Leinster v Northampton 19/12 1PM

[wixfjord]

Yes of course, you're right. We might as well write off the season. We're rubbish.

Jaysus Dexter that's weak stuff.

[FLIP]

That's a pure strawman.

Said the bailer to the scarecrow.

[MylesNaGapoleen]

Said this before but I’m very much on board with us making mistakes when we push ourselves to play some really good stuff. That’s going to lead to mistakes but it’s definitely the right way to go and we had been too conservative in the build up the Sarries game. It’s the way we (and Ireland) need to play to be successful and we’re still picking up points and putting in some brilliant performances while we’re developing it/the young players.

agree 100%

[Oldschool]

A game which proved the value of our coaching week by week. The disruption in our backline clearly showed in the absence of cohesion in our passing. Our pack were pedestrian and far too loosely spread out - slow to support at tackles, too lateral in defence.

Forget about extra tries. We got 5 points with five replacement between 2 hrs before kick-off and 10 minutes into the game.

Right now our sub front-row are looking our strongest scrum unit. Our old men are looking our best second row. Our best back-row is undecided.

As for the line-out, it was impossible to judge as we threw at least 6 balls to No 2 in a very strong squally wind. Baird is a fine forward, but not sure yet just where he fits in. Too many knock-ons, missed tackles and not enough clear-outs for a donkey.

Delighted with the BP win in the circumstances.

Baird with current size is not big enough.
Ideally a 6 but his style might not be tight enough
Yet

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I can’t get over how impressive Baird is whenever he speaks to the media. He sounds like a an experienced coach not a rookie player

Get the feeling he’s been preparing for rugby 24/7 since he was old enough to pick up a ball.

[blaker]

Surely there can be an acknowledgement that a 5 point haul is unimpeachably a good thing while concurrently accepting that we played quite poorly at times?

Beyond that, bad days happen all the time and expectations, weather, changes always contribute however concurrently many of our failings are now a theme?

Our line out is poor. It’s a weakness.

Our stand in 10 is playing below himself.

We are having to move away from the multi phase / heavy possession game that brought us success because of law changes.

Several of our cornerstones - Healy, Toner, Fardy, Sexton (prev Kearney) are ageing out of first choice. Big culture / leadership shoes to fill.

We’ve big injuries at first choice TH, 10, 15 )and yesterday everywhere!)

You’d have to assume a lot of players are worried financially / have no clarity on contracts.

I could go on. We’ll top our group in Heino probably and walk into a home semi in Pro14. At the moment though I don’t see is beating the top tier - Toulouse, Exeter, Munster, Clermont - and wouldn’t fancy away games at a few of the others. Munster are clearly on the up and have 5/6 - Casey Healy Witches Coombes - exciting young players on the up. For us this might be a “transition” year where the last of the golden crew drift away and the Cullen crew take over completely.

Glass is more than half full but could do with a top up

EDIT ADDED THE BELOW

Just to confirm that the above doesn’t mean we should accept slippage;
- the lineout, and to a lesser degree scrum, needs to be fixed and it is poor that it hasn’t been
- RB was dropped yesterday
- Dooley should be eyeing up Healy
- Could Ryan do with a rest

[Ruckedtobits]

Surely there can be an acknowledgement that a 5 point haul is unimpeachably a good thing while concurrently accepting that we played quite poorly at times?

Beyond that, bad days happen all the time and expectations, weather, changes always contribute however concurrently many of our failings are now a theme?

Our line out is poor. It’s a weakness.

Our stand in 10 is playing below himself.

We are having to move away from the multi phase / heavy possession game that brought us success because of law changes.

Several of our cornerstones - Healy, Toner, Fardy, Sexton (prev Kearney) are ageing out of first choice. Big culture / leadership shoes to fill.

We’ve big injuries at first choice TH, 10, 15 )and yesterday everywhere!)

You’d have to assume a lot of players are worried financially / have no clarity on contracts.

