Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

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leinsterforever
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by leinsterforever »

joooooe wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 9:23 am
Gearzbox2 wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 11:09 pm
cried off
Is it dark down there with your head in the sand? I suppose it has the benefit of keeping you safe from concussion.

Worse again is that the usual suspect (I'd love to pluralise it but he is in a league of his own) hailed this post as "a rational, mature assessment".
He broke down and had to cry off. After 24 minutes, I think it was.

'Cry off' means to pull out of doing something, not that he was in tears or something.

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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

leinsterforever wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 11:53 pm
joooooe wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 9:23 am
Gearzbox2 wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 11:09 pm
cried off
Is it dark down there with your head in the sand? I suppose it has the benefit of keeping you safe from concussion.

Worse again is that the usual suspect (I'd love to pluralise it but he is in a league of his own) hailed this post as "a rational, mature assessment".
He broke down and had to cry off. After 24 minutes, I think it was.

'Cry off' means to pull out of doing something, not that he was in tears or something.
Cry off - “go back on a promise or fail to keep to an arrangement”

This is a lot different from being replaced due to a suspected concussion

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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by curates_egg »

Oldschoolsocks wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 8:13 am
leinsterforever wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 11:53 pm
joooooe wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 9:23 am


Is it dark down there with your head in the sand? I suppose it has the benefit of keeping you safe from concussion.

Worse again is that the usual suspect (I'd love to pluralise it but he is in a league of his own) hailed this post as "a rational, mature assessment".
He broke down and had to cry off. After 24 minutes, I think it was.

'Cry off' means to pull out of doing something, not that he was in tears or something.
Cry off - “go back on a promise or fail to keep to an arrangement”

This is a lot different from being replaced due to a suspected concussion
A far cry from it :wink:

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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

Ahhh touché :D

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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by backrower8 »

Dave Cahill wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 1:42 am
Blueberry wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 10:55 pm

Leinster camp dealing with Covid, did well to get a team on the pitch in this farcical season , we lose to the Westies in an empty RDS with kids on the pitch and a rag taggle team and we are going nuts.
Our starting front five had over 700 Leinster caps, our starting half backs over 300, we brought on 4 Irish Internationals. Win or lose - whatever, there is no excuse for that performance. If we played our academy side there would be no excuse for that performance.
+1

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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by backrower8 »

joooooe wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 9:23 am
Gearzbox2 wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 11:09 pm
cried off
Is it dark down there with your head in the sand? I suppose it has the benefit of keeping you safe from concussion.

Worse again is that the usual suspect (I'd love to pluralise it but he is in a league of his own) hailed this post as "a rational, mature assessment".
The only point I didn’t agree with on the post I commended, was the “cried off” reference which is why I said I wasn’t sure why Sexton left the field but I assumed it was for a HIA.

Happy New Year fella.

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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by backrower8 »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 11:05 am
The Citadel hasn't fallen. There were clearly numerous factors involved in this very poor performance, including at least the following:

* Injury unavailability;
* Covid Unavailability;
* International Duty unavailability;
* Limited match-Squad training (possibly Christmas and Covid-related);
* Experimental, out-of-position, selections, possibly with "guidance" from Nucifora;
* Random injuries in-match (2/3 HIA, 1 Blood injury);
* Under-performance by experienced players (Sexton, McGrath, RO'L, Tracy, Toner, Leavy);
* Poor Unit performances (Line-out, Half-backs, Back Three);
* Very poor timing of substitutions (Dooley & Bent);

On the other hand, we learned, or confirmed, a fair bit from last night's performance including:

* Putting on a Blue jersey doesn't automatically make players good enough;
* Defence is essential to win games, despite capacity to score tries;
* Displays at "A" level are not any basis for senior selection (e.g. O'Reilly & Smith are currently not good enough);
* Cronin can still contribute at senior level and his throwing is more dependible than Treacy;
* Hawkshaw is a very competent out-half, even behind a pack under pressure and playing outside a poor passer (McGrath);
* Turner has become a useful centre, despite his physique;
* A wealth of back-row players does not automatically give you a good, never mind great, back-row unit;
* Jimmy O'Brien is not yet a multi-positional player at this level;
* Peter Dooley & Michael Bent are worth their weight in gold - IMO, both were among our best performers last night;
* Baird needs coaching in the defensive duties of a No 6;
* RO'L isn't a mid-field leader or a No 12.

