Leinster’s Captaincy Options

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backrower8
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Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by backrower8 »

I have been surprised at Ringer’s nomination to Captain in Sexton’s absence. He is experienced and speaks well to the media and maybe will be well received by referees, but I don’t think he provides the visible leadership and cussedness that we need from our leader, especially now.

I am presuming it has been too early in Ryan’s comeback to give him the Captaincy, but surely that is where we should go next? Is it overthinking it to consider that Andy Farrell doesn’t want Ryan to be burdened at Leinster if he has plans to anoint him for Ireland?

We need a leader from the next generation, in the pack to set the tone for this team of ‘gentlemen‘.

Unlike Leavy, who is probably the most natural captain in the next generation, Ryan is assured of his place and showing the sort of bite and aggression needed from a top flight second row.

He has the prior experience too and I think would be a good man to liaise with referees. The 6ft 8inch stance doesn’t do any harm either - a la Paulie, Leo, Johnson, Eales, Pelous, AWJ, etc.

Rhys and Luke between them provide options when Ryan is on international duty, but there aren’t a surplus of candidates to choose from in my opinion.

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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by joooooe »

We have a captain. Johnny Sexton is guaranteed his place and, following some early difficulties, deals well with referees. He is also a darling of the media and (subjective opinion alert) a very good captain, as reflected by the fact he plays that role for Ireland too.

On the other hand, backrower8 wishing to anoint James Ryan or Dan Leavy...what do those 3 have in common?

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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by riocard911 »

backrower8 wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 8:52 am
I have been surprised at Ringer’s nomination to Captain in Sexton’s absence. He is experienced and speaks well to the media and maybe will be well received by referees, but I don’t think he provides the visible leadership and cussedness that we need from our leader, especially now.

I am presuming it has been too early in Ryan’s comeback to give him the Captaincy, but surely that is where we should go next? Is it overthinking it to consider that Andy Farrell doesn’t want Ryan to be burdened at Leinster if he has plans to anoint him for Ireland?

We need a leader from the next generation, in the pack to set the tone for this team of ‘gentlemen‘.

Unlike Leavy, who is probably the most natural captain in the next generation, Ryan is assured of his place and showing the sort of bite and aggression needed from a top flight second row.

He has the prior experience too and I think would be a good man to liaise with referees. The 6ft 8inch stance doesn’t do any harm either - a la Paulie, Leo, Johnson, Eales, Pelous, AWJ, etc.

Rhys and Luke between them provide options when Ryan is on international duty, but there aren’t a surplus of candidates to choose from in my opinion.
Ringrose "speaks well to the media"? Depends on your definition. If you want the boy next door / head prefect to robotically repeat mindless soundbites with zero content, perhaps. His post-Saracens match interview annoyed me intensely. He told us all how disappointed the lads were cos they'd all worked so hard. Really? I would never have guessed. Saracens worked hard too. All teams work hard, ffs!!! He should stop telling us cr@p we know already, maybe go off script sometime and give us some insights instead of regurgitating boilerplate ad nauseam.

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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by Wanderers FC »

Doris is certainly a leader to keep an eye on. Leads by example on the pitch, is always in the thick of it, speaks well and is respected by management and teammates. I would put him firmly in the future captains bracket.

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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by backrower8 »

joooooe wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 9:04 am
On the other hand, backrower8 wishing to anoint James Ryan or Dan Leavy...what do those 3 have in common?
Hat tip for the cheap shot.

So who do you want post Johnny?

For me it’s a new season (and time to start loosening Johnny’s iron grip over Leinster & Ireland, it’s way past time. He is too dominant a figure in both groups. Especially Leinster - hence a new generation and hence the options I proposed and the one I singled out on the basis that he is a certain starter and not the Irish Captain.

I also referenced Rhys, but his place is under more pressure.

