Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

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joooooe
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by joooooe »

Gearzbox2 wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 11:09 pm
cried off
Is it dark down there with your head in the sand? I suppose it has the benefit of keeping you safe from concussion.

Worse again is that the usual suspect (I'd love to pluralise it but he is in a league of his own) hailed this post as "a rational, mature assessment".

sunshiner1
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by sunshiner1 »

A shame we lost but it was going to happen at some stage and under the circumstances I don't think it warrants the meltdown some people are having on the thread. As one poster wrote it could be a good kick up the ass to stop complacency from coming in. Also got to give kudos to Tom Daly of Connacht. I never rated him with the U20's or with Leinster but he's been doing well all season for Connacht.

Ruckedtobits
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by Ruckedtobits »

The Citadel hasn't fallen. There were clearly numerous factors involved in this very poor performance, including at least the following:

* Injury unavailability;
* Covid Unavailability;
* International Duty unavailability;
* Limited match-Squad training (possibly Christmas and Covid-related);
* Experimental, out-of-position, selections, possibly with "guidance" from Nucifora;
* Random injuries in-match (2/3 HIA, 1 Blood injury);
* Under-performance by experienced players (Sexton, McGrath, RO'L, Tracy, Toner, Leavy);
* Poor Unit performances (Line-out, Half-backs, Back Three);
* Very poor timing of substitutions (Dooley & Bent);

On the other hand, we learned, or confirmed, a fair bit from last night's performance including:

* Putting on a Blue jersey doesn't automatically make players good enough;
* Defence is essential to win games, despite capacity to score tries;
* Displays at "A" level are not any basis for senior selection (e.g. O'Reilly & Smith are currently not good enough);
* Cronin can still contribute at senior level and his throwing is more dependible than Treacy;
* Hawkshaw is a very competent out-half, even behind a pack under pressure and playing outside a poor passer (McGrath);
* Turner has become a useful centre, despite his physique;
* A wealth of back-row players does not automatically give you a good, never mind great, back-row unit;
* Jimmy O'Brien is not yet a multi-positional player at this level;
* Peter Dooley & Michael Bent are worth their weight in gold - IMO, both were among our best performers last night;
* Baird needs coaching in the defensive duties of a No 6;
* RO'L isn't a mid-field leader or a No 12.

As has often been stated, you usually learn more in defeat than victory and that was certainly the case last night. However, the next three weeks will be a much clearer indication as to whether we are facing a crisis.

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ronk
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by ronk »

wixfjord wrote:
January 2nd, 2021, 10:17 pm
I would assume the reason was because JOB had deputised for the last few training sessions as sub outhalf, and Hawkshaw came in late.

But still, if a guy is good enough to sit on the bench he's good enough to play his position.
That’s what I thought. Other possibilities are that Hawshaw wasn’t 100% and they would only use him break glass or that JOB might be covering 10 in a bigger game and Leo wanted to give him time.

That was a tough test for a 10 off slow ball into the teeth of a rush defence that was working well.

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Dexter
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by Dexter »

Leinster win games with a bonus point continuously, even when going very deep into the squad and academy.
Verdict: the league is rubbish and not up to scratch, can't provide preparation for the "good" sides

Leinster lose one game, playing very poorly with a patchwork squad, against a good Connacht side playing very well.
Verdict: Leinster just not up to scratch, players need to be jettison and the remaining ones given a good flogging
Dont Panic!

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outcast eddie
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by outcast eddie »

We were particularly poor, for numerous reasons. Worryingly not all of those reasons can be put right by Friday night and the visit of Ulster.
The odds are good but the goods are odd.

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Experimental
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by Experimental »

There was a lot of disruption coming into this game, our resources were stretched to the absolute limit. Baird was really good again, Hawkshaw and J OBrien played well. You just have to take your hat off to Connacht, I thought they were brilliant. Carty and Blade played really well, but for me G Thornbury was MOTM. On Sexton, youd have to say he was really poor for the mins he was on, and I totally agree with whoever said it set the tone for the game, thats exactly what I saw anyway. We never looked like winning that game.Connacht bet us up, fair play to them, they deserve.

