Leinster Academy 20-21

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blaker
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by blaker »

mildlyinterested wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 6:02 pm
blaker wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 5:51 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 5:33 pm
Irish rugby can't afford to be losing talents like Hickey and Martin.

Leinster rugby can't be losing talents like Martin given his background and athletic ability from system. Very disappointing, Leinster had every opportunity to retain him..
Is there a reason they didn’t?

3 year academy contract he’s taken - so not like he’s made a huge leap up the ladder.
Heard they wanted him to do another season in the sub academy due to lack of rugby this season.
If push came to shove and they knew he was off - apart from optics/pride - what’s the differential between sub and full academy? I presume money is marginal enough? Just a case of space?
Leinster jersey on the Great Wall of China.The Mongolians couldn't breach it but the Blues did!

Jcahill1
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by Jcahill1 »

blaker wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 6:20 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 6:02 pm
blaker wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 5:51 pm


Is there a reason they didn’t?

3 year academy contract he’s taken - so not like he’s made a huge leap up the ladder.
Heard they wanted him to do another season in the sub academy due to lack of rugby this season.
If push came to shove and they knew he was off - apart from optics/pride - what’s the differential between sub and full academy? I presume money is marginal enough? Just a case of space?
Less security in the sub academy I suppose.

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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by Keith »

Fair play to him for taking the opportunity, hopefully it works out for him.

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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by Morf »

Jcahill1 wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 8:53 pm
blaker wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 6:20 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
April 2nd, 2021, 6:02 pm


Heard they wanted him to do another season in the sub academy due to lack of rugby this season.
If push came to shove and they knew he was off - apart from optics/pride - what’s the differential between sub and full academy? I presume money is marginal enough? Just a case of space?
Less security in the sub academy I suppose.
No money either. Academy contracts have set wages directed by IRFU and yearly renewals.

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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by Keith »

Does this mean he won't be picked for the Ireland u20s team?

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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by Twist »

Peg Leg wrote:
mildlyinterested wrote:
March 23rd, 2021, 11:55 am
Image

Cosgrave with senior squad last friday.
Serious pair of Vastus Medialis on him.
I didnt realise you knew him *that* well....

erskinechilders
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by erskinechilders »

Not offering him an academy contract seems odd, considering how long he's been on the radar. I presume Osborne has taken an academy slot, along with Cosgrave & Corkery, would I be right in saying that? So thats 3 backs joining and you already have O'Reilly, Turner, Smith, Comerford? I presume O'Sullivan & Silvester will be released and Hawkshaw will move to a development contract?

Whats so special about Martins' athletic ability? He doesn't look massively different to the rest of them!

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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by LeinsterLeader »

More surprisingly, seen as he's so well regarded, is that there wasn't a group of academy coaches from the other provinces standing outside the sub academy with contracts waiting for him when he came out! I mean just because Leinster don't think he fits the bill (for whatever reason), doesn't mean he needs to be lost to the IRFU.

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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by joooooe »

LeinsterLeader wrote:
April 3rd, 2021, 12:08 pm
More surprisingly, seen as he's so well regarded, is that there wasn't a group of academy coaches from the other provinces standing outside the sub academy with contracts waiting for him when he came out! I mean just because Leinster don't think he fits the bill (for whatever reason), doesn't mean he needs to be lost to the IRFU.
In fairness, the Munster recruitment reps would have been but they've been stuck in South Africa.

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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by berliner »

Have many Irish players joined French academies in the past? I worked a winter in France at 18 and it was challenging culturally at that age.

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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by ronk »

joooooe wrote:
April 3rd, 2021, 12:23 pm
LeinsterLeader wrote:
April 3rd, 2021, 12:08 pm
More surprisingly, seen as he's so well regarded, is that there wasn't a group of academy coaches from the other provinces standing outside the sub academy with contracts waiting for him when he came out! I mean just because Leinster don't think he fits the bill (for whatever reason), doesn't mean he needs to be lost to the IRFU.
In fairness, the Munster recruitment reps would have been but they've been stuck in South Africa.
Munster don’t go for guys who are struggling to make the academy, they then have to develop them. Munster only go for the finished article.

If Martin is a big enough success that he gets international aspirations then Munster will be 1st in line or maybe if they just want squad filler and he’s desperate (cheap). Otherwise, it’s no loss to Munster.

