Leinster Academy 20-21

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mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by mildlyinterested »

Max O'Reilly showed his quality last night. :clap:

Lock9541
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by Lock9541 »

mildlyinterested wrote:
March 6th, 2021, 1:10 pm
Ruckedtobits wrote:
March 6th, 2021, 1:07 pm
Really good story here of one that got away:

https://www.the42.ie/cormac-izuchukwu-u ... 6-Mar2021/
real miss by leinster IMO.

Had a real look at him in the summer/autumn of 2019 and passed.

not enough of these projects with high athletic upside are persisted with in leinster setup, leinster's spotty 2nd row development really covered up by the Ryan and Baird being can't miss players coming out of school.
He was a really late developer tbf. He grew about 3-4 inches after school. He wasn’t that good in school.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by mildlyinterested »

Lock9541 wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 9:19 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
March 6th, 2021, 1:10 pm
Ruckedtobits wrote:
March 6th, 2021, 1:07 pm
Really good story here of one that got away:

https://www.the42.ie/cormac-izuchukwu-u ... 6-Mar2021/
real miss by leinster IMO.

Had a real look at him in the summer/autumn of 2019 and passed.

not enough of these projects with high athletic upside are persisted with in leinster setup, leinster's spotty 2nd row development really covered up by the Ryan and Baird being can't miss players coming out of school.
He was a really late developer tbf. He grew about 3-4 inches after school. He wasn’t that good in school.
you'd hope that what someone does in school doesn't really have a major bearing on whether a player gets an academy offer or not.

especially when a player is playing a different position and has grown so much.

Lock9541
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by Lock9541 »

mildlyinterested wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 9:54 am
Lock9541 wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 9:19 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
March 6th, 2021, 1:10 pm


real miss by leinster IMO.

Had a real look at him in the summer/autumn of 2019 and passed.

not enough of these projects with high athletic upside are persisted with in leinster setup, leinster's spotty 2nd row development really covered up by the Ryan and Baird being can't miss players coming out of school.
He was a really late developer tbf. He grew about 3-4 inches after school. He wasn’t that good in school.
you'd hope that what someone does in school doesn't really have a major bearing on whether a player gets an academy offer or not.

especially when a player is playing a different position and has grown so much.
Once you don’t get sub academy straight after school it’s extremely hard to get back into the system. More than likely you won’t make it in Leinster if you don’t make sub academy/u20s straight after school. That’s just how the system works.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by mildlyinterested »

Lock9541 wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 11:26 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 9:54 am
Lock9541 wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 9:19 am


He was a really late developer tbf. He grew about 3-4 inches after school. He wasn’t that good in school.
you'd hope that what someone does in school doesn't really have a major bearing on whether a player gets an academy offer or not.

especially when a player is playing a different position and has grown so much.
Once you don’t get sub academy straight after school it’s extremely hard to get back into the system. More than likely you won’t make it in Leinster if you don’t make sub academy/u20s straight after school. That’s just how the system works.
I know.

But there are exceptions and Izzy was involved with Leinster 20's/sub-academy the summer of 2019 after returning from Scotland.

Leinster need to be better at expanding the player base given academy contracts, the majority of players coming from two schools isn't good for Leinster rugby.

riocard911
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by riocard911 »

mildlyinterested wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 11:33 am
Lock9541 wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 11:26 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 9:54 am


you'd hope that what someone does in school doesn't really have a major bearing on whether a player gets an academy offer or not.

especially when a player is playing a different position and has grown so much.
Once you don’t get sub academy straight after school it’s extremely hard to get back into the system. More than likely you won’t make it in Leinster if you don’t make sub academy/u20s straight after school. That’s just how the system works.
I know.

But there are exceptions and Izzy was involved with Leinster 20's/sub-academy the summer of 2019 after returning from Scotland.

Leinster need to be better at expanding the player base given academy contracts, the majority of players coming from two schools isn't good for Leinster rugby.
They don't! It's not just Rock and Michael's, Belvo's in there too!!!! 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

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ronk
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by ronk »

mildlyinterested wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 11:33 am
Lock9541 wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 11:26 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 9:54 am


you'd hope that what someone does in school doesn't really have a major bearing on whether a player gets an academy offer or not.

especially when a player is playing a different position and has grown so much.
Once you don’t get sub academy straight after school it’s extremely hard to get back into the system. More than likely you won’t make it in Leinster if you don’t make sub academy/u20s straight after school. That’s just how the system works.
I know.

