Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

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ronk
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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by ronk »

Jonny tight lips wrote:
September 8th, 2020, 2:56 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
September 8th, 2020, 10:21 am
Jonny tight lips wrote:
September 8th, 2020, 10:16 am

Fair point but remove Healy from the LH depth chart and that’s the much bigger problem.
disagree, Byrne/Dooley have both played in europe and not found wanting and Milne looks promising.

Until Furlong returns and looks back to his old self, Porter is immovable from TH and even then i'd question it.
I’ll respectfully disagree, I don’t think the lads are top line players. If we want to win European cups we need International standard players in every position and the two boys are nowhere near the national set up. Maybe in a micky mouse tour during a lions year they could get a cap but even at that there are probably too many ahead of them.
How many European Cups has Marcus Horan again

What’s the international pecking order for looseheads u30? Who are these guys ahead of them?

I don’t worry if Byrne or Dooley are on the team sheet, even for the big games.

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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by leinsterforever »

Eric O'Sullivan
Ed Byrne
Peter Dooley
Jeremy Loughman
James Cronin
Liam O'Connor
Gareth Milasinovich (don't know which side he plays more)
Michael Milne
Andrew Warwick
Kyle McCall
Matthew Burke
Jordan Duggan

Something like that maybe? Loughman, Dooley and Byrne are all kinda shifting around depending on who's getting a run and showing some form. O'Sullivan isn't quite so prominent since McGrath moved up north.

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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by leinsterforever »

Have I undersold Milne there? He looked good off the bench against Ulster.

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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by mildlyinterested »

leinsterforever wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 6:14 am
Have I undersold Milne there? He looked good off the bench against Ulster.
certainly have him ahead of Milasinovich.

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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Milne loves ball in hand. He likes tackling. He tolerates scrumagging. If McBryde can help him become devoted to scrums, he'll make it the whole way to a green jersey and fill it well.

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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by mildlyinterested »

I'd take Dooley and Byrne over everyone on that list bar O'Sullivan.

Milne will go far if he can sort out his scrum.

Then Jack Boyle could progress very quickly once he is out irish 20's ala Ronan Kelleher.

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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by curates_egg »

Bad news for those already boiling the water to turn Fardy into glue, as he makes the Pro14 dream team for this season.

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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by mildlyinterested »

curates_egg wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 2:09 pm
Bad news for those already boiling the water to turn Fardy into glue, as he makes the Pro14 dream team for this season.
:lol: he is 36 and likely on his final contract, no one is writing him off, just being realistic that he is near the end of his leinster career.
Last edited by mildlyinterested on September 9th, 2020, 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ronk
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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by ronk »

I’d be surprised if Fardy got a contract extension.

If the deal wasn’t done early he probably wouldn’t have got an extension for this season. With revenues going to be down, he’s be a prime way to make a budget cut.

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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by mildlyinterested »

ronk wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 3:19 pm
I’d be surprised if Fardy got a contract extension.

If the deal wasn’t done early he probably wouldn’t have got an extension for this season. With revenues going to be down, he’s be a prime way to make a budget cut.
i'd say there very little chance he gets another extension.

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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by Jonny tight lips »

ronk wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 2:45 am
Jonny tight lips wrote:
September 8th, 2020, 2:56 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
September 8th, 2020, 10:21 am


disagree, Byrne/Dooley have both played in europe and not found wanting and Milne looks promising.

Until Furlong returns and looks back to his old self, Porter is immovable from TH and even then i'd question it.
I’ll respectfully disagree, I don’t think the lads are top line players. If we want to win European cups we need International standard players in every position and the two boys are nowhere near the national set up. Maybe in a micky mouse tour during a lions year they could get a cap but even at that there are probably too many ahead of them.
How many European Cups has Marcus Horan again

What’s the international pecking order for looseheads u30? Who are these guys ahead of them?

I don’t worry if Byrne or Dooley are on the team sheet, even for the big games.
Ahhh the U30 side .... why not the U28/ libra side. The Senior side has Healy, McGrath, Kilcoyne and O Sullivan ahead of them and after that maybe a few others.

On a plus they are first and second choice on the Byrnes/Dooley Only side but not sure when they are playing next.

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ronk
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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by ronk »

The premise is about long term replacements for players over 30. Healy, Kilcoyne and McGrath could all age out over a narrow window. If that happens then the Irish depth chart is open to anyone who hits form.

I’m not convinced that O’Sullivan is definitely ahead of them. And they were giving McGrath a run for his money when he was here.

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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by mildlyinterested »

Say Healy extends for 2 more seasons after 2021..retiring in June 2023 at 35..

At the start of the 23/24 season the Leinster depth chart would look like something like this at Prop:

Ed Byrne(30)
Peter Dooley(29)
Michael Milne(24)
Jack Boyle(21)
*unidentifed academy player*

Tadhg Furlong(30)
Andrew Porter(27)
Vakh Abdaladze(27)
Tom Clarkson(23)
*unidentifed academy player*

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ronk
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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by ronk »

If none of Healy, McGrath or Kilcoyne make the next RWC then you then it really looks like Leinster looseheads vs ex-Leinster looseheads.

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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by Jonny tight lips »

ronk wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 6:46 pm
The premise is about long term replacements for players over 30. Healy, Kilcoyne and McGrath could all age out over a narrow window. If that happens then the Irish depth chart is open to anyone who hits form.