Looking forward to your alternatives…other than Johnny

backrower8
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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by backrower8 »

riocard911 wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 9:41 am
Ringrose "speaks well to the media"? Depends on your definition. If you want the boy next door / head prefect to robotically repeat mindless soundbites with zero content, perhaps. His post-Saracens match interview annoyed me intensely. He told us all how disappointed the lads were cos they'd all worked so hard. Really? I would never have guessed. Saracens worked hard too. All teams work hard, ffs!!! He should stop telling us cr@p we know already, maybe go off script sometime and give us some insights instead of regurgitating boilerplate ad nauseam.
I wouldn’t have put it like that. I have a lot of time for Ringer as a player and person and as someone finding their feet in the Captaincy role, but I agree with your substantive points entirely.

Who do you have in mind?

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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by backrower8 »

Wanderers FC wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 10:09 am
Doris is certainly a leader to keep an eye on. Leads by example on the pitch, is always in the thick of it, speaks well and is respected by management and teammates. I would put him firmly in the future captains bracket.
I get that vibe about him alright. Is he your next up? If not, who?

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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by backrower8 »

Sorry for repeating the post.

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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by hugonaut »

backrower8 wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 8:52 am
I have been surprised at Ringer’s nomination to Captain in Sexton’s absence. He is experienced and speaks well to the media and maybe will be well received by referees, but I don’t think he provides the visible leadership and cussedness that we need from our leader, especially now.

I am presuming it has been too early in Ryan’s comeback to give him the Captaincy, but surely that is where we should go next? Is it overthinking it to consider that Andy Farrell doesn’t want Ryan to be burdened at Leinster if he has plans to anoint him for Ireland?

We need a leader from the next generation, in the pack to set the tone for this team of ‘gentlemen‘.

Unlike Leavy, who is probably the most natural captain in the next generation, Ryan is assured of his place and showing the sort of bite and aggression needed from a top flight second row.

He has the prior experience too and I think would be a good man to liaise with referees. The 6ft 8inch stance doesn’t do any harm either - a la Paulie, Leo, Johnson, Eales, Pelous, AWJ, etc.

Rhys and Luke between them provide options when Ryan is on international duty, but there aren’t a surplus of candidates to choose from in my opinion.
Leavy would be my choice [for club captain, that is]. He has a big, outgoing personality, is a tough character and everybody respects him both for what he has done on the pitch and how he has come back from injury. Ryan would obviously be a very good option as well, but I think that Leavy has a more natural aptitude for captaincy – he seems like a more expressive guy and knows how to show positivity better.

I am not super concerned about a guy not being an automatic choice. It's a long campaign, there's always loads of changes in selection and we need multiple leaders. Some of the guys in the squad – Rhys obviously, but also guys like Ed Byrne, Ross Molony and Luke McGrath – I consider as solid captains in the Pro14.

Garry is getting a push now, which I think is a required; we have lost leadership in the backline with Ferg and RK retiring. Tommy O'Brien also has the right stuff. I'm hoping for a big season from him.

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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by riocard911 »

backrower8 wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 11:21 am
riocard911 wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 9:41 am
Ringrose "speaks well to the media"? Depends on your definition. If you want the boy next door / head prefect to robotically repeat mindless soundbites with zero content, perhaps. His post-Saracens match interview annoyed me intensely. He told us all how disappointed the lads were cos they'd all worked so hard. Really? I would never have guessed. Saracens worked hard too. All teams work hard, ffs!!! He should stop telling us cr@p we know already, maybe go off script sometime and give us some insights instead of regurgitating boilerplate ad nauseam.
I wouldn’t have put it like that. I have a lot of time for Ringer as a player and person and as someone finding their feet in the Captaincy role, but I agree with your substantive points entirely.

Who do you have in mind?
I apologise, if my previous comment was unnecessarily caustic. I think Ringrose being encouraged to come out of his shell more is a very good thing, as we need him, being perhaps the only nailed on starter in the backline, to take charge of there in the post-J10-era. Whether he's up to the captaincy or not, I don't know.

I see James Haskell is laying into Lancaster in his new book re RWC2015, accusing him of treating the England players like children. I'd take that with a pinch of salt. That said, I would rather Leinster's equivalent of Dylan Hartley, should we have one, than a Chris Robshaw figure as captain.

