Munster Away 26/12 19:35 Eir Sport 1

[Peg Leg]

Brian Carney?

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Nope, more obscure than that.

Barrie-Jon Mather

My first thought was Flutey, but he never played league. Can you believe he got a Lions test cap?

[the spoofer]

Leinster caps? Johnny Hepworth?

That's him.

[blockhead]

I feel for Neville, in a previous game she was constantly bringing things to Braces attention only for him to ignore her. I’d say his constant dismissals in that gave led to her behavior in this.

Yep, he was a theatrical pr!*k about it too.

I felt bad for her watching it and I imagine that could put her off bringing up things in future games.

You'd think that a former World Rugby Referee of the Year would have a stiffer spine than that Jonny.

[wixfjord]

Cowardly hit on fardy from the supposed hard man of munster rugby. How that clown every earned an iris cap is a mystery. Pro 14 level at best and he still a couple of penalties every game. Dope.

Kleyns Irish caps are the equivalent of us capping that winger from England who played league, can't remember his name. Played a couple of games and then disappeared.

Capping Kleyn will always be Joe's biggest black mark in my book.

Why is capping Kleyn any different to capping Strauss, JGP, Diack, Ah You, White etc.?

[cormac]

Leinster caps? Johnny Hepworth?

That's him.

He was no winger as he ably demonstrated when coming off the bench in that position in our first ever HEC game at the RDs v Bath. Looked like he was running in treacle when he got the ball in space.

He was, however, a passable enough centre.

[the spoofer]

Cowardly hit on fardy from the supposed hard man of munster rugby. How that clown every earned an iris cap is a mystery. Pro 14 level at best and he still a couple of penalties every game. Dope.

Kleyns Irish caps are the equivalent of us capping that winger from England who played league, can't remember his name. Played a couple of games and then disappeared.

Capping Kleyn will always be Joe's biggest black mark in my book.

Why is capping Kleyn any different to capping Strauss, JGP, Diack, Ah You, White etc.?

Because he is so far off international quality. Also, it was at the expense of a proven international player.

[wixfjord]

Kleyns Irish caps are the equivalent of us capping that winger from England who played league, can't remember his name. Played a couple of games and then disappeared.

Capping Kleyn will always be Joe's biggest black mark in my book.

Why is capping Kleyn any different to capping Strauss, JGP, Diack, Ah You, White etc.?

Because he is so far off international quality. Also, it was at the expense of a proven international player.

That's a pretty subjective assessment. I don't think Kleyn is any further off international quality than some of the above. Like he's an established starter in a provincial side at Euro level with physical attributes that not many Irish guys have.

I don't see why selecting him is any worse than others.

I think what you're really saying is 'I'm annoyed Kleyn was selected ahead of Toner'?

[carlow man]

Kleyn is bang average. Anytime he come up against a big powerful pack hes been put in his box. He's miles off international standard. His attributes are hitting rucks and clearouts. All locks are capable of doing that. Doesn't mean it makes you top quality because of your body shape. Plus he's not the smartest lad on the pitch.

[wixfjord]

Kleyn is bang average. Anytime he come up against a big powerful pack hes been put in his box. He's miles off international standard. His attributes are hitting rucks and clearouts. All locks are capable of doing that. Doesn't mean it makes you top quality because of your body shape. Plus he's not the smartest lad on the pitch.

You could say something similar about Quinn Roux to be fair.

I'm not extolling the virtues of Kleyn here btw, I'm just pointing out that there are plenty of average residency players who have been capped across the years.

The only reason Kleyn is such a lightning rod for criticism is because he took Dev's place.

[carlow man]

Not sure how you can say Strauss was average. He was top class until he picked up a bad injury. Wasnt the same player after that. Roux has improved to be fair although he isn't at the level of ryan or Henderson when he is on it. Roux is the next cab of the rank I feel. Dillane is a great option when hes in form. Kleyn even in his best form is way down the list. Him being included in the squad was a surprise to everyone. And a mistake from schmidt who I think expected etzebeth mark 2. More like Elizabeth mark 1.

[Peg Leg]

Cowardly hit on fardy from the supposed hard man of munster rugby. How that clown every earned an iris cap is a mystery. Pro 14 level at best and he still a couple of penalties every game. Dope.

Kleyns Irish caps are the equivalent of us capping that winger from England who played league, can't remember his name. Played a couple of games and then disappeared.

Capping Kleyn will always be Joe's biggest black mark in my book.

Why is capping Kleyn any different to capping Strauss, JGP, Diack, Ah You, White etc.?

Because he was not an improvement on other players available at the time!