I could go on. We’ll top our group in Heino probably and walk into a home semi in Pro14. At the moment though I don’t see is beating the top tier - Toulouse, Exeter, Munster, Clermont - and wouldn’t fancy away games at a few of the others. Munster are clearly on the up and have 5/6 - Casey Healy Witches Coombes - exciting young players on the up. For us this might be a “transition” year where the last of the golden crew drift away and the Cullen crew take over completely.

Glass is more than half full but could do with a top up

+1, -1.

We have been weened onto high expectations and it's hard to revert to plain tack.

Totally agree with most of that prognosis, although I wince at the inclusion of Munster in the top tier just yet - Clermont played the second-half with a death wish. To a certain extent, the reaction on this thread is unfair as yesterday we got almost everything we will need to accomplish all that we hope for. But although most posters recognise the need to keep the optimum number of players rested and yet playing, to do so and keep the various team units operating at the standards which have become our norm is a very intricate balance and sometimes it disappoints.

I envy Leocaster the opportunity of working with this group of incredibly talented players. However few will envy them the challenges of living up to their own, and our, expectations.

[blockhead]

Saints 9/10 are pretty inexperienced in those jerseys. Still, big pack with plenty of Premiershpi experience and lots of X factor in the backs.

A TBP here would be a good result, certainly not the foregone conclusion that many thought.

And after that we lost Byrne and Doris and then a couple of HIA's early in the game.
So could say "A TBP here would be a Very good result"?
We can't always win by obliterating the opposition.
Someone posted earlier the team that didn't play, very impressive.

[Hippo]

See I totally, totally disagree with that I must say!

The signs of what was going to happen against Sarries were there, just many didn't want to see them.

Having a poor game is to be expected, but there are elements of today's performance that have been repeating for quite a while, and will come back to haunt us against the top 3-4 sides.

Couldn't agree more Wixfjord

[Dexter]

Yes of course, you're right. We might as well write off the season. We're rubbish.

Jaysus Dexter that's weak stuff.

Wow, some people very touchy yesterday!
Funny how a throwaway, flippantly sarcastic remark can generate more reaction than a sensible informative post. I see why some media people do it now
Anyway, I watched 3 games yesterday and expected Leinster, Ulster and Clermont to win them but with all of them being potential banana skins. All 3 teams got into positions where they should have won, but all 3 of their opponents didn't give up and kept plugging away. In the end only Leinster won, with a BP too, while not being at their best. For me it's move on, I'll leave the angst, hand wringing and table thumping to the coaches. Other people are different, that's fine.

[wixfjord]

Saints 9/10 are pretty inexperienced in those jerseys. Still, big pack with plenty of Premiershpi experience and lots of X factor in the backs.

A TBP here would be a good result, certainly not the foregone conclusion that many thought.

And after that we lost Byrne and Doris and then a couple of HIA's early in the game.
So could say "A TBP here would be a Very good result"?
We can't always win by obliterating the opposition.
Someone posted earlier the team that didn't play, very impressive.

A good result isn't the same thing as a good performance.

It was the first (albeit the lack of PD might come back to haunt us).

It wasn't the latter, as both Baird and Leo said afterwards.

Like it's pretty simple, I'm not sure why this needs to be explained?

[OTT]

I think it’s a good sign of where we are at and our expectations that we played at about 50%(or whatever random indicator others would pick) of what we can play and still won at a canter. Our defence was rubbish and I mean that by our standards, the first couple of Northampton tries were as passive as it gets, like the one off the scrum we were as un Leinster in defence as I can remember, literally we switched off.

The teams that look like they can beat us in the big games are the same teams as any other (recent) season. Toulouse, Exeter, Munster, Clermont and Racing. All sides that are in Pool B so we will probably get one of them (who ever is left standing there)in the knockouts which I would expect us to reach. I’d fancy our chances against any of them but they are all good sides and nothing is a given in sport. I had a peep over at the Northampton forum and they are talking about turning the corner off a 16 point defeat where we were only average and the same old relegation effecting them drum, it reminded me of the game we got hosed in at home to Wasps in Leo’s first season as head coach, living off small positives and a lot of hope. Now we are talking about our lineout needing to be much better (Which I agree with) to make sure we win the competition this year. Good times. My biggest disappointment would be it COVID beat us this season so hopefully we can navigate around that, we are making a great job of it so far so fingers crossed.

