Leinster Academy 2021-22

[LeinsterLeader]

remarkably only 1 player from st. michaels in the academy and 7 from blackrock.

2 from Gerards, 2 from club rugby, 1 from roscrea, 1 from belvedere, 1 from clongowes, 1 exile and 1 from ulster

So MI .......any guys you think Leinster missed out on?

[mildlyinterested]

remarkably only 1 player from st. michaels in the academy and 7 from blackrock.

2 from Gerards, 2 from club rugby, 1 from roscrea, 1 from belvedere, 1 from clongowes, 1 exile and 1 from ulster

So MI .......any guys you think Leinster missed out on?

well not really?

Mark Hernan from the 20's is the most notable missing player really and it's assumed he will still be in sub-academy going forward.

Then there is the top players coming out of school, presumably they all are going into sub-academy, so leinster haven't missed out on them.

if anything leinster have given contracts to a few players that are surprises, with younger, possibly more talented players in the sub-academy at the same positions. But then they seem to be putting a premium on doing time in the sub-academy and earning an academy place.

[mildlyinterested]

1996
Andrew Porter(TH Prop/St. Andrews)
Vakh Abdaladze(TH Prop/Coolmine RFC)
James Ryan(Lock/St. Michaels) - central contract
Max Deegan(Backrow/St. Michaels)
Will Connors(Openside/Clongowes)
Rowan Osborne(Scrumhalf/Clongowes)
Conor O'Brien(Centre/Mullingar RFC)
Jimmy O'Brien(Centre/Newbridge)
Hugo Keenan(Fullback/Blackrock)
1997
Ciaran Frawley(Outhalf/Skerries RFC)
Jordan Larmour(Fullback/St. Andrews)
1998
Ronan Kelleher(Hooker/St. Michaels)
Dan Sheehan(Hooker/Clongowes)
Jack Dunne(Lock/St. Michaels)
Caelan Doris(Backrow/Blackrock)
Hugh O'Sullivan(Scrumhalf/Belvedere)
Paddy Patterson(Scrumhalf/Blackrock) - Academy Y3
Tommy O'Brien(Centre/Blackrock)
Michael Silvester(Fullback/Clongowes) - Academy Y3
1999
Michael Milne(LH Prop/Birr RFC-Roscrea) - Academy Y3
Ryan Baird(Lock/St. Michaels)
Charlie Ryan(Lock/Blackrock) - Academy
Scott Penny(Openside/St. Michaels)
Martin Moloney(Openside/Athy RFC) - Academy Y2
Cormac Foley(Scrumhalf/St. Gerards) - Academy Y2
Harry Byrne(Outhalf/St. Michaels)
David Hawkshaw(Outhalf/Belvedere) - Academy Y3
Liam Turner(Centre/Blackrock) - Academy Y2
Aaron O'Sullivan(Wing/Exile) - Academy Y3
2000
Tom Clarkson(TH Prop/Blackrock) - Academy Y2
John McKee(Hooker/Campbell) - Academy Y1
Brian Deeny(Lock/Wexford RFC) - Academy Y2
Sean O'Brien(Backrow/Blackrock) - Academy Y1
Andrew Smith(Wing/St. Michaels) - Academy Y1
Niall Comerford(Wing/Blackrock) - Academy Y1
Max O'Reilly(Fullback/St. Gerards) - Academy Y1
2001
Joe McCarthy(Lock/Blackrock) - Academy Y1
Alex Soroka(Backrow/Belvedere) - Academy Y1

bold - capped by ireland.
italic - non leinster player

[LeinsterLeader]

remarkably only 1 player from st. michaels in the academy and 7 from blackrock.

2 from Gerards, 2 from club rugby, 1 from roscrea, 1 from belvedere, 1 from clongowes, 1 exile and 1 from ulster

So MI .......any guys you think Leinster missed out on?

well not really?

Mark Hernan from the 20's is the most notable missing player really and it's assumed he will still be in sub-academy going forward.

Then there is the top players coming out of school, presumably they all are going into sub-academy, so leinster haven't missed out on them.

if anything leinster have given contracts to a few players that are surprises, with younger, possibly more talented players in the sub-academy at the same positions. But then they seem to be putting a premium on doing time in the sub-academy and earning an academy place.

