mildlyinterested wrote: ↑July 14th, 2020, 8:08 pm
success and winning the cup at underage level doesn't really come into it. FYI Penny was the starting 7 for his leinster u18 side, his ireland u18 side, his leinster u19 side and ireland u19 side while in school.
it's remarkable that he hasn't improved much from school, where you claim he wasn't good, now that he is going into his 2nd year on a senior contract with leinster while still 20 years old.
I think you should think about if you are biased towards kearney, perhaps that may be the case given what school you both attended.
Anyway to claim Smyth, an ex-rock coach and player was biased toward michaels players is a stretch, but then when you factor in the success of the vast majority of those michaels players and well it just doesn't become a serious statement.
I actually went to Blackrock but my cousin and Dad went to Belvo so I’ve always watched their games, in fact I watch most schools cup games, are you telling me you really think Scott Penny was the better player than Kearney in school? Be honest and besides I never said Penny didn’t improve since school I said he improved a lot since school, I just think back then based on his performances do you not think it was a bit too much giving Penny a contract straight from school? When I mean success I mean starting Ireland u19 and Leinster u19 etc which Max Kearney has captained. How does playing a crucial part of two winning cup sides and being statistically better than your opposing player have nothing to do with it? Because even Michael Mcgagh was a better player in school but was never gonna make it due to his on going injuries which is why he never played Leinster underage.
No i didn't think it was a bit much.. as said penny was a standout player in his age group, starting at 7 for both leinster and ireland as a u18 and u19. Just because he lost in the cup didn't mean he was a bad player or unworthy of an academy place. I stated already why I thought Kearney failed to translate his excellent schools career to a higher level, he is smaller and lighter than Penny.
I do remember being surprised Kearney didn't get called up for ireland u18 until injury and also being surprised he never got a chance for ireland u20. But at 5'10, 90kg... well it wasn't that surprising really.
anyway enough about the merits of Scott Pennys academy place..
He was never proven wrong at any level he played though,just thought it was a bit unfair he never got a chance because he was the best 7 I’ve seen play in the cup for a very long time and certainly better than Scott Penny at schools level, it’s just disappointing they never even gave Kearney a chance in a 6 nations u20 game, he played well in the friendly games I even remember him scoring a try
Mark Hernan from the 20's is the most notable missing player really and it's assumed he will still be in sub-academy going forward.
Then there is the top players coming out of school, presumably they all are going into sub-academy, so leinster haven't missed out on them.
if anything leinster have given contracts to a few players that are surprises, with younger, possibly more talented players in the sub-academy at the same positions. But then they seem to be putting a premium on doing time in the sub-academy and earning an academy place.
Do you have any proof of that or is it just your opinion? Do you think you might be too close in to one group of players to have an impartial view of their abilities?
To my mind the balance looks a lot better this year. McNamara has done well in his first year of selections whereas Smith was a bit lobsided in picking players from michaels.
Am I right in saying McNamara is now Academy selector?
Do I have proof of their talent?
I'm not close to any group of players, so not sure how I might be "too close to have an impartial view"
Yeah all those michaels players who really weren't good enough to be in the academy... whatever happened to them..
First of all I’m very appreciative of all the time you put in to keeping people on here informed of all the prospects in the game in the province. It’s no easy feat to come one and express views on who might be the best players and pin your flag to the mast so to speak. I do however think you are slightly caught up and invested in certain players progressing.
Selecting 2 Michaels players as direct picks for the academy straight from school is biased. Having 4 in sub academy is a bit much considering teams who won the cup in the past ten years get on average 1 or 2 players tops through the system. Why not have 4 Clongowes or 4 Newbridge players in your selections considering they were finalists this year? I will hand it to you you called Michaels beating belvo in the semi last year and winning the cup and you were right. This year however you hyped them up to be unstoppable and they lost.
Do you see how your views might be considered as you hoping Michaels win as opposed to it being probable they might win? You seem to back one group of players consistently from one school over others and that can be viewed as you being invested in that school.
Success in the cup is the not the same thing as producing players capable of playing professional rugby. They are correlated but not the same thing. Blackrock seems to be better at winning cups than Michael's (possibly due to better overall squad strength) but Michael's seem to be better at producing superb individual players (who might be part of Michael's squads that are overall weaker than their Belvedere/Blackrock competitors).
"This is breathless stuff.....it's on again. Contepomi out to Hickie,D'Arcy,Hickie.......................HICKIE FOR THE CORNER! THAT IS AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
neiliog93 wrote: ↑July 14th, 2020, 9:43 pm
Success in the cup is the not the same thing as producing players capable of playing professional rugby. They are correlated but not the same thing. Blackrock seems to be better at winning cups than Michael's (possibly due to better overall squad strength) but Michael's seem to be better at producing superb individual players (who might be part of Michael's squads that are overall weaker than their Belvedere/Blackrock competitors).