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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by Keith »

berliner wrote:
April 3rd, 2021, 2:03 pm
Have many Irish players joined French academies in the past? I worked a winter in France at 18 and it was challenging culturally at that age.
Eoghan Barrett joined the Pau academy along with another Munster lad a couple of years ago and earned a 2 year contract recently off the back of it.

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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by mildlyinterested »

It was a bad misjudgment by leinster academy selectors to think Martin would be happy to do another season in the sub-academy, this backfired badly with them losing a big time talent to france.

Best of luck to Karl in france, takes courage to make that move and back yourself, shame that a very talented club player is lost to the system, doesn't look great or change the impression that it's harder to get into the academy if you come from a club background.

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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by Keith »

mildlyinterested wrote:
April 5th, 2021, 2:04 pm
It was a bad misjudgment by leinster academy selectors to think Martin would be happy to do another season in the sub-academy, this backfired badly with them losing a big time talent to france.

Best of luck to Karl in france, takes courage to make that move and back yourself, shame that a very talented club player is lost to the system, doesn't look great or change the impression that it's harder to get into the academy if you come from a club background.
He doesn't have to be necessarily lost to the system though, he should be picked for the u20s (if good enough) just like the exiles do when they play in the academies in England. The Tadgh McElroy situation was a farce and a blot on the IRFU.

Lets face it, if he comes good over there he would jump at a chance to sign with Leinster or indeed another province, I only see positives for him with this move.

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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by mildlyinterested »

erskinechilders wrote:
April 3rd, 2021, 11:41 am
Not offering him an academy contract seems odd, considering how long he's been on the radar. I presume Osborne has taken an academy slot, along with Cosgrave & Corkery, would I be right in saying that? So thats 3 backs joining and you already have O'Reilly, Turner, Smith, Comerford? I presume O'Sullivan & Silvester will be released and Hawkshaw will move to a development contract?

Whats so special about Martins' athletic ability? He doesn't look massively different to the rest of them!
Martin is a pure centre, his competition in the academy would have been Turner and Osborne.

The athletic ability of Turner vs Martin, well there's no comparison in terms of potential.

retaining Turner for a 3rd year and losing Martin is a net negative for Leinster going forward, they can't expect talents like Martin to do two years for free in the sub-academy, they obviously thought they could get Martin to wait, they were wrong.

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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by erskinechilders »

So you think it was a straight shoot out between Turner and Martin? What size of a man is Martin? Because Turner is small for a centre and a little too similar to Hawkshaw ( not in style but size ). If so then its disappointing because we need some good young centres.

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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by mildlyinterested »

erskinechilders wrote:
April 7th, 2021, 9:57 am
So you think it was a straight shoot out between Turner and Martin? What size of a man is Martin? Because Turner is small for a centre and a little too similar to Hawkshaw ( not in style but size ). If so then its disappointing because we need some good young centres.
Martin's probably 6'2 nearing 100kg at 19.

Image

leinster don't produce enough backs of that size and skill to be overlooking them, it's a pretty disappointing outcome, as it's not like Martin was an unknown he has been flagged for a long time as someone with the talent required.

here's a good article on Martin: https://www.independent.ie/regionals/dr ... 37901.html

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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by LeinsterLeader »

In Fairness MI you're putting forward a good argument to suggest there's more to this then meets the eye and as we're unlikely to ever know what that might be we just have to trust the coaches. It does happen that they sometimes get it wrong and good players get away but not that often.

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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by mildlyinterested »

LeinsterLeader wrote:
April 7th, 2021, 11:15 am
In Fairness MI you're putting forward a good argument to suggest there's more to this then meets the eye and as we're unlikely to ever know what that might be we just have to trust the coaches. It does happen that they sometimes get it wrong and good players get away but not that often.
true, leinster will move on, hope it works out for Karl and maybe down the line we see him in blue.

it's a shame to see club players overlooked by system, it's hard enough as is to make it from that background.
Last edited by mildlyinterested on April 7th, 2021, 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by LeinsterLeader »

I agree and I'm not arguing with you on his ability. From what you've said it's a real head scratcher as to why they didn't offer him a full place. Maybe other factors came in to play. Marseille not the worst place to spent a few years in your early twenties, for instance.

But as you say, here's hoping we see him back in blue in the not to distant future.

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