But there are exceptions and Izzy was involved with Leinster 20's/sub-academy the summer of 2019 after returning from Scotland.

Leinster need to be better at expanding the player base given academy contracts, the majority of players coming from two schools isn't good for Leinster rugby.
He was a long long shot and our academy might not have been the best path for him anyway.

Leinster have exceptional young depth at the position so I can understand why another province would take a punt on him when we might not. Fair play to Ulster.

There are question marks given Beirne and Izuchukwu slipping through. But there are other good players who weren’t missed.

I thought at the time that Leinster would be making a mistake to not give Charlie Ryan a shot (could still turn out to be a good move).

Even if Cormac Izuchukwu was a mistake, Baird is the same age and just mads his Ireland debut, so there’s context around how big a mistake.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by mildlyinterested »

ronk wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 1:48 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 11:33 am
Lock9541 wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 11:26 am


Once you don’t get sub academy straight after school it’s extremely hard to get back into the system. More than likely you won’t make it in Leinster if you don’t make sub academy/u20s straight after school. That’s just how the system works.
I know.

But there are exceptions and Izzy was involved with Leinster 20's/sub-academy the summer of 2019 after returning from Scotland.

Leinster need to be better at expanding the player base given academy contracts, the majority of players coming from two schools isn't good for Leinster rugby.
He was a long long shot and our academy might not have been the best path for him anyway.

Leinster have exceptional young depth at the position so I can understand why another province would take a punt on him when we might not. Fair play to Ulster.

There are question marks given Beirne and Izuchukwu slipping through. But there are other good players who weren’t missed.

I thought at the time that Leinster would be making a mistake to not give Charlie Ryan a shot (could still turn out to be a good move).

Even if Cormac Izuchukwu was a mistake, Baird is the same age and just mads his Ireland debut, so there’s context around how big a mistake.
Beirne, Thornbury and Izuchukwu all big time athletes who we've let slip through.

And it wasn't Izuchukwu vs CRyan or Baird, it was Izuchukwu vs McCarthy for an academy place.

Ruckedtobits
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by Ruckedtobits »

These are really hard calls to make because there's no YouTube channel to study Future Development. if a guy hasn't developed enough to be getting regular A Game or AIL First Div selection, the judgement tends to be made on the highest level he's played and been watched.

A lot of hours and travel goes into keeping all candidates under review but because so many are watched, some inevitably slip through the net. Fair does to Izzy, he's taken his Ulster opportunity well and I hope his progress continues. They need his sort of size and athleticism in the front five.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by mildlyinterested »

No doubt it's hard calls to make, just think maybe leinster could take more chances on projects and athletes from non-traditional areas.. maybe..

Izzy's progress to pro 14 rugby has been very quick and with very little rugby played at lock, how leinster didn't see this potential and want to invest in it is of interest.

Moving on from Tadhg Beirne and Gavin Thornbury when they did too makes you wonder is there an indication in leinster to not invest in high upside athletes who may take a bit more time to develop over more solid and steady times.

It's not just limited to lock either, would Robert Balacoune have came through the leinster setup? I dunno..

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ronk
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by ronk »

I dunno. The price for taking a punt in the academy isn’t for 1 year, it’s for 3.

Leinster took a lot of guys in within a year or so (age) either way: Dunne, Baird, Deeny, C Ryan, Joe McCarthy.

Ulster were fundamentally in a different space and they’ve done really well rescuing treasure from our scrapheap.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by mildlyinterested »

ronk wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 2:23 pm
I dunno. The price for taking a punt in the academy isn’t for 1 year, it’s for 3.

Leinster took a lot of guys in within a year or so (age) either way: Dunne, Baird, Deeny, C Ryan, Joe McCarthy.

Ulster were fundamentally in a different space and they’ve done really well rescuing treasure from our scrapheap.
No, it's not.

Academy contracts are for 1 year, generally players get the benefit of 3 years to develop but it's not guaranteed.

Leinster had Charlie Ryan and Brian Deeny in the academy moving to Y2. Baird and Dunne were already out of the academy.

There was room for a high upside athlete like Izzy in the academy or at least you'd like to think so.

Ulster were certainly in a different position and fair play to them in investing in Izzy, it looks like it will pay off.

