Leinster Academy 2021-22

[mildlyinterested]

The following academy players are injured:

Marcus Hanan
Temi Lasisi
Jack Boyle
Lee Barron
Charlie Ryan
Joe McCarthy
Alex Soroka
Ben Murphy
Andrew Smith
Max O'Reilly

[mildlyinterested]

Leinster Rugby Development XV vs. Munster Rugby Development XV

15. Aitzol Arenzana-King(Balbriggan RFC-CUS/Clontarf)(u20)
14. Fionn Gibbons(Castleknock/UCD)(u20)
13. Ben Brownlee(Blackrock)(u20)
12. Daniel Hawkshaw(Belvedere)(u20)
11. Callam O’Reilly(St. Michaels)(u20)
10. David Hawkshaw(Belvedere/Clontarf)
9. Cormac Foley(St. Gerards/Lansdowne)
1. Ben Popplewell(Wexford RFC/Lansdowne)(u20)
2. John McKee(Campbell/Old Belvedere)(CAPTAIN)
3. Vakh Abdalaze(Coolmine RFC/Clontarf)
4. Fionn McWey(Portlaoise RFC-Roscrea)(u20)
5. Conor O’Tighearnaigh(St. Michaels)(u20)
6. Brian Deeny(Wexford RFC/Clontarf)
7. Martin Moloney(Athy RFC/Clontarf)
8. Luke Callinan(Castleknock)(u20)

Replacements:
16. Howard Noonan(Greystones RFC/Old Wesley)(u20)
17. Oisin Michel(Cill Dara RFC/Lansdowne)(u20)
18. Rory McGuire(Blackrock/UCD)(u20)
19. Ruairi Clarke(Cill Dara RFC/Lansdowne)(u20)
20. Stephen Woods(St. Michaels)(u20)
21. Diarmuid Mangan(Newbridge/UCD)(u19)
22. Seanan Devereux(St. Marys/St. Marys)(u20)
23. Sam Prendergast(Newbridge)(u19)
24. Conor Gibney(Mullingar RFC)(u20)
25. JJ Hession(St. Michaels/Lansdowne)(u20) - TH Prop
26. Barry Gray(Carlow RFC/Clontarf)(u20) - Hooker
27. Michael Molony(Blackrock)(u20) - Scrumhalf
28. Scott Milne(Tullamore RFC)(u20) - Wing

Updated with schools/clubs, still missing some current players current clubs.

Leinster side have 5 players not u20 eligible in squad of 28, Munster have 17 players not u20 eligible in squad of 27.

9 u20 starters vs 2 u20 starters

[wixfjord]

I never understand that the go to response for people who disagree with decisions is that it’s a colossal f%~k up worthy of incessant outrage, particularly when the track record of those experts is so good, and ESPECIALLY if I was very often wrong in my own player evaluations that were actually based on very little footage.

This.

There seems to be some strange attempt at making out Leinster are making massive errors or are messing up academy intake based on very little evidence and on overhyping players who have shown very little so far.

This scenario happening is a function of Leinster having a huge advantage in terms of high quality player numbers. It's a positive effect of the system that guys get picked up, not a negative one. We've always banged on about how great the academy is, so clearly other clubs are going to be looking at our players at that level.

Leinster won't get everything right, but the track record as LRIP says is very good and we can't sign everyone, particularly given the monetary situation.

Massively hyping up guys who fall out of the system is totally knee jerk and a bit childish.

Once again, this guy is 17, came to Ireland 4 years ago, has very little to show for at even a senior schools level and he's being claimed as a great loss? Bit much.

[backrower8]

I never understand that the go to response for people who disagree with decisions is that it’s a colossal f%~k up worthy of incessant outrage, particularly when the track record of those experts is so good, and ESPECIALLY if I was very often wrong in my own player evaluations that were actually based on very little footage.

This.

There seems to be some strange attempt at making out Leinster are making massive errors or are messing up academy intake based on very little evidence and on overhyping players who have shown very little so far.

This scenario happening is a function of Leinster having a huge advantage in terms of high quality player numbers. It's a positive effect of the system that guys get picked up, not a negative one. We've always banged on about how great the academy is, so clearly other clubs are going to be looking at our players at that level.

Leinster won't get everything right, but the track record as LRIP says is very good and we can't sign everyone, particularly given the monetary situation.

Massively hyping up guys who fall out of the system is totally knee jerk and a bit childish.