Blueberry
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by Blueberry »

Dexter wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 12:37 pm
Leinster win games with a bonus point continuously, even when going very deep into the squad and academy.
Verdict: the league is rubbish and not up to scratch, can't provide preparation for the "good" sides

Leinster lose one game, playing very poorly with a patchwork squad, against a good Connacht side playing very well.
Verdict: Leinster just not up to scratch, players need to be jettison and the remaining ones given a good flogging
Yup we are a bunch of panickers on this forum !!

I am not getting into the first point you have made as it's spot on , the lose a game and 'fire everyone and they are a disgrace brigade' are boring We can't win every game forever.

The reality of the current league is that it is weak, the Italian teams are weak, Scottish ones not much better at the moment which is a pity as I thought Glasgow were showing potential, the Welsh clubs are a bit of mess and let's be honest Leinster are propping up all of the other Irish provinces to a significant degree. The SA teams will hopefully remedy the situation.

The Leinster schools are the outstanding success story in European Rugby and are producing an unbelievable pool of players year in year out. Nucifora and the IRFU are trying to manage the problem and there isn't any easy fix. The Leinster schools system is so far ahead of anything in the rest of the country I am sure what the solution is to be honest. If you want to get away from situations like Leinster playing a stack of other Leinster players in an Ulster shirt for example how do we fix it ? But I know that the current system of moving Leinster players about to fill gaps doesn't exactly force the other provinces to develop their own talent but of course Leinster can't possibly give playing time to the Daly's, Thornbury's etc and have an 80 player roster. I dunno but perhaps having a majority local player rule is a route forward but no doubt would be shot down by equality legislation or something.

The weakness in the league does cause us problems to a degree when we run into the handful of super powerful English and French teams but it is somewhat crazy to assume even if Leinster had 100% control over its playing base that we could beat any English or French team, they of course have deep player pools and in France endless budgets like the Toulon years of money buying in a Globetrotter team.

We are a victim of our success to a huge degree and it's tricky situation to manage for everyone.

Good problem to have though as we expect to be and have been at the very top table in Euro rugby now for well over a decade. We could be Dragons fans......And well done to Connacht !! Carty was a joy to watch and delighted for him.

And sure all of this gives us lots to moan about.

As a footnote thought that Salanoa looked pretty good for Munster when he came on. Robbing b*stards :mrgreen:

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bails
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by bails »

The problems that yesterday showed are the ones that have shown up over the last few years on occasions when we have been poor. ( Dragons and Benetton at home in 2018/2019)

1. Lack of hunger and being outfought
2. Lack of concentration leading to poor execution of skills
3. Complacency and not giving the opposition due respect
4. Poor game plan or non execution of the game plan.

These are things that are the bare minium required irrespective of what players are selected.

The most dissappointing aspect was the lack of leadership when things started to go wrong. Bad attitude, spreads quickly when yhe leaders have no interest.

Thankfully we arent this bad often, but in light of what we saw last night, we need an experienced hooker to reorganise the line out and an experienced 10 or 12 to keep the young guns on point.

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neiliog93
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by neiliog93 »

Dave Cahill wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 1:44 am
If we don't get a competant hooker from somewhere, and quickly, we can forget Europe
Sale will need to offload players after their salary cap issues and their hooker Akker van der Merwe is an accurate and athletic player, but doesn't come with the salary expectations of a capped Springbok. He would be my choice, and probably achievable. Also, he joined two years ago and signed a two-year contract.
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

alanair
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by alanair »

