Leinster Academy 2021-22

[mildlyinterested]

Unsurprisingly Jackman sounded off on Berti Newman and how the leinster academy is working at the moment on the42 rugby weekly podcast, starts at 43mins in: https://twitter.com/GavanCasey/status/1 ... 73634?s=20

Lots of valid points there about how the system works at the moment and how big a loss Newman is.

What age is he?

U19, so turns 18 this year.

[the spoofer]

Unsurprisingly Jackman sounded off on Berti Newman and how the leinster academy is working at the moment on the42 rugby weekly podcast, starts at 43mins in: https://twitter.com/GavanCasey/status/1 ... 73634?s=20

Lots of valid points there about how the system works at the moment and how big a loss Newman is.

What age is he?

U19, so turns 18 this year.

Bit early to be declaring him a big loss, no?

[mildlyinterested]

What age is he?

U19, so turns 18 this year.

Bit early to be declaring him a big loss, no?

Why?

Losing one of the most talented underage players in the province is a big loss for the leinster academy, Jackman expands well and I agree with him, though I do think he is overhyping a bit in regards to him the best schools player in 20 years.

The system works pretty good, but if you aren't from south dublin and can't afford to train for free in the sub-academy then it becomes pretty hard to make it in the province.

[mildlyinterested]

Leinster Rugby Development XV vs. Munster Rugby Development XV

15. Aitzol Arenzana-King(u20)
14. Fionn Gibbons(u20)
13. Ben Brownlee(u20)
12. Daniel Hawkshaw(u20)
11. Callam O’Reilly(u20)
10. David Hawkshaw
9. Cormac Foley
1. Ben Popplewell(u20)
2. John McKee (CAPTAIN)
3. Vakh Abdalaze
4. Fionn McWey(u20)
5. Conor O’Tighearnaigh(u20)
6. Brian Deeny
7. Martin Moloney
8. Luke Callinan(u20)

Replacements:
16. Howard Noonan(u20)
17. Oisin Michel(u20)
18. Rory McGuire(u20)
19. Ruairi Clarke(u20)
20. Stephen Woods(u20)
21. Diarmuid Mangan(u19)
22. Seanan Devereux(u20)
23. Sam Prendergast(u19)
24. Conor Gibney(u20)
25. JJ Hession(u20) - TH Prop
26. Barry Gray(u20) - Hooker
27. Michael Molony(u20) - Scrumhalf
28. Scott Milne(u20) - Wing

[the spoofer]

U19, so turns 18 this year.

Bit early to be declaring him a big loss, no?

Why?

Losing one of the most talented underage players in the province is a big loss for the leinster academy, Jackman expands well and I agree with him, though I do think he is overhyping a bit in regards to him the best schools player in 20 years.

The system works pretty good, but if you aren't from south dublin and can't afford to train for free in the sub-academy then it becomes pretty hard to make it in the province.

Completely over egging the pudding there. How many times have you seen him play?

As for the sub academy gig, if you have the potential to make the academy then there are lots of clubs that will look after you and allow you progress to academy. Lads get accommodation, jobs and college sorted. It's effectively a scholarship for your sub academy year.

[mildlyinterested]

Bit early to be declaring him a big loss, no?

Why?

Losing one of the most talented underage players in the province is a big loss for the leinster academy, Jackman expands well and I agree with him, though I do think he is overhyping a bit in regards to him the best schools player in 20 years.

The system works pretty good, but if you aren't from south dublin and can't afford to train for free in the sub-academy then it becomes pretty hard to make it in the province.

Completely over egging the pudding there. How many times have you seen him play?

As for the sub academy gig, if you have the potential to make the academy then there are lots of clubs that will look after you and allow you progress to academy. Lads get accommodation, jobs and college sorted. It's effectively a scholarship for your sub academy year.

How many games has he missed due to covid? I've seen him play a handful of times and the most recent game against St. Michaels he was the best player on the field as a 5th year. I've no doubt his profile would be higher if he hadn't missed the SCT final plus another year of SCT rugby and intl u18 rubgy. He got a 3 year deal from Bristol straight out of school, he is an excellent prospect and certainly one the best talents that was in the province, or at least was.