As has often been stated, you usually learn more in defeat than victory and that was certainly the case last night. However, the next three weeks will be a much clearer indication as to whether we are facing a crisis.
This post is the definition of having your cake AND eating it.

In particular the judgement netted out to the debutants and ROL but not a sausage about the caustic effect of the Alpha Player in Irish Rugby having a shocker not worthy of an Academy player. His kick-offs were kick passes to a grateful Jack Carty, and that was the least of his errors.

Once again, for the protectionists, he was the best 10 of the Pro era, but things are unwinding at a great pace. No, he wasn’t the only problem during his 20 very odd minutes…but you cannot write in detail about the issues of the night and leave Johnny off with “under-performance” on his report card. He is the Alpha and is paid to be the Alpha and his input on the night was alarmingly bad and it must have been a shock for everyone else, especially 2 debutants outside him, to watch him implode before their eyes.

Wakey-wakey

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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by carlow man »

Its interesting how everyone is throwing Sexton under the bus for a below par 24 mins. I'd take more exception to the performance of luke McGrath who, for an experienced leader and the captain for the night, which was shocking. Brainless again under pressure. Awful decision making, poor passing and that pathetic attempt at a conversion after Penny's try. The only thing he did well all match was score his try. If jgp was on the bench I would have brought him on at ht. McGrath seems to have regressed so much in the last 12 months. He started well enough in the pro 14 this season but as far as the big games go, I'd choose jgp all day.

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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by wixfjord »

So I re-watched the first 24 mins for my sins to see what people were on about with Sexton's performance.

Here's every major contribution and touch of the ball. Feel free to take a look back, but I'm pretty sure I've captured it all in this.

0-5 minutes:
Simple pass to ROL who threw it behind JOB causing us to get scragged.
Tackle made in which he attempted to hold up O'Sullivan.

5-10 minutes:
Solid kick to touch from scrum penalty from Leinster 5 metre to Leinster 10 metre line.
Tackle made on Daly.

10-15 minutes:
Kick off down the middle to Blade, collects ball and brings into contact. DK cuts inside and throws pass to touch.
Pass out the back to DK.
Tackle on Masterson.
22 drop off after Carty miss that Toner gets hand to and knocks on.
Miss pass to DK.

15-20 minutes:
Kick to touch from pen from 22 to Connacht 10 metre line.
Tackled by Buckley who knocks on in tackle.
Goes down on his knees after tackle, attended to by medics. Likely where injury occurred.
Skip pass from scrum to JOB who clears with left boot.
Catches and returns kick from outside 22. Kicks long to Wooton.
Miss pass to ROL who kicks low behind Porch.

20-24 minutes:
No contributions. Goes off for HIA after second Connacht try and doesn't return.


And that's it. That's literally all the touches of the ball Sexton received and all the major impacts he had.

So basically he did nothing of note at all, good or bad. We barely had the ball for the time he was on.

So what the hell you (and others) are on about that he 'had a shocker', was 'alarmingly bad' and imploded I've no idea. Total nonsense.

As for his 'kick-offs were kick passes to a grateful Jack Carty'. He kicked off once after their first try and kicked a 22 after Carty miss. Neither went to Carty.

Wakey wakey indeed.

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Dave Cahill
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by Dave Cahill »

wixfjord wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 10:09 pm
So I re-watched the first 24 mins for my sins to see what people were on about with Sexton's performance.

Here's every major contribution and touch of the ball. Feel free to take a look back, but I'm pretty sure I've captured it all in this.