There are probably posters to this Forum that have never experienced a Leinster Pro-14 defeat ...
as we all now know , it’s really not a nice feeling ... TBH though , this has been coming for a while. We’ve got away with it up to this , with several below par performances this Season so far.
The worrying thing to me however, is that we don’t seem to have addressed the line out malfunction , in evidence from day 1 of this Season.. also , all Connacht ( or any other team to be fair) had to do , was to review the Heineken cup loss to Sarries, to see how to beat us.. ie dice with the offside line and rush at our back line... unfortunately we don’t seem to have worked out a ‘Plan B’ when teams apply this effectively against us.

mildlyinterested
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by mildlyinterested »

neiliog93 wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 3:16 pm
Dave Cahill wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 1:44 am
If we don't get a competant hooker from somewhere, and quickly, we can forget Europe
Sale will need to offload players after their salary cap issues and their hooker Akker van der Merwe is an accurate and athletic player, but doesn't come with the salary expectations of a capped Springbok. He would be my choice, and probably achievable. Also, he joined two years ago and signed a two-year contract.
:lol:

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Sheehan is a competent hooker.

Don’t think we need to sign anyone but there is a major problem there. I think part of the issue is that Ireland has a problem as well so you’ve got a lot of the same players and coaches involved in it for years. For example, when was the last time Leo’s fingerprints wouldn’t be on a Leinster lineout? 2007? Maybe even from before his Leicester days?

I’m not having a go at him, just think we could do with a fresh voice in each setup, even if it’s just on a consultancy basis.

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Experimental
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by Experimental »

When is Dane Coles' Canes contract up ? :P

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

alanair wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 3:36 pm
There are probably posters to this Forum that have never experienced a Leinster Pro-14 defeat ...
as we all now know , it’s really not a nice feeling ... TBH though , this has been coming for a while. We’ve got away with it up to this , with several below par performances this Season so far.
The worrying thing to me however, is that we don’t seem to have addressed the line out malfunction , in evidence from day 1 of this Season.. also , all Connacht ( or any other team to be fair) had to do , was to review the Heineken cup loss to Sarries, to see how to beat us.. ie dice with the offside line and rush at our back line... unfortunately we don’t seem to have worked out a ‘Plan B’ when teams apply this effectively against us.
I thought we saw a plan B in the second half last night. We played more off Luke and attacked the sides of the ruck instead of just throwing deep passes into midfield to lads standing still. Don’t know why we weren’t doing that from the start.

We lacked carriers between the 15s which is partly why I think we brought Turner (not the biggest but he’s a good direct carrier) on instead of Hawkshaw, and unfortunately ROL looked very rusty after his lay off. In the past when we’ve got too deep/lateral we’ve had JOB and Kelleher coming into the line to be more direct but MOR and Smith didn’t really get involved, which is understandable given how young they are etc.

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neiliog93
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by neiliog93 »

mildlyinterested wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 3:37 pm
neiliog93 wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 3:16 pm
Dave Cahill wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 1:44 am
If we don't get a competant hooker from somewhere, and quickly, we can forget Europe
Sale will need to offload players after their salary cap issues and their hooker Akker van der Merwe is an accurate and athletic player, but doesn't come with the salary expectations of a capped Springbok. He would be my choice, and probably achievable. Also, he joined two years ago and signed a two-year contract.
:lol:
Sean Cronin will probably leave at the end of the season, will be 35 and his contract is up. He has no hope of getting back into the Ireland set-up, and there was talk of him leaving before. He might look for one last pay packet abroad, or just retire.

That leaves us with Rónan Kelleher, who will frequently be with the Ireland squad (and who still can't throw), and a 30 year old James Tracy. Tracy has proven that he will never be better than a solid Pro 14 level hooker. That's not good enough for us against the better Pro 14 or Heineken Cup opposition, especially in such a key position and when the South African sides join the Pro 14 next year. He's not going to improve, he'll be 30 before the end of the season.

Dan Sheehan is up and coming, and while his physique is unusual, he could well emerge as a genuine elite level prospect. In the meantime, we need a decent NIQ hooker.

