Pro 14 2020-2021 season

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dropkick
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by dropkick »

Edit mistake.

riocard911
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by riocard911 »

johng wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 10:27 am
So would people prefer a B&I league ahead of a League including SA sides? Because it seems to be going in one of those 2 directions.

I'm not welded to either idea personally. But jumping into bed with the PRL is probably slightly worse for me. At the end of the day as long as we get to see Rugby I'll be happy.
I don't think a B&I League would be good for Irish rugby, as we'd be the Johnny come latelys. the Nigels would be in charge and it would dilute the attraction of the Heino. I much prefer the idea of a league run by the Celtic Unions and SARU, which I think would be a product at least on a par with the Prem and the Top 14. The inclusion of the Sharks, Lions, Stormers and Bulls (with or without the Cheetahs and a sixth team) would increase the TV revenues considerably, which is something not to be sneezed at in a time of diminished gate receipts due to airborne viral nasties. I also suspect that the IRFUand the SARU have been planning this realignment for a while, as the demise of Super Rugby was just a question of time. For the same reason I imagine Guinness have been involved in this realignment from the get go - Africa is their largest market world wide. I also suspect that Rassie has played the role of matchmaker - certainly the links between Irish and South African rugby have strengthened considerably since his time in Limerick.
Last edited by riocard911 on September 29th, 2020, 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

riocard911
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by riocard911 »

riocard911 wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 4:23 pm
johng wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 10:27 am
So would people prefer a B&I league ahead of a League including SA sides? Because it seems to be going in one of those 2 directions.

I'm not welded to either idea personally. But jumping into bed with the PRL is probably slightly worse for me. At the end of the day as long as we get to see Rugby I'll be happy.
I don't think a B&I League would be good for Irish rugby, as we'd be the Johnny come latelys. the Nigels would be in charge and it would dilute the attraction of the Heino. I much prefer the idea of a league run by the Celtic Unions and SARU, which I think would be a product at least on a par with the Prem and the Top 14. The inclusion of the Sharks, Lions, Stormers and Bulls (with or without the Cheetahs and a sixth team) would increase the TV revenues considerably, which is something not to be sneezed at in a time of diminished gate receipts due to airborne viral nasties. I also suspect that the blahers in Dublin and Cape Town have been planning this realignment for a while, as the demise of Super Rugby no big secret. For the same reason I imagine Guinness have been involved in this realignment from the get go - Africa is their largest market world wide. I also suspect that Rassie has played the role of matchmaker - certainly the links between Irish and South African rugby have strengthened considerably since his time in Limerick.

riocard911
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by riocard911 »

riocard911 wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 4:25 pm
riocard911 wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 4:23 pm
johng wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 10:27 am
So would people prefer a B&I league ahead of a League including SA sides? Because it seems to be going in one of those 2 directions.

I'm not welded to either idea personally. But jumping into bed with the PRL is probably slightly worse for me. At the end of the day as long as we get to see Rugby I'll be happy.
I don't think a B&I League would be good for Irish rugby, as we'd be the Johnny come latelys. the Nigels would be in charge and it would dilute the attraction of the Heino. I much prefer the idea of a league run by the Celtic Unions and SARU, which I think would be a product at least on a par with the Prem and the Top 14. The inclusion of the Sharks, Lions, Stormers and Bulls (with or without the Cheetahs and a sixth team) would increase the TV revenues considerably, which is something not to be sneezed at in a time of diminished gate receipts due to airborne viral nasties. I also suspect that the blahers in Dublin and Cape Town have been planning this realignment for a while, as the demise of Super Rugby no big secret. For the same reason I imagine Guinness have been involved in this realignment from the get go - Africa is their largest market world wide. I also suspect that Rassie has played the role of matchmaker - certainly the links between Irish and South African rugby have strengthened considerably since his time in Limerick.

wixfjord
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by wixfjord »

riocard911 wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 4:23 pm
For the same reason I imagine Guinness have been involved in this realignment from the get go - Africa is their largest market world wide.
Guinness isn't popular at all in SA though, and I'm not too sure the good people of Lagos or Yaounde will care too much about a Connacht v Bulls live from a windy Sportsground on a Fri night! So not sure that theory holds up!

riocard911
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by riocard911 »

edit mistake....

riocard911
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by riocard911 »

edit mistake ...

D4surfer
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by D4surfer »

dropkick wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 2:27 pm
Edit mistake.
riocard911 wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 4:32 pm
edit mistake....
riocard911 wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 4:34 pm
edit mistake ...