[Oldschool]

If you start Harry Byrne you have to be prepared to pull him if he bombs. It’s not something I’d expect but it makes sense to have Ross on the bench.

Christmas Dinner Chez Byrne would be super awks in that situation.

"Can you pass the gravy, Ross?"

"Are you sure you can handle it, Harry? Maybe I should do it for you?"

"I'm surprised Mum picked you to have the gravy at the start of the meal."

Etc.

There's a terrific mirror, mirror thread in this for the usual The Quickening suspects.

With the benefit of hindsight the mirror might well have come up with something along the lines of.
Mammy, Ross is at me.
Ross, leave your brother alone.
Mom I didn't do anything. (Angry face in Bro's direction)
Mammy, Ross is at me again.
Ross, I told you to leave your brother alone.
Mom I've had enough I'm going out to start the match.
Son, you know I hate to see either of you upset, but Harry is starting the match today.
Mom, there's just been a change of plans (smirking )

[FLIP]

Alex Cobisiero has a good series of tweets about how Leinster's scrum has changed since the Saracens game.

https://twitter.com/AlexCorbs/status/13 ... 23264?s=19

https://twitter.com/AlexCorbs/status/13 ... 68706?s=19

Certainly could highlight why our squad players who have had plenty of time to practice the new system (and not had to work in a different one in the national squad) may be doing better come scrum time.

[Logorrhea]

That was a great post Flip. Appreciate that.

Worth a thread of their own if you ask me.

[Dexter]

Alex Cobisiero has a good series of tweets about how Leinster's scrum has changed since the Saracens game.

https://twitter.com/AlexCorbs/status/13 ... 23264?s=19

https://twitter.com/AlexCorbs/status/13 ... 68706?s=19

Certainly could highlight why our squad players who have had plenty of time to practice the new system (and not had to work in a different one in the national squad) may be doing better come scrum time.

Thanks, that's very interesting. Well spotted!

[Ruckedtobits]

Good research @Flip and what a coherent explanation from Corbishero. He should be invited to give a presentation to Jefferies, Orr & Beaumont, the only three members of the World Rugby Council who'd have any idea what he's talking about.

This doesn't need a Law change, it only needs a Coaching Seminar coupled with an Interpretation Note to Referees about the positioning of 2nd Row and No 8 feet positions on the "Bind" command. Subject to the Argies not claiming that they have a better (and safer) technique, that system could be worldwide by next September.

[D4surfer]

https://www.epcrugby.com/2020/12/22/dis ... round-2-5/

Tom Wood has been cited.

[backrower8]

https://www.epcrugby.com/2020/12/22/dis ... round-2-5/

Tom Wood has been cited.

Good. A ban also needed for the protection of players and the game.

I was disappointed by Leo’s quoted lackluster post-match remarks about this incident.

[backrower8]

Alex Cobisiero has a good series of tweets about how Leinster's scrum has changed since the Saracens game.

https://twitter.com/AlexCorbs/status/13 ... 23264?s=19

https://twitter.com/AlexCorbs/status/13 ... 68706?s=19

Certainly could highlight why our squad players who have had plenty of time to practice the new system (and not had to work in a different one in the national squad) may be doing better come scrum time.

Thanks, that's very interesting. Well spotted!

Great analysis. Corbisiero was a loss to the game. Hope his health recovers fully.

What do our set piece problems, scrum especially, say about Robin McBryde’s performance to date?

I am still in two minds about how well complete Porter’s transition to TH has been. The Welsh game was a highlight, but the number of resets, on TH side, when he is playing seems very high.