0-5 minutes:
Simple pass to ROL who threw it behind JOB causing us to get scragged.
Tackle made in which he attempted to hold up O'Sullivan.

5-10 minutes:
Solid kick to touch from scrum penalty from Leinster 5 metre to Leinster 10 metre line.
Tackle made on Daly.

10-15 minutes:
Kick off down the middle to Blade, collects ball and brings into contact. DK cuts inside and throws pass to touch.
Pass out the back to DK.
Tackle on Masterson.
22 drop off after Carty miss that Toner gets hand to and knocks on.
Miss pass to DK.

15-20 minutes:
Kick to touch from pen from 22 to Connacht 10 metre line.
Tackled by Buckley who knocks on in tackle.
Goes down on his knees after tackle, attended to by medics. Likely where injury occurred.
Skip pass from scrum to JOB who clears with left boot.
Catches and returns kick from outside 22. Kicks long to Wooton.
Miss pass to ROL who kicks low behind Porch.

20-24 minutes:
No contributions. Goes off for HIA after second Connacht try and doesn't return.


And that's it. That's literally all the touches of the ball Sexton received and all the major impacts he had.

So basically he did nothing of note at all, good or bad. We barely had the ball for the time he was on.

So what the hell you (and others) are on about that he 'had a shocker', was 'alarmingly bad' and imploded I've no idea. Total nonsense.

As for his 'kick-offs were kick passes to a grateful Jack Carty'. He kicked off once after their first try and kicked a 22 after Carty miss. Neither went to Carty.

Wakey wakey indeed.

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Peg Leg
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by Peg Leg »

Joe Schmidt used to manufacture a poor performance when needed. I don't wish to take away from Connacht's dominant performance, but it is good timing for a kick up the arse. We've played within ourselves and yet continued to win over the past few weeks.
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by Dexter »

Peg Leg wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 10:57 pm
Joe Schmidt used to manufacture a poor performance when needed. I don't wish to take away from Connacht's dominant performance, but it is good timing for a kick up the arse. We've played within ourselves and yet continued to win over the past few weeks.
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by hugonaut »

wixfjord wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 10:09 pm
So I re-watched the first 24 mins for my sins to see what people were on about with Sexton's performance.

Here's every major contribution and touch of the ball. Feel free to take a look back, but I'm pretty sure I've captured it all in this.

0-5 minutes:
Simple pass to ROL who threw it behind JOB causing us to get scragged.
Tackle made in which he attempted to hold up O'Sullivan.

5-10 minutes:
Solid kick to touch from scrum penalty from Leinster 5 metre to Leinster 10 metre line.
Tackle made on Daly.

10-15 minutes:
Kick off down the middle to Blade, collects ball and brings into contact. DK cuts inside and throws pass to touch.
Pass out the back to DK.
Tackle on Masterson.
22 drop off after Carty miss that Toner gets hand to and knocks on.
Miss pass to DK.

15-20 minutes:
Kick to touch from pen from 22 to Connacht 10 metre line.
Tackled by Buckley who knocks on in tackle.
Goes down on his knees after tackle, attended to by medics. Likely where injury occurred.
Skip pass from scrum to JOB who clears with left boot.
Catches and returns kick from outside 22. Kicks long to Wooton.
Miss pass to ROL who kicks low behind Porch.

20-24 minutes:
No contributions. Goes off for HIA after second Connacht try and doesn't return.


And that's it. That's literally all the touches of the ball Sexton received and all the major impacts he had.

So basically he did nothing of note at all, good or bad. We barely had the ball for the time he was on.

So what the hell you (and others) are on about that he 'had a shocker', was 'alarmingly bad' and imploded I've no idea. Total nonsense.

As for his 'kick-offs were kick passes to a grateful Jack Carty'. He kicked off once after their first try and kicked a 22 after Carty miss. Neither went to Carty.

Wakey wakey indeed.
Very interesting Wixfjord, and thanks for spending your time doing that analysis.