I hope we don't have as many f*cking mistakes on Friday evening.

Up Wexford
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by Up Wexford »

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 72971.html

Indo confirming the Euro - SA Pro 16....

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Dave Cahill
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by Dave Cahill »

So, clear as mud.

The four "Super Rugby" franchises will 'explore' entering the Pro14. SARU will attempt to gain entry for the Cheetahs into a 'modified' '8 team' 'super series' run by SANZAAR. They (the Cheetahs) have lawyered up while they're at it.

Also, blah blah, currie cup, blah.
Last edited by Dave Cahill on September 29th, 2020, 5:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Oldschool
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by Oldschool »

wixfjord wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 4:31 pm
riocard911 wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 4:23 pm
For the same reason I imagine Guinness have been involved in this realignment from the get go - Africa is their largest market world wide.
Guinness isn't popular at all in SA though, and I'm not too sure the good people of Lagos or Yaounde will care too much about a Connacht v Bulls live from a windy Sportsground on a Fri night! So not sure that theory holds up!
Guinness is an acquired taste.
The more exposure you get to it, the more you acquire a taste for it. :lol:
They could always start with Carlsburg and work their way up to Guinness. :wink:
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by FLIP »

Oldschool wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 5:40 pm
wixfjord wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 4:31 pm
riocard911 wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 4:23 pm
For the same reason I imagine Guinness have been involved in this realignment from the get go - Africa is their largest market world wide.
Guinness isn't popular at all in SA though, and I'm not too sure the good people of Lagos or Yaounde will care too much about a Connacht v Bulls live from a windy Sportsground on a Fri night! So not sure that theory holds up!
Guinness is an acquired taste.
The more exposure you get to it, the more you acquire a taste for it. :lol:
They could always start with Carlsburg and work their way up to Guinness. :wink:
If the South Africans wanted to drink sh!t beer Lion is pretty awful. But then they have Windhoek from Namibia which is one of the best lagers in the world freely available over there so why would they want to drink sh!t beer?
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Blueberry
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by Blueberry »

Will be interesting to see how all this is worked out.......

100% think adding quality teams to the league is a good thing....but a 12,500 mile round-trip to play a game of rugby....

Personally think its nuts.

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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by Blueberry »

While I understand the reluctance to form a B&I league due to fear of the English taking over on the admin side..it has to be more logical to form a B&I league (possibly two divisions) and have two leagues in Europe - a B&I league and the Top 14 with the Italians joining that.....both equal can then feed into a Euro Cup.

May be too much political nonsense for this to ever happen......but it does make more sense than flying to the other side of the world...

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blockhead
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by blockhead »

Blueberry wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 8:47 am
Will be interesting to see how all this is worked out.......

100% think adding quality teams to the league is a good thing....but a 12,500 mile round-trip to play a game of rugby....

Personally think its nuts
.
In case you haven't noticed, the Pro14 has been doing this for a number of years. Super Rugby has been doing it for donkeys years. And it wouldn't be for a game, it would be for a number of games. Like a mini tour, Rugby has been doing tours for long time too.
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blockhead
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by blockhead »

hugonaut wrote:
September 28th, 2020, 6:30 pm
I might be in the minority here, but I think this is ridiculous. The idea that you make a 19,000km round trip [Durban to Dublin, return] to fulfil a regular season fixture is absolutely crazy. It is mind-boggling. On an environmental basis alone it is irresponsible.

To my eyes, this is a Celtic Tiger type of idea – just excess and financial greed. "It makes sense because they're [almost] in the same timezone." No, it doesn't make sense because South Africa is at the far end of a different continent, about 9500km away.

You could justify the inclusion of Italian teams in the Celtic League because Italy is a relatively short trip away, they're a European country who play in the Six Nations, and there was a general acceptance amongst fans in Ireland, Scotland and Wales that including Italian clubs in the competition would help to grow the game in Italy.

The Springboks don't play in the same competitions as the other teams in the league. So if, for example, Leinster get drawn for a tour of South Africa in February or March [during the Six Nations] you'll have a team stripped of anybody near the international set-up playing against full-strength SA Super Rugby teams. Academy lads versus World Cup winners. The integrity of the league isn't damaged, it doesn't even exist.

South Africa is a huge country with an enormously strong rugby culture - 650,000 registered players. They don't need help growing their game. They're the f*cking champions of the world!

They have a long standing [120+ years old] competition in the Currie Cup, which they can easily format to regain pride of place in their domestic rugby calendar. Super Rugby Aotearoa and Super Rugby AU demonstrated recently that national competitions can be very successful in terms of playing standard, support, atmosphere and media coverage.