I don't see the problem as next season Fardy will be gone and we will be unlikely to be permitted to sign another NIQ second row. That means we'll have zero NIQ players in the squad; as such, I think it's reasonable for us to sign a good level NIQ hooker for next season, who would be our only NIQ player in the squad.
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gearzbox2
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by Gearzbox2 »

LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 3:42 pm
Sheehan is a competent hooker.

Don’t think we need to sign anyone but there is a major problem there. I think part of the issue is that Ireland has a problem as well so you’ve got a lot of the same players and coaches involved in it for years. For example, when was the last time Leo’s fingerprints wouldn’t be on a Leinster lineout? 2007? Maybe even from before his Leicester days?

I’m not having a go at him, just think we could do with a fresh voice in each setup, even if it’s just on a consultancy basis.

So the other 3 (Kelleher, Cronin, Tracy) are incompetent???
Watched back the game last night to look at lineouts and maul
And from a former hookers perspective (whatever I may know) Tracy underthrew 3, all of which were picked off, one was so easily read and stolen the Connacht man actually delivered the ball to his own 9!!!...calling and throwing execution???

Things did get better after Cronin’s intro, but I reckon it was down to Moloney especially who seemed to call the right option along with some good arrows from Cronin...Cronin did miss 1, seemed a over throw or communication issue

Maul as an attacking weapon seems to be very easily defended against the well coached opposition (sarries, Connacht, Northampton) so it’s a area of big concern as we move forward

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Gearzbox2 wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 5:00 pm
LeRouxIsPHat wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 3:42 pm
Sheehan is a competent hooker.

Don’t think we need to sign anyone but there is a major problem there. I think part of the issue is that Ireland has a problem as well so you’ve got a lot of the same players and coaches involved in it for years. For example, when was the last time Leo’s fingerprints wouldn’t be on a Leinster lineout? 2007? Maybe even from before his Leicester days?

I’m not having a go at him, just think we could do with a fresh voice in each setup, even if it’s just on a consultancy basis.

So the other 3 (Kelleher, Cronin, Tracy) are incompetent???
Watched back the game last night to look at lineouts and maul
And from a former hookers perspective (whatever I may know) Tracy underthrew 3, all of which were picked off, one was so easily read and stolen the Connacht man actually delivered the ball to his own 9!!!...calling and throwing execution???

Things did get better after Cronin’s intro, but I reckon it was down to Moloney especially who seemed to call the right option along with some good arrows from Cronin...Cronin did miss 1, seemed a over throw or communication issue

Maul as an attacking weapon seems to be very easily defended against the well coached opposition (sarries, Connacht, Northampton) so it’s a area of big concern as we move forward
I don’t think the others are incompetent, but my point was that I don’t think we should think about bringing someone else in when we already have an excellent thrower waiting to get his chance.

I also just don’t think we’ll be able to sign anyone any time soon so just have to work with what we’ve got, which is why a coach on a consultancy basis might be the best we can do right now.

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bails
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by bails »

neiliog93 wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 3:16 pm
Dave Cahill wrote:
January 3rd, 2021, 1:44 am
If we don't get a competant hooker from somewhere, and quickly, we can forget Europe
Sale will need to offload players after their salary cap issues and their hooker Akker van der Merwe is an accurate and athletic player, but doesn't come with the salary expectations of a capped Springbok. He would be my choice, and probably achievable. Also, he joined two years ago and signed a two-year contract.

You are joking, he is the worst thrower in the Premiership. He couldn't hit a barn door ! Sale's lineout is the worst in league.
Definetly not who we need !

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munster#1
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Re: Leinster v Connacht Sat 2nd 19.35 Eir Sport

Post by munster#1 »

I think Kevin O Byrne would be a great fit for Leinster.
IMO he is a great player and a very good thrower.

When he was given a good run of games this season he has looked more than capable of playing HC level.

Given that Munster have Scannell, KOB, Marshall and Barron, it might be worth a punt

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