As to who is best suited to the future captaincy, I think Rhys has filled that role very well any time he was called upon to do it. Personally I think James Ryan is pre-destined to take on the mantle, although I agree with Hugonaut, that Leavy might also be a good candidate.

backrower8
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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by backrower8 »

Agree with riocard911 and Hugonaut that Leavy is the Alpha Captaincy candidate. It’s just hard to anoint him given he has yet to play again after 18 months out and even before that he was having an injury interrupted season in 2018-9.

Agree also regarding those that can get us through PRO14 games. However, given that we have let 2 Heineken Cups slip in two consecutive years, my sense is that we need a Supreme Leader to take hold of this group NOW and drive standards for the new cohort in making sure we maximise on our Champions’ Cup potential.

I think Johnny is actually detrimental to this team’s development - too dominant a persona, we are too predictable playing under him & failing powers that are normal at 35, but which get exposed at the top levels.

Of the experienced crew, Rhys is under too much pressure for his place, Luke has gone backwards across 2020 and Cian and Dev aren’t those guys.

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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by OTT »

backrower8 wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 2:32 pm

I think Johnny is actually detrimental to this team’s development - too dominant a persona, we are too predictable playing under him & failing powers that are normal at 35, but which get exposed at the top levels.

He was absolutely brutal in the scrums on Saturday to be fair.

Though the team did open up after he went off in the 63rd minute at 17-22.

All the other games he played and captained Leinster in during the season that they won he was to predictable and to dominant, defo!

The only thing you got wrong was that he is to old at 35, I reckon he has another 10-15 years in him.

No confirmation bias there at all.

But to answer your question I would imagine our future captain would come from Ryan or Leavy as others have stated, they are both world class players imo and both lead by example. We look well sorted in that regard.
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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by Xanthippe »

So this...
backrower8 wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 2:32 pm
we need a Supreme Leader to take hold of this group NOW and drive standards
and later in the same post this...
backrower8 wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 2:32 pm
I think Johnny is actually detrimental to this team’s development - too dominant a persona
I'm confused
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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by OTT »

Xanthippe wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 3:29 pm
So this...
backrower8 wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 2:32 pm
we need a Supreme Leader to take hold of this group NOW and drive standards
and later in the same post this...
backrower8 wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 2:32 pm
I think Johnny is actually detrimental to this team’s development - too dominant a persona
I'm confused
Maybe we could sign Kim Jong-un as a project player, he looks like he would make a good tight head.
"Horrocks went one way, Taylor the other and I was left holding the bloody hyphen!"

~The Late Great Mick English

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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by Dave Cahill »

Snoke - though he tends to go to pieces
I have Bumbleflex

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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by OTT »

Dave Cahill wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 3:49 pm
Snoke - though he tends to go to pieces
Did he not get capped by Exegol?
"Horrocks went one way, Taylor the other and I was left holding the bloody hyphen!"

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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by riocard911 »

If we could just get the IRFU to let us sign Chtulhu and anoint him as captain world domination would be ours - forever!!!

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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by Dave Cahill »

riocard911 wrote:If we could just get the IRFU to let us sign Chtulhu and anoint him as captain world domination would be ours - forever!!!
Contracted to R'lyeh until until he finishes his dreaming
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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by riocard911 »

Dave Cahill wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 4:39 pm
riocard911 wrote:If we could just get the IRFU to let us sign Chtulhu and anoint him as captain world domination would be ours - forever!!!
Contracted to R'lyeh until until he finishes his dreaming
Touché!!! :happy clapper: :happy clapper: :happy clapper:

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Re: Leinster’s Captaincy Options

Post by Dexter »

riocard911 wrote:
September 23rd, 2020, 1:01 pm
I see James Haskell is laying into Lancaster in his new book re RWC2015, accusing him of treating the England players like children. I'd take that with a pinch of salt.
Hilarious from Haskell :lol:
I'd say he's one of the players who would HAVE to be treated like a child!
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