From my perspective, Sexton's body language very obviously tends towards the negative on the pitch and this colours a lot of views on him. He shows all his stresses. Other people temper their reactions to show less of their stress, or some people don't feel the same levels of stress.

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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by Blueberry »

wixfjord wrote:
January 4th, 2021, 10:09 pm
So I re-watched the first 24 mins for my sins to see what people were on about with Sexton's performance.

Here's every major contribution and touch of the ball. Feel free to take a look back, but I'm pretty sure I've captured it all in this.

0-5 minutes:
Simple pass to ROL who threw it behind JOB causing us to get scragged.
Tackle made in which he attempted to hold up O'Sullivan.

5-10 minutes:
Solid kick to touch from scrum penalty from Leinster 5 metre to Leinster 10 metre line.
Tackle made on Daly.

10-15 minutes:
Kick off down the middle to Blade, collects ball and brings into contact. DK cuts inside and throws pass to touch.
Pass out the back to DK.
Tackle on Masterson.
22 drop off after Carty miss that Toner gets hand to and knocks on.
Miss pass to DK.

15-20 minutes:
Kick to touch from pen from 22 to Connacht 10 metre line.
Tackled by Buckley who knocks on in tackle.
Goes down on his knees after tackle, attended to by medics. Likely where injury occurred.
Skip pass from scrum to JOB who clears with left boot.
Catches and returns kick from outside 22. Kicks long to Wooton.
Miss pass to ROL who kicks low behind Porch.

20-24 minutes:
No contributions. Goes off for HIA after second Connacht try and doesn't return.


And that's it. That's literally all the touches of the ball Sexton received and all the major impacts he had.

So basically he did nothing of note at all, good or bad. We barely had the ball for the time he was on.

So what the hell you (and others) are on about that he 'had a shocker', was 'alarmingly bad' and imploded I've no idea. Total nonsense.

As for his 'kick-offs were kick passes to a grateful Jack Carty'. He kicked off once after their first try and kicked a 22 after Carty miss. Neither went to Carty.

Wakey wakey indeed.
Brilliant post, thanks for the work. But Sexton is a muppet, over the hill, entirely responsible for the loss and at the end of his useful rugby life and should be no more than a water bottle carrier or perhaps he could help dismantle the seating in the RDS as we won't be needing it this year...............he is good for nothing else. :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

I think that far too simplistic an analysis and I’d disagree with it.

For a start, you missed his very first contribution which was to put up a bomb after standing deep in our 22 and it only went about 5m outside the 22. Good kick tbf but why put ourselves under pressure like that from the word go?

The tackle in our 22 was poor because he stood off and let Penny (Penny poor too btw) make the tackle and then we conceded more metres than we should have. Line speed needed to be much quicker IMO.

It was very much his fault when he he threw the ball into touch because he ate up the ground and DK was right to go back inside. Hard to know if there was a call or not but regardless Johnny was poor, that pass was never going to be on with the defenders in front of them and being so close to the touchline.

He was nowhere to be seen when Luke went into contact and Molony threw the intercept. Call me old fashioned but I want at least one of my two main decision makers close to the action directing things.

Think you also missed when he dallied on the 22 and threw a last second pass to MOR which put him/us under a lot of pressure but we got away with it because of a high tackle.

He was really slow up on Carty when we lost a lineout which meant that he had loads of time to get the kick down to our 22. That put us under pressure and for some reason we decided to move it from that ruck and that’s when Johnny got tackled man and ball by Buckley and got injured. That was poor decision making and as I’ve said there were other examples of that.

You can have a poor game without many noticeable howlers, and IMO he looked a bit off the pace and his decision making poor.

Still not sure how that’s confirmation bias on my part considering I still think he’s our best out half.

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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by Blueberry »

Were there some external factors that had a substantial impact on the team we were able to put on the pitch - I think so......

Did a couple of experienced players have below average contributions - yes I think so...........but you can say that in pretty much any game if you micro examine everyone.

Add it together with a really good and motivated display from Connacht and we lost a game.