Listen to the podcast, Jackman makes alot of valid points about how the leinster academy system works and how its biased towards players who can afford to spend a year or two in the sub-academy not getting paid. There a big difference between getting paid and clubs looking after you with a house and a part time job.

[the spoofer]

Why?

Losing one of the most talented underage players in the province is a big loss for the leinster academy, Jackman expands well and I agree with him, though I do think he is overhyping a bit in regards to him the best schools player in 20 years.

The system works pretty good, but if you aren't from south dublin and can't afford to train for free in the sub-academy then it becomes pretty hard to make it in the province.

Completely over egging the pudding there. How many times have you seen him play?

As for the sub academy gig, if you have the potential to make the academy then there are lots of clubs that will look after you and allow you progress to academy. Lads get accommodation, jobs and college sorted. It's effectively a scholarship for your sub academy year.

How many games has he missed due to covid? I've seen him play a handful of times and the most recent game against St. Michaels he was the best player on the field as a 5th year. I've no doubt his profile would be higher if he hadn't missed the SCT final plus another year of SCT rugby and intl u18 rubgy. He got a 3 year deal from Bristol, he is an excellent prospect and certainly one the best talents that was in the province, or at least was.

Listen to the podcast, Jackman makes alot of valid points about how the leinster academy system works and how its biased towards players who can afford to spend a year or two in the sub-academy not getting paid. There a big difference between getting paid and clubs looking after you.

I've seen him around as many times, I've an interest as an ex Newbridge lad. He was decent against Michaels but that was cause he had a superbly well drilled team around him. You are making huge assumptions based on very little evidence, always a dangerous thing.

As for the academy, I have lots of issues with it but it has a proven track record that is second to none in Europe. There will always be those who are missed but I think that you wrong in suggesting that sub academy lads be paid. Those funds will have to come from somewhere and I'd prefer to see the funds spent on extending the pathways for lads to get to the sub academy.

[mildlyinterested]

Completely over egging the pudding there. How many times have you seen him play?

As for the sub academy gig, if you have the potential to make the academy then there are lots of clubs that will look after you and allow you progress to academy. Lads get accommodation, jobs and college sorted. It's effectively a scholarship for your sub academy year.

How many games has he missed due to covid? I've seen him play a handful of times and the most recent game against St. Michaels he was the best player on the field as a 5th year. I've no doubt his profile would be higher if he hadn't missed the SCT final plus another year of SCT rugby and intl u18 rubgy. He got a 3 year deal from Bristol, he is an excellent prospect and certainly one the best talents that was in the province, or at least was.

Listen to the podcast, Jackman makes alot of valid points about how the leinster academy system works and how its biased towards players who can afford to spend a year or two in the sub-academy not getting paid. There a big difference between getting paid and clubs looking after you.

I've seen him around as many times, I've an interest as an ex Newbridge lad. He was decent against Michaels but that was cause he had a superbly well drilled team around him. You are making huge assumptions based on very little evidence, always a dangerous thing.

As for the academy, I have lots of issues with it but it has a proven track record that is second to none in Europe. There will always be those who are missed but I think that you wrong in suggesting that sub academy lads be paid. Those funds will have to come from somewhere and I'd prefer to see the funds spent on extending the pathways for lads to get to the sub academy.

fair enough we will see how it plays out over the next few years, but he was far better than decent in that game.

and I don't think all sub-academy players should be paid, but If leinster are going to insist on all players doing some time in the sub-academy then in order to keep some of the top talents who may not come from south dublin, something will need to be done, otherwise leinster risk losing more players like Karl Martin and Lucas Berti Newman.

[Lock9541]

Newman is in his final year of school isn’t he?

[mildlyinterested]

Newman is in his final year of school isn’t he?

No he skipped TY and finished this summer.

He has signed a 3 year contract with Bristol.

