Replacing Leinster's older generation over next 12 to 24 months

[hugonaut]

Nash had what was described as a "break-out" performance last weekend against Brisbane Lions - a very positive write up: https://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/9930 ... k-out-game

[Laighin Break]

For comparison, the biggest loss to Dublin GAA over the past few years was James Madden joining the Brisbane Lions, after setting the 20m sprint record in the Draft Combine. He's 2 years younger than Conor Nash and had his break out season this year, featuring in 9 games.
Everyone was raving about him after his first performance, think he even kicked a goal.

[https://www.lions.com.au/players/1899/j ... statistics]

[IanD]

Folks

Can we please keep the Aussie Rules talk to the other sports section.

[ronk]

Thought it was more interesting than the time to ditch Sexton stuff.

At this stage Cronin and Toner are out of the international picture for 2 years (& not nailed on starters for Leinster), while Sexton and Healy had the summer off and get a proper preseason.

It looks like Dave Kearney has a while too.

Squad wise the big question becomes about whether we go all the way down the same path of 3 locks that we've been seeing for a while but was even bigger for the Lions tour.

[Degz]

Thought it was more interesting than the time to ditch Sexton stuff.

At this stage Cronin and Toner are out of the international picture for 2 years (& not nailed on starters for Leinster), while Sexton and Healy had the summer off and get a proper preseason.

It looks like Dave Kearney has a while too.

Squad wise the big question becomes about whether we go all the way down the same path of 3 locks that we've been seeing for a while but was even bigger for the Lions tour.

I think realistically we have that option, even though he doesn't play lock, Ruddock plays the brute force blindside option for us quite nicely.

I fervently hope that Leinster remain an antidote to the anti-rugby that we're seeing lately. When elusive outside centres like Ringer become extinct then I'm not sure union is any different to league and the game is gone.

[Oldschool]

Thought it was more interesting than the time to ditch Sexton stuff.

At this stage Cronin and Toner are out of the international picture for 2 years (& not nailed on starters for Leinster), while Sexton and Healy had the summer off and get a proper preseason.

It looks like Dave Kearney has a while too.

Squad wise the big question becomes about whether we go all the way down the same path of 3 locks that we've been seeing for a while but was even bigger for the Lions tour.

In two years time neither Sexton or Healy will be playing in the RWC. If the title of this thread has any relevance then discussing their replacements is surely the issue.

[ronk]

I'm not certain about that. I also think that Leinster already have the players in place who will replace them and a pathway to develop them without drastic action.

If we need to play 3 starting locks and 1 or 2 subs then our panel is short. Especially as without a great big f-off lock we are more likely to need to play a lock at blindside to compensate. And replacing Toner becomes more important.

[wixfjord]

I'm not certain about that. I also think that Leinster already have the players in place who will replace them and a pathway to develop them without drastic action.

If we need to play 3 starting locks and 1 or 2 subs then our panel is short. Especially as without a great big f-off lock we are more likely to need to play a lock at blindside to compensate. And replacing Toner becomes more important.

Who is the player to replace Healy do you think? Milne/Boyle?

[riocard911]

A: Boyle, IMO.

[wixfjord]

A: Boyle, IMO.

Hmmm, I know Boyle is very highly rated and I hope so.

But massive pressure to put on a guy who is 18 (?) and hasn't played a min of senior rugby to replace one of our greatest ever.

[Ruckedtobits]

I'm not certain about that. I also think that Leinster already have the players in place who will replace them and a pathway to develop them without drastic action.

If we need to play 3 starting locks and 1 or 2 subs then our panel is short. Especially as without a great big f-off lock we are more likely to need to play a lock at blindside to compensate. And replacing Toner becomes more important.

Who is the player to replace Healy do you think? Milne/Boyle?

Hopefully Porter, having seen our THP prospects and those who could re-signed from elsewhere having matured nicely.

[FLIP]

I'm not certain about that. I also think that Leinster already have the players in place who will replace them and a pathway to develop them without drastic action.

If we need to play 3 starting locks and 1 or 2 subs then our panel is short. Especially as without a great big f-off lock we are more likely to need to play a lock at blindside to compensate. And replacing Toner becomes more important.

Who is the player to replace Healy do you think? Milne/Boyle?

Hopefully Porter, having seen our THP prospects and those who could re-signed from elsewhere having matured nicely.

If Porter was any good at LH he would have stayed there. He was firmly behind our current 2nd and 3rd choice LHs.

[ronk]

Dooley and Byrne are good enough for now. Obviously not ever going to hit the same level as Healy at his peak or be at the top for as long as Healy. Solid players nonetheless.