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ronk
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by ronk »

I was sceptical of the 7s program for player development but I think it has turned guys careers around.

Clearly not for everyone.

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ronk
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by ronk »

mildlyinterested wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 2:27 pm
ronk wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 2:23 pm
I dunno. The price for taking a punt in the academy isn’t for 1 year, it’s for 3.

Leinster took a lot of guys in within a year or so (age) either way: Dunne, Baird, Deeny, C Ryan, Joe McCarthy.

Ulster were fundamentally in a different space and they’ve done really well rescuing treasure from our scrapheap.
No, it's not.

Academy contracts are for 1 year, generally players get the benefit of 3 years to develop but it's not guaranteed.

Leinster had Charlie Ryan and Brian Deeny in the academy moving to Y2. Baird and Dunne were already out of the academy.

There was room for a high upside athlete like Izzy in the academy or at least you'd like to think so.

Ulster were certainly in a different position and fair play to them in investing in Izzy, it looks like it will pay off.
Leinster had 5 players in a close age bracket and 2 guys in Ryan and Molony who are/were still pretty young. And older experienced guys too, of course.

Maybe Leinster should have found more room but they’d still have struggled to give people gametime. Lot of guys chasing limited minutes.

The contracts might be for 1 year but there’s a presumption that guys get 3 years.

Maybe the bigger story is that there are 3 ex-Leinster setup locks who quickly improved under NZ influence. Maybe we would benefit from additional skills coaching.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by mildlyinterested »

ronk wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 3:04 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 2:27 pm
ronk wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 2:23 pm
I dunno. The price for taking a punt in the academy isn’t for 1 year, it’s for 3.

Leinster took a lot of guys in within a year or so (age) either way: Dunne, Baird, Deeny, C Ryan, Joe McCarthy.

Ulster were fundamentally in a different space and they’ve done really well rescuing treasure from our scrapheap.
No, it's not.

Academy contracts are for 1 year, generally players get the benefit of 3 years to develop but it's not guaranteed.

Leinster had Charlie Ryan and Brian Deeny in the academy moving to Y2. Baird and Dunne were already out of the academy.

There was room for a high upside athlete like Izzy in the academy or at least you'd like to think so.

Ulster were certainly in a different position and fair play to them in investing in Izzy, it looks like it will pay off.
Leinster had 5 players in a close age bracket and 2 guys in Ryan and Molony who are/were still pretty young. And older experienced guys too, of course.

Maybe Leinster should have found more room but they’d still have struggled to give people gametime. Lot of guys chasing limited minutes.

The contracts might be for 1 year but there’s a presumption that guys get 3 years.

Maybe the bigger story is that there are 3 ex-Leinster setup locks who quickly improved under NZ influence. Maybe we would benefit from additional skills coaching.
unquestionably for me, very odd that we don't have a dedicated skills coach in the setup and it's reflected in some of our passing and how we play.
Last edited by mildlyinterested on March 7th, 2021, 3:30 pm, edited 2 times in total.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by mildlyinterested »

ronk wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 2:47 pm
I was sceptical of the 7s program for player development but I think it has turned guys careers around.

Clearly not for everyone.
been great for several players and really helped their development in recent years - JOB, Connors, Keenan...you'd wonder if Larmour would be a more rounded player if he had spent some time playing 7's.

Lock9541
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by Lock9541 »

7s is a lot harder than Union. It’s really good for development.

alanair
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by alanair »

Lock9541 wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 4:04 pm
7s is a lot harder than Union. It’s really good for development.
Im really not sure how your comment holds up here... 7's is a completely different game to 15 a side , with mainly different skill sets required ( wingers excepted)

Lock9541
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by Lock9541 »

alanair wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 4:30 pm
Lock9541 wrote:
March 7th, 2021, 4:04 pm
7s is a lot harder than Union. It’s really good for development.
Im really not sure how your comment holds up here... 7's is a completely different game to 15 a side , with mainly different skill sets required ( wingers excepted)
It requires more fitness and skill. You have to be extremely fit to play 7s it’s constant sprinting.

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Dave Cahill
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Re: Leinster Academy 20-21

Post by Dave Cahill »

So can we expect to see Terry Kennedy and Jordan Conroy - two of the A list stars of Sevens rugby - on the wings against England next week?

Can we to f%~k?
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