schools are governed and legislated for wholly separate to the IRFU.

There have been incidents in the not too distant past, but in today’s environment and understanding around concussion, if some schoolboy had a serious injury playing rugby there would be a high chance of a school board choosing to rebalance their commitment to rugby. This would lead to a contagion effect with other schools doing the same and the slack in professional players would not be adequately made up by the clubs.

This is not an inevitability, but there is a reasonably strong chance of it happening.

Solutions? I am not sure there are any real ones. (1) IRFU to champion safety as the sports #1 priority. A bit like Climate Change, the Genie is out of the bottle and if it isn’t #1 the consequences will overhaul everything. (2) Set progressive, rolling targets for rebalancing the proportion of pro players that come from clubs and ‘rugby schools’ (and Michael’s, Clongowes & Blackrock in particular). Continuing to overly rely on these three especially is very bad planning.
All the eggs in the one basket is never good.
Well if you can’t afford to lose a single egg then you May as well keep them in a single basket. But that obviously doesn’t apply here.

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Dave Cahill
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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by Dave Cahill »

backrower8 wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 1:55 pm
Dave Cahill wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 4:10 pm
Relying too much on the schools system is like the taxi drivers back in the 80s and early 90s who took out mortgages based on the value of their plates.
Aside from the strengths Leinster (and Irish) Rugby miss out on from a lack of diversity in our squads, the over reliance on a small number of schools is a medium-to-high risk in Leinster/Irish rugby. It even reaches into the stability of PRO16, Champions Cup…potentially further still.

We cannot get around the fact that we are mainly building Irish rugby in somebody else’s ‘property’. Schools are governed and legislated for wholly separate to the IRFU.

There have been incidents in the not too distant past, but in today’s environment and understanding around concussion, if some schoolboy had a serious injury playing rugby there would be a high chance of a school board choosing to rebalance their commitment to rugby. This would lead to a contagion effect with other schools doing the same and the slack in professional players would not be adequately made up by the clubs.

This is not an inevitability, but there is a reasonably strong chance of it happening.

Solutions? I am not sure there are any real ones. (1) IRFU to champion safety as the sports #1 priority. A bit like Climate Change, the Genie is out of the bottle and if it isn’t #1 the consequences will overhaul everything. (2) Set progressive, rolling targets for rebalancing the proportion of pro players that come from clubs and ‘rugby schools’ (and Michael’s, Clongowes & Blackrock in particular). Continuing to overly rely on these three especially is very bad planning.
More to do with at some stage someone is going to realise that giving 90-100 million a year to private companies accessible only to the best off in our society isn't a great idea - and when that happens the schools will have to kiss their rugby programmes goodbye
I have Bumbleflex

riocard911
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Re: SOB's perspective on underage club rugby in the province:

Post by riocard911 »

Dave Cahill wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 2:57 pm
backrower8 wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 1:55 pm
Dave Cahill wrote:
January 1st, 2021, 4:10 pm
Relying too much on the schools system is like the taxi drivers back in the 80s and early 90s who took out mortgages based on the value of their plates.
Aside from the strengths Leinster (and Irish) Rugby miss out on from a lack of diversity in our squads, the over reliance on a small number of schools is a medium-to-high risk in Leinster/Irish rugby. It even reaches into the stability of PRO16, Champions Cup…potentially further still.

We cannot get around the fact that we are mainly building Irish rugby in somebody else’s ‘property’. Schools are governed and legislated for wholly separate to the IRFU.

There have been incidents in the not too distant past, but in today’s environment and understanding around concussion, if some schoolboy had a serious injury playing rugby there would be a high chance of a school board choosing to rebalance their commitment to rugby. This would lead to a contagion effect with other schools doing the same and the slack in professional players would not be adequately made up by the clubs.

This is not an inevitability, but there is a reasonably strong chance of it happening.

Solutions? I am not sure there are any real ones. (1) IRFU to champion safety as the sports #1 priority. A bit like Climate Change, the Genie is out of the bottle and if it isn’t #1 the consequences will overhaul everything. (2) Set progressive, rolling targets for rebalancing the proportion of pro players that come from clubs and ‘rugby schools’ (and Michael’s, Clongowes & Blackrock in particular). Continuing to overly rely on these three especially is very bad planning.
More to do with at some stage someone is going to realise that giving 90-100 million a year to private companies accessible only to the best off in our society isn't a great idea - and when that happens the schools will have to kiss their rugby programmes goodbye
Bravo, Dave!!! :happy clapper: :happy clapper: :happy clapper:

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