[wixfjord]

If Porter was any good at LH he would have stayed there. He was firmly behind our current 2nd and 3rd choice LHs.

Porter played 1 season of LH at pro level when he was 20/21 (his first season) and got 200 mins of gametime.

Dooley (who is 2.5 years older and was in his third year out of the academy) got 600 mins that year and Byrne got less than 50 due to injury.

So I think you're hamming the 'he was firmly behind' bit up quite a bit!

Given how well he has played at TH, how LH is ostensibly an 'easier' position and how good he is in the loose, I think it's a no brainer for him to move back.

Only complicating factor is Tadhg's 1 year deal.

[Oldschoolsocks]

If Porter was any good at LH he would have stayed there. He was firmly behind our current 2nd and 3rd choice LHs.

Porter played 1 season of LH at pro level when he was 20/21 (his first season) and got 200 mins of gametime.

Dooley (who is 2.5 years older and was in his third year out of the academy) got 600 mins that year and Byrne got less than 50 due to injury.

So I think you're hamming the 'he was firmly behind' bit up quite a bit!

Given how well he has played at TH, how LH is ostensibly an 'easier' position and how good he is in the loose, I think it's a no brainer for him to move back.

Only complicating factor is Tadhg's 1 year deal.

Is Loosehead an easier position though?

[wixfjord]

If Porter was any good at LH he would have stayed there. He was firmly behind our current 2nd and 3rd choice LHs.

Porter played 1 season of LH at pro level when he was 20/21 (his first season) and got 200 mins of gametime.

Dooley (who is 2.5 years older and was in his third year out of the academy) got 600 mins that year and Byrne got less than 50 due to injury.

So I think you're hamming the 'he was firmly behind' bit up quite a bit!

Given how well he has played at TH, how LH is ostensibly an 'easier' position and how good he is in the loose, I think it's a no brainer for him to move back.

Only complicating factor is Tadhg's 1 year deal.

Is Loosehead an easier position though?

I've never stuck my head in a scrum so I've no idea.

But given the enormous disparity in wages between LH & TH across the Northern Hemisphere I would say yes (which is another reason Porter might not want to switch back).

[FLIP]

Porter played 1 season of LH at pro level when he was 20/21 (his first season) and got 200 mins of gametime.

Dooley (who is 2.5 years older and was in his third year out of the academy) got 600 mins that year and Byrne got less than 50 due to injury.

So I think you're hamming the 'he was firmly behind' bit up quite a bit!

Given how well he has played at TH, how LH is ostensibly an 'easier' position and how good he is in the loose, I think it's a no brainer for him to move back.

Only complicating factor is Tadhg's 1 year deal.

Is Loosehead an easier position though?

I've never stuck my head in a scrum so I've no idea.

But given the enormous disparity in wages between LH & TH across the Northern Hemisphere I would say yes (which is another reason Porter might not want to switch back).

As someone who has stuck my head in a scrum both at LH and TH (and was paid to do so too) my personal opinion is that LH is easier to play to an acceptable level than TH, but is as difficult to master as TH. But each prop would differ.

Porter didn't come good until he moved over to TH. Why would a Lions quality TH, who would have been a test Lion except for injuries, risk his career by changing positions for no good reason?

[wixfjord]

Porter didn't come good until he moved over to TH. Why would a Lions quality TH, who would have been a test Lion except for injuries, risk his career by changing positions for no good reason?

Porter didn't 'come good' until he started playing pro rugby is basically what you're saying there. He was an incredible talent at U20 level playing as a LH too.

In fact the likelehood is he would've been as good, if not better (due to the time it took to acclimatise to the TH side and the lessened ability to use his loose skills there) if he had stayed in LH side.

The reason we're having this conversation is that there is a conversation to be had! It's not 'no good reason'. We have a coming gap at LH and there's the potential to have a world class player to fill it.

Clearly it's something Leo, Farrell and others have thought about.

[Degz]

Assuming we can get Tadgh onto a longer term contract once finance normalise again, I think it's a no-brainer for Leinster and Ireland to want to move Porter over to LH.

However, it's also a no-brainer for Porter to want to stay at TH, given the almost double salary he could command on that side of the scrum. Instead of forcing him over, could we be forcing him out?

[wixfjord]

Assuming we can get Tadgh onto a longer term contract once finance normalise again, I think it's a no-brainer for Leinster and Ireland to want to move Porter over to LH.

However, it's also a no-brainer for Porter to want to stay at TH, given the almost double salary he could command on that side of the scrum. Instead of forcing him over, could we be forcing him out?

Yes that's the big challenge. Obviously Porter has to be happy that he's benefitting.

I think the idea of him being starting LH in green and blue for the next decade if things go well is a nice opportunity to put in front of him.