Leinster's Scrum

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mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Leinster's Scrum

Post by mildlyinterested »

Robin McBryde on Leinster's scrum troubles against Saracens:

https://www.the42.ie/leinster-scrum-sar ... =shortlink
Last edited by mildlyinterested on November 13th, 2020, 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Oldschool
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Re: Leinsters Scrum

Post by Oldschool »

mildlyinterested wrote:
November 12th, 2020, 8:33 am
Robin McBryde on Leinster's scrum troubles against Saracens:

https://www.the42.ie/leinster-scrum-sar ... =shortlink
Well deserved praise for Michael Bent.
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munster#1
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Re: Leinsters Scrum

Post by munster#1 »

Very interesting read, but I do find some of his comments a bit odd.
As an experienced coach he is trialling a scrummaging method? Fair enough if it were a new method that he came up with, but he should have plenty of data to know what works and what does not without having to run a trial.
As it appears that he is making it up as he goes along.

I played most of my rugby at backrow, so for me a big issue was that you essentially had 6 Leinster players pushing that day, as both of the flankers were fairly loose and were more interested in a break from Billy that they were with their primary roles.
For me the fact that this was not addressed early is a black mark for Mcbride.

On a positive note, if Leinster can nail there set piece, then it is hard to see who can stop them, especially with Saracens out of the picture.

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Peg Leg
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Re: Leinsters Scrum

Post by Peg Leg »

munster#1 wrote:
November 12th, 2020, 11:17 am
Very interesting read, but I do find some of his comments a bit odd.
As an experienced coach he is trialling a scrummaging method? Fair enough if it were a new method that he came up with, but he should have plenty of data to know what works and what does not without having to run a trial.
As it appears that he is making it up as he goes along.

I played most of my rugby at backrow, so for me a big issue was that you essentially had 6 Leinster players pushing that day, as both of the flankers were fairly loose and were more interested in a break from Billy that they were with their primary roles.
For me the fact that this was not addressed early is a black mark for Mcbride.

On a positive note, if Leinster can nail there set piece, then it is hard to see who can stop them, especially with Saracens out of the picture.
Correct, innovation never did nothin' for nobody.
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deco
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Re: Leinsters Scrum

Post by deco »

Can't remember where I saw this interesting (JohnG maybe?), if smug article from Peter Bracken in the weeks after the Sarries loss. Saracens have been working a lot on an isometric hold, build tension and potential energy and then explode forward type of scrum.

Makes sense as they purchased a scrum machine that does that from me, 2 years ago, and they use it regularly! Leinster weren't interested in the machine btw! A side point, I digress.
Scrum 1: excellent tight, elbow down, perfectly legal right arm bind from Saracens 3. Leinster 1 can't get full extension on his left arm and is left in a weak position. This senario repeats itself throughout the match. Leinster flanker bails out prematurely, ie, sticks his head up in the air before scrum is over. Leinster are now down to 7 men scrummaging. Saracens would have felt this and exerted the forward push. Leinster locks hips come up, under the pressure and Saracen carnage insues.

By scrum 4 the referee was in Saracens pocket. He was going to give them every 50/50 penalty scrum time which is what happened. He is only human and Saracens had deservedly put themselves in this advantageous position with regard the ref with they're destruction of Leinster in the previous scrums. Scrum 4 was a penalty against Leinster 3 for slipping to his knee. Extremely harsh. Should not have been anything. Leinster 3 immediately regained his footing and scrum was safe. Should have been play on. But the ref was looking to give Saracens the advantage at scrum time from this scrum onwards.

Scrum 6: Leinster getting nervous now. They don't want to get hosed again so over commit and push before the ball is in. Penalty. Correct decision

Scrum 7: Leinster got the LH side up fairly in a controlled manner. Not a spin. Incorrect decision to penalize Leinster. It should have been Leinsters penalty.

Scrum 8: Pure brute force combined with straight scrummaging with excellent low height and body position from Saracens. Saracens had the mental scrum battle well won at this stage.

Leinsters scrum failures couldn't be rectified on the day. The damage was done in the weeks leading up to the match. To get the efficiency, timing, team work that Saracens had only comes from hours of intense practice. Especially the isometric hold training. Takes hours to get that right. The safest and most effective way to train the isometric hold is on my machine but nobody believes me and I'm fed up trying to convince anyone any more. But maybe Saracens have done it for me!😀
Probably not, Irish clubs love those big metal, useless, expensive Rhino and Predator machines.

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riocard911
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Re: Leinsters Scrum

Post by riocard911 »

At the risk of sounding pedantic, should this thread not be called "Leinster's scrum"?

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munster#1
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Re: Leinsters Scrum

Post by munster#1 »

Peg Leg wrote:
November 13th, 2020, 10:44 am
munster#1 wrote:
November 12th, 2020, 11:17 am
Very interesting read, but I do find some of his comments a bit odd.
As an experienced coach he is trialling a scrummaging method? Fair enough if it were a new method that he came up with, but he should have plenty of data to know what works and what does not without having to run a trial.
As it appears that he is making it up as he goes along.

I played most of my rugby at backrow, so for me a big issue was that you essentially had 6 Leinster players pushing that day, as both of the flankers were fairly loose and were more interested in a break from Billy that they were with their primary roles.
For me the fact that this was not addressed early is a black mark for Mcbride.

On a positive note, if Leinster can nail there set piece, then it is hard to see who can stop them, especially with Saracens out of the picture.
Correct, innovation never did nothin' for nobody.
What he is doing is not innovative, he said himself he is copying what others are already doing.
Where he falls down for me is where he states that he is trialling it.

A knowledgeable coach would not have to trial an already common method of scrummaging, a knowledgeable coach would have the data, or at least study the data in full, ensure that the implementation of the change is warranted, and then implement it correctly knowing that the change will improve the Leinster scrum.

Innovation in this instance would be to state that he has reviewed what others are doing, and he has come up with a better, or potentially better method.

riocard911
Isa Nacewa
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Re: Leinsters Scrum

Post by riocard911 »

riocard911 wrote:
November 13th, 2020, 1:09 pm
At the risk of sounding pedantic, should this thread not be called "Leinster's scrum"?
All hail Limecat!!! :happy clapper: :clap: :green clap:

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Re: Leinsters Scrum

Post by limecat »

riocard911 wrote:
November 13th, 2020, 2:42 pm
riocard911 wrote:
November 13th, 2020, 1:09 pm
At the risk of sounding pedantic, should this thread not be called "Leinster's scrum"?
All hail Limecat!!! :happy clapper: :clap: :green clap:
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FLIP
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Re: Leinsters Scrum

Post by FLIP »

limecat wrote:
November 13th, 2020, 3:17 pm
riocard911 wrote:
November 13th, 2020, 2:42 pm
riocard911 wrote:
November 13th, 2020, 1:09 pm
At the risk of sounding pedantic, should this thread not be called "Leinster's scrum"?
All hail Limecat!!! :happy clapper: :clap: :green clap:
Nothing to do with me
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Anyone But New Zealand

backrower8
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Re: Leinster's Scrum

Post by backrower8 »

The view from one pundit is that we would not have had scrummaging issues if Ronan Kelleher had started against Saracens. He also said that Roux is considered a beast when scrummaging at TH lock.

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