For me the external factors were the big and uncontrollable factors at play here.

Do we:

A: Start taking about unacceptable performances and start writing players off and having a hissy fit.

B: Accept that we can't win every game, look at the reality of why we lost and move on.

Like LeRouxisPhat I think Sexton is our best outhalf atm - did he have a great game in his 24 mins on the pitch no - is focusing on Sexton as a major reason why we lost this game daft - yes I think it is.

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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by wixfjord »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
January 5th, 2021, 12:32 pm
I think that far too simplistic an analysis and I’d disagree with it.

Well I mean it's literally what happened.

I didn't mention your 'confirmation bias' at all, you took that to be aimed at you for some reason.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I'm not saying Sexton played well, he just didn't do that much good or bad as we didn't have the ball for the majority of the time he was on.

For me he was the least of our problems on Saturday. In fact his partner at halfback was a far bigger issue for almost the full 80.

And some of the stuff above about him having a 'shocker' is just cr@p.

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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by riocard911 »

The shocker for me was the fact, that faced with super aggressive Connacht D and linespeed, which were putting us under massive pressure, we just didn't batten down the hatches, weather the storm, play territory via kicks to touch and let the opposition blow themselves out. No instead we repeatedly ran risky moves out of our own 22 putting ourselves under pressure. I mean, that skip pass which got us into difficulties and led directly to Connacht's third try was mad stuff and essentially cost us the game. Up until them we might have won. Thereafter we had essentially no chance. That we kept digging the hole deeper in the first half, instead of implementing plan B is what disappointed me most.

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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

wixfjord wrote:
January 5th, 2021, 1:03 pm
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
January 5th, 2021, 12:32 pm
I think that far too simplistic an analysis and I’d disagree with it.

Well I mean it's literally what happened.

I didn't mention your 'confirmation bias' at all, you took that to be aimed at you for some reason.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I'm not saying Sexton played well, he just didn't do that much good or bad as we didn't have the ball for the majority of the time he was on.

For me he was the least of our problems on Saturday. In fact his partner at halfback was a far bigger issue for almost the full 80.

And some of the stuff above about him having a 'shocker' is just cr@p.
Telling what happened doesn’t actually tell the story though. You could say someone passed to someone to their right while the omitting that they blew an overlap to the left, and tbf you did literally leave out two things he did on the ball, which were quite important considering it was only in about 20 minutes of rugby.

In a previous post you said about two people commenting about Sexton and that it was confirmation bias, and given that I was one of the two I’m not sure how you would think that I wouldn’t think that would apply to me.

I’m certainly not blaming Sexton for the performance either, and actually I originally mentioned him because I was saying that JOB carried on where he left off in terms of just moving the ball without holding the defence on the inside.

I’m very confused as to how your defence of Sexton tallies with your constant criticism about sloppy play and a drop in standards over the last few months. I’d have thought his performer perfectly summed up how are basics are not where they need to be.

I obviously agree that a lot of the criticism was way OTT btw, but one of those opinions should be totally ignored anyway.

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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by wixfjord »

Also just on some of the points you mention above LRIP.
For a start, you missed his very first contribution which was to put up a bomb after standing deep in our 22 and it only went about 5m outside the 22. Good kick tbf but why put ourselves under pressure like that from the word go?
A perfectly executed kick that allowed our 15 to put pressure on and got us the ball back? Don't see any issue with that personally. In fact that's a well worn page in our 'exit' playbook.
He was nowhere to be seen when Luke went into contact and Molony threw the intercept.
That's because he was the one who made the tackle on Daly at the other side of the pitch and was stuck in the ruck. One phase later the ball was intercepted on opposite side of the pitch.
Think you also missed when he dallied on the 22 and threw a last second pass to MOR which put him/us under a lot of pressure but we got away with it because of a high tackle.
He drew a defender and put MOR into running space which caused both a penalty and led to us getting a 3 on 2 on the left hand side. Again, I'm not sure why that's a bad thing?

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