I’m not convinced that O’Sullivan is definitely ahead of them. And they were giving McGrath a run for his money when he was here.
Well I don’t think we’re going to agree so let’s leave this one down to time to see if the guys are deemed good enough by the national team bosses in the coming years. I genuinely hope your right. I’m not slating the lads, I just think they’re more Ross Maloney than James Ryan.

Happy birthday Ed by the way 😀😀😀.
Last edited by Jonny tight lips on September 9th, 2020, 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Laighin Break
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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by Laighin Break »

ronk wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 7:32 pm
If none of Healy, McGrath or Kilcoyne make the next RWC then you then it really looks like Leinster looseheads vs ex-Leinster looseheads.
Even with Healy and McGrath in tow, it's Leinster looseheads vs ex-Leinster looseheads.

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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by alanair »

munster#1 wrote:
September 8th, 2020, 3:55 pm
Jerry Flannery was interviewed recently on leaving Munster, and he went into the reasoning behind Munster struggling to win a HC.
I think they made 3 semi finals in his time as coach, and he is quoted as saying that a team needs 8 or 9 starting internationals to win a HC, and Munster has 4.

By that metric, you would have to review the players leaving and consider what is coming behind them.

Disclaimer: not saying that this metric is 100% accurate, and I have not researched to see if it is actually the case with past winners.
Mmm... and there was I thinking the subject was ‘Replacing LEINSTER’S older generation over next 12 to 24 months’

Maybe I was wrong

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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by munster#1 »

alanair wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 11:05 pm
munster#1 wrote:
September 8th, 2020, 3:55 pm
Jerry Flannery was interviewed recently on leaving Munster, and he went into the reasoning behind Munster struggling to win a HC.
I think they made 3 semi finals in his time as coach, and he is quoted as saying that a team needs 8 or 9 starting internationals to win a HC, and Munster has 4.

By that metric, you would have to review the players leaving and consider what is coming behind them.

Disclaimer: not saying that this metric is 100% accurate, and I have not researched to see if it is actually the case with past winners.
Mmm... and there was I thinking the subject was ‘Replacing LEINSTER’S older generation over next 12 to 24 months’

Maybe I was wrong
I suspect that you missed the point on this one?
Not surprised.

The rule, if you want to call it that, applies to all teams.
In this case I think it is an apt point.

No matter who Leinster lose over the next 12-24 months, as long as they still have a core group of starting internationals, then they should still be capable of winning HC’s.
If they lose lots of internationals and replace them with squad players, or players outside the international group then they may struggle.

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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by paddyor »

Just like Glasgow, Edinburgh, Scarlets or the Ospreys of old.
Ruddock's tackle stats consistently too low for me to be taken seriously as a Six Nations blindside..... Ruddock's defensive stats don't stack up. - All Blacks Nil, Jan 15th, 2014
England A 8 - 14 Ireland A, 25th Jan 2014
Ruddock(c) 19/2 Tackles

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Re: Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

Post by curates_egg »

munster#1 wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 11:46 pm
alanair wrote:
September 9th, 2020, 11:05 pm
munster#1 wrote:
September 8th, 2020, 3:55 pm
Jerry Flannery was interviewed recently on leaving Munster, and he went into the reasoning behind Munster struggling to win a HC.
I think they made 3 semi finals in his time as coach, and he is quoted as saying that a team needs 8 or 9 starting internationals to win a HC, and Munster has 4.

By that metric, you would have to review the players leaving and consider what is coming behind them.

Disclaimer: not saying that this metric is 100% accurate, and I have not researched to see if it is actually the case with past winners.
Mmm... and there was I thinking the subject was ‘Replacing LEINSTER’S older generation over next 12 to 24 months’

Maybe I was wrong
I suspect that you missed the point on this one?
Not surprised.

The rule, if you want to call it that, applies to all teams.
In this case I think it is an apt point.

No matter who Leinster lose over the next 12-24 months, as long as they still have a core group of starting internationals, then they should still be capable of winning HC’s.
If they lose lots of internationals and replace them with squad players, or players outside the international group then they may struggle.
I have heard this 9 starting international players mantra from various ex-Munster players now, and I am not fully convinced by it.
Having a high proportion of starting internationals can be disruptive to a squad and continuity over a season.
Obviously, the more top standard players you have, the better. But, ideally, there would be some world class players, who are not distracted by international rugby. Toulon took that model to the extreme; but Munster missed a trick by giving Snyman and De Allende international carte blanche.

For Leinster, when we made our breakthrough, I think you could argue that it was - in part - facilitated by us having a core of international standard players who were being overlooked for the national team (depending on which season, Heaslip, Healy, Jennings, Cullen, Fitzgerald), as well as international quality foreigners who didn't play much international rugby (depending on which season, Le Roux, Contepomi, Rocky, Nacewa, Whittaker, Wright).

For our current squad, and the impact of replacing the older generation, loosehead and wing/full back are the main places where we look to have possible gaps. Maybe Byrne and Dooley will more consistently step up to the potential they have shown in the past, but that is the main spot where I think we may need to recruit to fill a gap.
Last edited by curates_egg on September 10th, 2020, 10:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

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