[Peg Leg]

Not sure how you can say Strauss was average. He was top class until he picked up a bad injury. Wasnt the same player after that. Roux has improved to be fair although he isn't at the level of ryan or Henderson when he is on it. Roux is the next cab of the rank I feel. Dillane is a great option when hes in form. Kleyn even in his best form is way down the list. Him being included in the squad was a surprise to everyone. And a mistake from schmidt who I think expected etzebeth mark 2. More like Elizabeth mark 1.

He might have been hoping for Etzebeth, but we'd all have been happy with Damien Browne

[wixfjord]

Kleyns Irish caps are the equivalent of us capping that winger from England who played league, can't remember his name. Played a couple of games and then disappeared.

Capping Kleyn will always be Joe's biggest black mark in my book.

Why is capping Kleyn any different to capping Strauss, JGP, Diack, Ah You, White etc.?

Because he was not an improvement on other players available at the time!

Robbie Diack & Rodney Ah You?!

You'd make a fair case on the other three also...

[Peg Leg]

Why is capping Kleyn any different to capping Strauss, JGP, Diack, Ah You, White etc.?

Because he was not an improvement on other players available at the time!

Robbie Diack & Rodney Ah You?!

You'd make a fair case on the other three also...

Your leaving out the importance of the squad that Kleyn was chosen (with his 2 caps).
Ah You was picked when we were down to bare bones and Diack was chosen because Ireland wanted keepsies.

[wixfjord]

Because he was not an improvement on other players available at the time!

Robbie Diack & Rodney Ah You?!

You'd make a fair case on the other three also...

Your leaving out the importance of the squad that Kleyn was chosen (with his 2 caps).
Ah You was picked when we were down to bare bones and Diack was chosen because Ireland wanted keepsies.

Well I was responding to the poster who said 'capping Kleyn will always be Joe's biggest black mark in my book.'

[Flash Gordon]

Not sure how you can say Strauss was average. He was top class until he picked up a bad injury. Wasnt the same player after that. Roux has improved to be fair although he isn't at the level of ryan or Henderson when he is on it. Roux is the next cab of the rank I feel. Dillane is a great option when hes in form. Kleyn even in his best form is way down the list. Him being included in the squad was a surprise to everyone. And a mistake from schmidt who I think expected etzebeth mark 2. More like Elizabeth mark 1.

Strauss wasn't average, you're absolutely right. He was an international quality hooker that made a difference. Over the years we've brought in imports to Leinster and Ireland that have improved what we have - Isa, Rocky, Holwell, Felipe, Hines, Writght, Le Roux, Green, for us for example. For Ireland Stander, Payne, Lowe, Aki and Strauss for example. Don't see Kleyn in that way, feels like a decent provincial player and that's it. Looking at Ryan, Beirne and Hendo and some of the lads coming through you'd hardly see him in the frame to win more caps.

[Peg Leg]

Your leaving out the importance of the squad that Kleyn was chosen (with his 2 caps).
Ah You was picked when we were down to bare bones and Diack was chosen because Ireland wanted keepsies.

Well I was responding to the poster who said 'capping Kleyn will always be Joe's biggest black mark in my book.'

[climbs down off high horse, gets back into box]: Ok then

[riocard911]

Capping Kleyn wasn't the mistake, bringing him to RWC 2019 in place of Toner was.

[the spoofer]

Kleyn is bang average. Anytime he come up against a big powerful pack hes been put in his box. He's miles off international standard. His attributes are hitting rucks and clearouts. All locks are capable of doing that. Doesn't mean it makes you top quality because of your body shape. Plus he's not the smartest lad on the pitch.

You could say something similar about Quinn Roux to be fair.

I'm not extolling the virtues of Kleyn here btw, I'm just pointing out that there are plenty of average residency players who have been capped across the years.

The only reason Kleyn is such a lightning rod for criticism is because he took Dev's place.

Not true and I'm not sure why you are always such a contrarian. Kleyn wouldn't be in the top 4 locks in Leinster (Ryan, Fardy, Dev (although I worry about Dev's decline) and Molony. I haven't seen enough of Baird or Dunne to class them. He does nothing to a really high standard. Perhaps he is a strong scrummager but so is Roux and QR is a better carrier and more effective in defence. Yes, there have been average players capped but in nearly all cases it was in relatively meaningless games (Robbie Diack) or in an emergency (Ah You). Nathan White was a decent prop who could scrummage on the TH in a time when we were struggling for TH.

[ronk]

Jean Klien banned for two weeks for a shoulder on Scott Fardy.

So when you add this in to the things that were missed for both sides (the crooked lineouts, missed penalties, late hits, penalties we shoulda had, penalties they shoulda had) what was the final score?

Or should we just say that 'shoulda, woulda, couldas' in a game don't really add up to a hill of beans?

You either got over the line or you didn't!

Munster are never really beaten, just robbed.

If he’d got red and they had still lost there certainly would have been a lot said.