Once again, this guy is 17, came to Ireland 4 years ago, has very little to show for at even a senior schools level and he's being claimed as a great loss? Bit much.

Hold back on the spice please.


Mildly is anything but these things. The polar opposite.

I don't have a view on recent early signings of young talent (Martin and Newman) as I haven't seen enough of them.

My sense is that our system operates very well. In fact it excels. But I also am open to the likelihood that it is not perfect and I wholeheartedly endorse shining a light on those areas as it, debates here, percolate up the through the system and help lead to improvement.

I will caveat that last point. Disrespectful debates get ignored in the corridors of power with the anonymous 'keyboard warriors' dismissed by people in rugby jobs. So it pays to keep this forum respectful. *PolishesHalo

[Dave Cahill]

Absolutely nobody in the corridors of power pays any attention to, or places any value on, the debates on this or other forums - regardless of the tone. The days of media managers chasing after lads in pubs after they said something on a forum are long gone

[riocard911]

To be fair, Birch on the42 rugby podcast did not proclaim the end of the world cos Pat Lam had picked up Berti Newman. Having coached the guy himself and judging him to be an absolutely exceptional talent, Jackman merely thought Leinster might have been better to keep the lad in our system and used this case to raise the questions (a) as to whether the current recruiting process is too heavily reliant on lads, who's can forgo a decent wage, while living at home with their parents, studying in UCD and playing sub-academy, and (b) how fellas, who maybe don't have that option can be prevented from being recruited early doors by big-spending English and French clubs. All I can say is, I hope we've Alan Spicer somehow locked in already, otherwise we're fupped...

[mildlyinterested]

To be fair, Birch on the42 rugby podcast did not proclaim the end of the world cos Pat Lam had picked up Berti Newman. Having coached the guy himself and judging him to be an absolutely exceptional talent, Jackman merely thought Leinster might have been better to keep the lad in our system and used this case to raise the questions (a) as to whether the current recruiting process is too heavily reliant on lads, who's can forgo a decent wage, while living at home with their parents, studying in UCD and playing sub-academy, and (b) how fellas, who maybe don't have that option can be prevented from being recruited early doors by big-spending English and French clubs. All I can say is, I hope we've Alan Spicer somehow locked in already, otherwise we're fupped...

Nor did I, despite what some others may claim.

Jackman makes many valid points about the system which you have outlined above, some seem to with to dismiss them because of who Jackman is that's their prerogative I guess.

Other than that I'm very happy to let this topic die and have no interest in getting into personal attacks, unlike others.

[wixfjord]

Other than that I'm very happy to let this topic die and have no interest in getting into personal attacks, unlike others.

...

So you admit you have no idea what your talking about, thanks for the input.

[mildlyinterested]

Other than that I'm very happy to let this topic die and have no interest in getting into personal attacks, unlike others.

...

So you admit you have no idea what your talking about, thanks for the input.

you admitted you have never seen the player play, I'm not sure what you were adding to the conversation apart from finding another way to have a dig at me, congrats on that.

I've never seen this guy play, but clearly this 17 year old who moved to Ireland four years ago and didn't play SCT in 6th year is a MASSIVE loss.

(There are shades of Tony Ward calling for Billy Dardis to be in an Irish senior squad about this whole convo...)

[the spoofer]

To be fair, Birch on the42 rugby podcast did not proclaim the end of the world cos Pat Lam had picked up Berti Newman. Having coached the guy himself and judging him to be an absolutely exceptional talent, Jackman merely thought Leinster might have been better to keep the lad in our system and used this case to raise the questions (a) as to whether the current recruiting process is too heavily reliant on lads, who's can forgo a decent wage, while living at home with their parents, studying in UCD and playing sub-academy, and (b) how fellas, who maybe don't have that option can be prevented from being recruited early doors by big-spending English and French clubs. All I can say is, I hope we've Alan Spicer somehow locked in already, otherwise we're fupped...

There's a lad who plays for Leinster, has a load of caps. When coming out of the youths system he had an offer of a development contract with Connacht or an academy with Leinster. He took the Leinster one as he got more for playing AIL while training with Leinster than he would have with Connacht.

Another young lad I know had four clubs after him. All offered accommodation and expenses. He would have done his stint in the sub academy despite not living in D4 and having a rich family. If you are good enough for the sub academy then there are lots of clubs that will look for your services and reward you suitably.