On the other hand, Super Rugby grew to be a bloated, transcontinental mess of a tournament which became less and less relevant as it expanded. Apparently the model we are now trying to follow. For. F*ck's. Sake.
Now that your rant is over. Any suggestions on how to keep pro rugby alive in these parts?
We probably wont survive with just the 4 current nations supplying teams, even with all the good will in the world it's future is bleak against the prem and top14 (financially).
B&I league is not a runner, getting into bed with that shower of sh!ts is a very bad idea. And they would see it as us joining their league btw, no equity from the start. And what happens if Leinster (or Celtic teams combined) win successive titles? More sabre rattling.
The 6N arguement could be resolved with RSA making it a 7N, you know it makes sense.
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by Blueberry »

blockhead wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 9:31 am
Blueberry wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 8:47 am
Will be interesting to see how all this is worked out.......

100% think adding quality teams to the league is a good thing....but a 12,500 mile round-trip to play a game of rugby....

Personally think its nuts
.
In case you haven't noticed, the Pro14 has been doing this for a number of years. Super Rugby has been doing it for donkeys years. And it wouldn't be for a game, it would be for a number of games. Like a mini tour, Rugby has been doing tours for long time too.
Yes.....kinda had noticed that we had been flying south to play two team in SA, thanks for your help, god knows where I'd be without you.......doesn't mean I didn't think that was nuts too. Spoke to a couple of lads in the Leinster Structure I know and they think it's nuts too, nice holiday and a bit of fun but nuts.

Yes of course if it's managed correctly it will reduce flying and travel aka mini tour - just would be interested to see how this will work in an insanely busy schedule already. (or will we end up flying down B teams just to fulfill fixtures and hoping for the best).

If you seriously think it makes sense (considering the strength of European Rugby as a whole) that our day to day run of the mill league games for teams from Ireland, Scotland and Wales (and maybe Italy) should involve flying to South Africa well fine, to me it's nuts.

All I am saying is that (stupid politics aside) would it not make more sense to build a B&I league (two divisions etc) which gets the very best of British Isles Rugby to play each other - god knows we have enough baggage and rivalry in these two islands to makes it a fascinating league and sustainable. Personally think it's hand bags and stupidity on all sides that doesn't allow this to happen as it makes the most sense.

If this does go ahead and it seems to be.....do you really think it's sustainable and will last ?

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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Worth going back and reading the history (on and off etc..) of how, and why, the NFL and the AFL eventually came together. Two things dominated in what has become ultimately the most successful professional sports in the world - yes, including the Premiership.

Have a read of that history, factor in the presence, with a very strong hand to play, of CVC Partners; don't overlook the immediate term impact of Covid and finally look at the Rand v €uro or Stg£ exchange rate.

If any rational rugby fan, or administrator, reviews these factors and bears in mind the NZ decision to go it alone, it becomes difficult to see what alternatives are left other than Pro16 with some SA presence.

Of very particular interest in this conundrum is whether CVC Partners have altered their investment timeline to account for Covid 19 and if so, do they still anticipate the same IRR (internal rate of return) on their investment.

Covid has screwed professional sports in Europe and may actually eradicate some of them. How long it will rob those sports of spectator support may actually determine whether rugby is totally handed over to the Investment Owners - permanently

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Flash Gordon
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by Flash Gordon »

wixfjord wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 4:31 pm
riocard911 wrote:
September 29th, 2020, 4:23 pm
For the same reason I imagine Guinness have been involved in this realignment from the get go - Africa is their largest market world wide.
Guinness isn't popular at all in SA though, and I'm not too sure the good people of Lagos or Yaounde will care too much about a Connacht v Bulls live from a windy Sportsground on a Fri night! So not sure that theory holds up!
Africa is the second biggest region in the world for beer sales and South Africa is the second biggest market in Africa and also the second biggest stout market in Africa. So I think they would see the market as a huge opportunity. From the League's perspective it also gives them leverage when title sponsorship comes up for renegotiation.
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johng
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Re: Pro 14 2020-2021 season

Post by johng »

Blueberry wrote:
September 30th, 2020, 10:21 am
the very best of British Isles Rugby
Less controversial alternatives for the British Isles include "Britain and Ireland", "Atlantic Archipelago", "Anglo-Celtic Isles", the "British-Irish Isles" and the Islands of the North Atlantic. In documents drawn up jointly between the British and Irish governments, the archipelago is referred to simply as "these islands"

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