[ronk]

There's scope to offer contracts/academy straight out of school. But it's limited. There'll always be cases where foreign clubs want someone more, or a players head is easily turned.

The track record for poaching players out of school is middling at best. Newbridge relatively strong in that area.

Of course Ireland's record with Exiles hasn't been great for a while. U20s with the talent seem to end up choosing white.

[mildlyinterested]

There's scope to offer contracts/academy straight out of school. But it's limited. There'll always be cases where foreign clubs want someone more, or a players head is easily turned.

The track record for poaching players out of school is middling at best. Newbridge relatively strong in that area.

Of course Ireland's record with Exiles hasn't been great for a while. U20s with the talent seem to end up choosing white.

in the previous 10 years there hasn't been two players poached at 18 from the leinster sub-academy, this year the two best centre prospects outside the academy have been signed to 3 year contracts abroad.. hopefully it's not the beginning of a trend.

big game tomorrow for the development side who got thrashed last week and have lost all three games to date.

no sign of a replacement for Noel McNamara either.

[ChrisUppy]

I think it's fair to say Leinster should only offer senior contracts to players ready regularly feature for the first team, whether they're straight out of school, done a full academy stint, whatever. Additionally, they can only offer one year academy deals.

From the little I'd seen of the guy, he seemed a way off physically from senior rugby. A 3 year contract is just not something Leinster can compete with in this case imo...

[mildlyinterested]

I think it's fair to say Leinster should only offer senior contracts to players ready regularly feature for the first team, whether they're straight out of school, done a full academy stint, whatever. Additionally, they can only offer one year academy deals.

From the little I'd seen of the guy, he seemed a way off physically from senior rugby. A 3 year contract is just not something Leinster can compete with in this case imo...

its a 3 year academy contract from bristol.. all leinster had to do was offer him a leinster academy contract, which is worth 8k a year at the moment due to covid cutbacks.

But leinster require players to do time in the sub-academy before bumping them up, due to financial reasons this wasn't an option for this player.

[ChrisUppy]

A three year contract is still more attractive though... maybe has a higher salary also

[mildlyinterested]

A three year contract is still more attractive though

a leinster academy offer comes with the understanding that the player will get 3 years in the academy..

LBN wanted to play for leinster but there was no offer forthcoming for whatever reason, maybe the lack of an academy manager was an issue.

either way leinster have lost two of their top underage prospects in the last few months, even worse they play the same position.

[ChrisUppy]

Written commitments always trump understandings

[ChrisUppy]

From what I can find online premiership academy salaries can range from £8k to £20k. Verbal contracts (understandings) aren't worth the paper they're written on.

The only thing Leinster could offer to compete would be a multi-year development deal (do those even exist?) or senior contract, and I personally don't think he's at that stage of his development. If he wants to play for Leinster (and if Leinster want him) he will have an opportunity to negotiate a senior contract in three years time.

[the spoofer]

From what I can find online premiership academy salaries can range from £8k to £20k. Verbal contracts (understandings) aren't worth the paper they're written on.

The only thing Leinster could offer to compete would be a multi-year development deal (do those even exist?) or senior contract, and I personally don't think he's at that stage of his development. If he wants to play for Leinster (and if Leinster want him) he will have an opportunity to negotiate a senior contract in three years time.

Perhaps he doesn't wish to play for Leinster/Ireland? His brother played 7's for Chile last weekend.

[mildlyinterested]

From what I can find online premiership academy salaries can range from £8k to £20k. Verbal contracts (understandings) aren't worth the paper they're written on.

The only thing Leinster could offer to compete would be a multi-year development deal (do those even exist?) or senior contract, and I personally don't think he's at that stage of his development. If he wants to play for Leinster (and if Leinster want him) he will have an opportunity to negotiate a senior contract in three years time.

Perhaps he doesn't wish to play for Leinster/Ireland? His brother played 7's for Chile last weekend.

Jackman and Brendan Fanning said he wanted to stay at leinster but couldnt turn down a contract when he had nothing coming from leinster.