Yeah sounds good. I suppose the risk there is that another province could swoop in and offer them (the younger sub-academy guys I mean) a full academy place (assuming that's permissible of course).

[mildlyinterested]

Yeah sounds good. I suppose the risk there is that another province could swoop in and offer them (the younger sub-academy guys I mean) a full academy place (assuming that's permissible of course).

they could, but leinster can always offer a player a place in the academy if they wanted to prevent said player from being poached.

it's a risk but IMO not a very big one, as most players dream of playing for their home province and will usually wait until rejected by their home province before looking elsewhere.

[hugonaut]

Caelan Doris [1998] capped too, Mildly.

[mildlyinterested]

Caelan Doris [1998] capped too, Mildly.

my bad.

[mildlyinterested]

O'Reilly & Smith combine for try vs England U20: https://twitter.com/IrishRugby/status/1 ... 19105?s=20

[Pilotman123]

remarkably only 1 player from st. michaels in the academy and 7 from blackrock.

2 from Gerards, 2 from club rugby, 1 from roscrea, 1 from belvedere, 1 from clongowes, 1 exile and 1 from ulster

Belvedere have two, Soroka and Hawkshaw

[Dwarf]

remarkably only 1 player from st. michaels in the academy and 7 from blackrock.

2 from Gerards, 2 from club rugby, 1 from roscrea, 1 from belvedere, 1 from clongowes, 1 exile and 1 from ulster

So MI .......any guys you think Leinster missed out on?

well not really?

Mark Hernan from the 20's is the most notable missing player really and it's assumed he will still be in sub-academy going forward.

Then there is the top players coming out of school, presumably they all are going into sub-academy, so leinster haven't missed out on them.

if anything leinster have given contracts to a few players that are surprises, with younger, possibly more talented players in the sub-academy at the same positions. But then they seem to be putting a premium on doing time in the sub-academy and earning an academy place.

Do you have any proof of that or is it just your opinion? Do you think you might be too close in to one group of players to have an impartial view of their abilities?

To my mind the balance looks a lot better this year. McNamara has done well in his first year of selections whereas Smith was a bit lobsided in picking players from michaels.

Am I right in saying McNamara is now Academy selector?

[Pilotman123]

Such a fair point you made about McNamara, I feel like Smith was a bit more biased towards Michael’s players and wasn’t as open minded

[mildlyinterested]

Yeah Smyth did an awful job with his horrible michaels bias.. Ronan Kelleher, Ryan Baird, Harry Byrne, Scott Penny, Jack Dunne really shouldn't have gotten their academy contracts.

[mildlyinterested]

So MI .......any guys you think Leinster missed out on?

well not really?

Mark Hernan from the 20's is the most notable missing player really and it's assumed he will still be in sub-academy going forward.

Then there is the top players coming out of school, presumably they all are going into sub-academy, so leinster haven't missed out on them.

if anything leinster have given contracts to a few players that are surprises, with younger, possibly more talented players in the sub-academy at the same positions. But then they seem to be putting a premium on doing time in the sub-academy and earning an academy place.

Do you have any proof of that or is it just your opinion? Do you think you might be too close in to one group of players to have an impartial view of their abilities?

To my mind the balance looks a lot better this year. McNamara has done well in his first year of selections whereas Smith was a bit lobsided in picking players from michaels.

Am I right in saying McNamara is now Academy selector?

Do I have proof of their talent?

I'm not close to any group of players, so not sure how I might be "too close to have an impartial view"

Yeah all those michaels players who really weren't good enough to be in the academy... whatever happened to them..

[Pilotman123]

Yeah Smyth did an awful job, sure Ronan Kelleher, Ryan Baird, Harry Byrne, Scott Penny, Jack Dunne really shouldn't have gotten their academy contracts.