[wixfjord]

you admitted you have never seen the player play, I'm not sure what you were adding to the conversation apart from finding another way to have a dig at me, congrats on that.

Well I think what I'm adding is some context that you talking about a guy who you've admitted you've only seen a handful of times as a 'big loss' is just another example of hyping up a young player and trying to find a way to dig at Leinster, which you seem to love to do!

Nobody has any clue whether he's a 'big loss' really. And we've also no idea why Leinster might've decided not to go hell for leather after him.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

To be fair, Birch on the42 rugby podcast did not proclaim the end of the world cos Pat Lam had picked up Berti Newman. Having coached the guy himself and judging him to be an absolutely exceptional talent, Jackman merely thought Leinster might have been better to keep the lad in our system and used this case to raise the questions (a) as to whether the current recruiting process is too heavily reliant on lads, who's can forgo a decent wage, while living at home with their parents, studying in UCD and playing sub-academy, and (b) how fellas, who maybe don't have that option can be prevented from being recruited early doors by big-spending English and French clubs. All I can say is, I hope we've Alan Spicer somehow locked in already, otherwise we're fupped...

Obviously Leinster need to try and deal with that first point but they also just have to operate within the system.

For me it’s more of a governmental problem than a Leinster one in terms of lowering the cost of living and having accommodation available etc. And that’s not just for rugby players and it’s not just for Dublin, anyone looking to go to college anywhere in Ireland should be able to do so without costs being prohibitive.

Obviously that isn’t going to happen any time soon and Leinster have to work around it but their hands are tied to a large extent because they just don’t have the money to solve it fully.

[riocard911]

To be fair, Birch on the42 rugby podcast did not proclaim the end of the world cos Pat Lam had picked up Berti Newman. Having coached the guy himself and judging him to be an absolutely exceptional talent, Jackman merely thought Leinster might have been better to keep the lad in our system and used this case to raise the questions (a) as to whether the current recruiting process is too heavily reliant on lads, who's can forgo a decent wage, while living at home with their parents, studying in UCD and playing sub-academy, and (b) how fellas, who maybe don't have that option can be prevented from being recruited early doors by big-spending English and French clubs. All I can say is, I hope we've Alan Spicer somehow locked in already, otherwise we're fupped...

Obviously Leinster need to try and deal with that first point but they also just have to operate within the system.

For me it’s more of a governmental problem than a Leinster one in terms of lowering the cost of living and having accommodation available etc. And that’s not just for rugby players and it’s not just for Dublin, anyone looking to go to college anywhere in Ireland should be able to do so without costs being prohibitive.

Obviously that isn’t going to happen any time soon and Leinster have to work around it but their hands are tied to a large extent because they just don’t have the money to solve it fully.

More light and less heat - well done, LRIPh!!!

[ronk]

There's an asymmetry between guys who want places/better packages for those places and can seed stories with journalists and the teams who aren't in a strong position to defend themselves in public. If you're explaining you're losing.

[dropkick]

Not sure what leinster can do about it. Losing players was always on the cards. Young players need games and if they extend the academy that means they will be losing more players coming out of the academy which isnt very efficient. There would also be more players looking for games which would make everyone frustrated. It's a balancing act.

[Lock9541]

It’s a pitty Newman skipped fourth year, would have been better for his development if he played another year of schools cup. Can’t understand why any rugby player in a big rugby school would skip TY. That’s the first time I’ve ever heard a schools rugby player from one of the big rugby schools skipping 4th year.

[mildlyinterested]

Leinster Dev 14 Munster 0

[LeinsterLeader]

Leinster Dev 14 Munster 0

Well, well, well!

Come on now MI, you definitely weren't expecting that

Well done to all involved. A great turn around after last week.

[ronk]

It’s a pitty Newman skipped fourth year, would have been better for his development if he played another year of schools cup. Can’t understand why any rugby player in a big rugby school would skip TY. That’s the first time I’ve ever heard a schools rugby player from one of the big rugby schools skipping 4th year.

Players have lives outside rugby.

He'd rather have a year more as a pro. Which would fit with him going overseas immediately too.

[mildlyinterested]

Leinster Dev 14 Munster 0

Well, well, well!

Come on now MI, you definitely weren't expecting that

Well done to all involved. A great turn around after last week.

of course not after recent results, happy to see them perform and get the win.