Scott Penny shouldn’t have got an Academy contract straight from school based on his performances and you know that, he wasn’t even the best 7 in his age group, Michael Mcgagh was by far the better player in cup and Max Kearney should of got a contract ahead of Penny in that year group. Penny didn’t do any near enough to get a contract straight from school

[mildlyinterested]

Yeah Smyth did an awful job, sure Ronan Kelleher, Ryan Baird, Harry Byrne, Scott Penny, Jack Dunne really shouldn't have gotten their academy contracts.

Scott Penny shouldn’t have got an Academy contract straight from school based on his performances and you know that, he wasn’t even the best 7 in his age group, Michael Mcgagh was by far the better player in cup and Max Kearney should of got a contract ahead of Penny in that year group. Penny didn’t do any near enough to get a contract straight from school

no I really don't.. it's frankly laughable to claim Penny shouldn't have gotten a contract given his progress to date, somehow I think Smyth knew better than you.

and whatever about Kearney who was a great schools 7 but didn't have the size to be a pro openside, Micahel McGagh was not near Pennys level.

[Pilotman123]

How come he never performed for St Michael’s then? Every time I watched him I always thought he was an over rated player, he just made a few big hits in each game for Leinster in the interpro’s. Didn’t have a good enough work rate as I’ve seen his stats versus Max Kearney’s who had a by far better work rate in school which is why Penny and his Michael’s team mates got bullied in cup every year. He is a good player but there was no need to rush him into the academy straight from school as Max Kearney was statically the better player and had more success at under age level. I even remember that time Max Kearney boshed Ronan Kelleher in 2016 semi final and boshed Scott Penny in the 2017 quarter final. I know it sounds like I’m being salty and having something against the fella but I don’t he has improved a lot since school but based on his performances I thought Max Kearney should of got that contract instead and Penny should of spent a year in the sub academy to get a contract the following year. Surely you could understand why I have this opinion if you watched schools rugby the past couple of years?

[mildlyinterested]

success and winning the cup at underage level doesn't really come into it, Kearney had a great career for Belvo but Penny was the starting 7 for his leinster u18 side, his ireland u18 side, his leinster u19 side and ireland u19 side while in school.

it's remarkable that Penny hasn't improved much from school, where you claim he wasn't good, now that he is going into his 2nd year on a senior contract with leinster while still 20 years old.

I think you should think about if you are biased towards kearney, perhaps that may be the case given what school you both attended.

Anyway to claim Smyth, an ex-rock coach and player was biased toward michaels players is a stretch, but then when you factor in the success of the vast majority of those michaels players while in the academy and well it's just not a serious statement.

[Pilotman123]

success and winning the cup at underage level doesn't really come into it. FYI Penny was the starting 7 for his leinster u18 side, his ireland u18 side, his leinster u19 side and ireland u19 side while in school.

it's remarkable that he hasn't improved much from school, where you claim he wasn't good, now that he is going into his 2nd year on a senior contract with leinster while still 20 years old.

I think you should think about if you are biased towards kearney, perhaps that may be the case given what school you both attended.

Anyway to claim Smyth, an ex-rock coach and player was biased toward michaels players is a stretch, but then when you factor in the success of the vast majority of those michaels players and well it just doesn't become a serious statement.

I actually went to Blackrock but my cousin and Dad went to Belvo so I’ve always watched their games, in fact I watch most schools cup games, are you telling me you really think Scott Penny was the better player than Kearney in school? Be honest and besides I never said Penny didn’t improve since school I said he improved a lot since school, I just think back then based on his performances do you not think it was a bit too much giving Penny a contract straight from school? When I mean success I mean starting Ireland u19 and Leinster u19 etc which Max Kearney has captained. How does playing a crucial part of two winning cup sides and being statistically better than your opposing player have nothing to do with it? Because even Michael Mcgagh was a better player in school but was never gonna make it due to his on going injuries which is why he never played Leinster underage.

[LeRouxIsPHat]

Loathe as I am to jump in on Mildy's behalf I feel like I have to point out that Dwarf is clearly one of Pilotman's alts.

[Pilotman123]

Look forget the Mcgagh bit that’s not the point but how does being a crucial player in two winning cup sides and being better than your opposing player, captaining Leinster u19 and starting Ireland u19 have nothing to do with academy selections?