That’s not necessarily true, Blackrock have more professional rugby players in Ireland so as a whole Blackrock are the better school in terms of producing more professional players and winning more cups of course, Blackrock even have players in the academy than Michael’s so do Belvo.
Dwarf wrote: ↑July 14th, 2020, 9:29 pm
First of all I’m very appreciative of all the time you put in to keeping people on here informed of all the prospects in the game in the province. It’s no easy feat to come one and express views on who might be the best players and pin your flag to the mast so to speak. I do however think you are slightly caught up and invested in certain players progressing.
Selecting 2 Michaels players as direct picks for the academy straight from school is biased. Having 4 in sub academy is a bit much considering teams who won the cup in the past ten years get on average 1 or 2 players tops through the system. Why not have 4 Clongowes or 4 Newbridge players in your selections considering they were finalists this year? I will hand it to you you called Michaels beating belvo in the semi last year and winning the cup and you were right. This year however you hyped them up to be unstoppable and they lost.
Do you see how your views might be considered as you hoping Michaels win as opposed to it being probable they might win? You seem to back one group of players consistently from one school over others and that can be viewed as you being invested in that school.
Really only seeing a different poster as the biased one with an agenda.
Do you have any proof of that or is it just your opinion? Do you think you might be too close in to one group of players to have an impartial view of their abilities?
To my mind the balance looks a lot better this year. McNamara has done well in his first year of selections whereas Smith was a bit lobsided in picking players from michaels.
Am I right in saying McNamara is now Academy selector?
Do I have proof of their talent?
I'm not close to any group of players, so not sure how I might be "too close to have an impartial view"
Yeah all those michaels players who really weren't good enough to be in the academy... whatever happened to them..
First of all I’m very appreciative of all the time you put in to keeping people on here informed of all the prospects in the game in the province. It’s no easy feat to come one and express views on who might be the best players and pin your flag to the mast so to speak. I do however think you are slightly caught up and invested in certain players progressing.
Selecting 2 Michaels players as direct picks for the academy straight from school is biased. Having 4 in sub academy is a bit much considering teams who won the cup in the past ten years get on average 1 or 2 players tops through the system. Why not have 4 Clongowes or 4 Newbridge players in your selections considering they were finalists this year? I will hand it to you you called Michaels beating belvo in the semi last year and winning the cup and you were right. This year however you hyped them up to be unstoppable and they lost.
Do you see how your views might be considered as you hoping Michaels win as opposed to it being probable they might win? You seem to back one group of players consistently from one school over others and that can be viewed as you being invested in that school.
bringing Ryan Baird and Scott Penny into the academy straight from school had nothing to do with a michaels bias from Peter Smyth
having 4 players in the sub-academy from the same school happens quite often as the sub-academy is often 25+ players.. again nothing to do with bias.
Just because a team was a finalist in the cup doesn't mean it has a lot of academy talent in it. saying that newbridge look like they could have several academy level players from their team once they all finish school, Clongowes not as many obvious candidates for the leinster academy, although a few will get looked at this summer.
Prop
Hugo O'Malley(Blackrock)
Aaron Rowan(Athy RFC-Blackrock)
Ben Griffin(Castleknock)
Sam Illo(Wesley/Old Wesley)
Jack Boyle(St. Michaels) - u19
Ben Popplewell(Wexford RFC) - u19
Hooker
Lee Barron(St. Michaels)
Ronan Loughnane(Roscrea/UCD)
Levi Vaughan(Terenure/Terenure)
Callum Dowling(Clongowes)
Barry Gray(Carlow RFC) - u19
Lock
Paul Deeny(Wexford RFC) - u19
Ruairi Clarke(Cill Dara RFC) - u19
Mark Morrissey(Blackrock) - u19
Sean Walsh(Seapoints RFC) - u19
Backrow
Will Hickey(St. Michaels)
Aaron Coleman(Belvedere/DUFC)
Jack Barry(Gonzaga/Lansdowne)
Mark Boyle(Gorey RFC/Lansdowne)
Conor Duffy(Tullow RFC) - u19
Scrumhalf
Ben Murphy(Pres Bray/Clontarf)
Rob Gilsenan(St. Michaels/UCD)
Will Reilly(/Portlaoise RFC/MU Barnhall)
Outhalf
Tim Corkery(Kilkenny RFC/UCD)
Charlie Tector(Kilkenny) - u19
Centre
Marcus Kiely(Newbridge)
Simon O'Kelly(St. Michaels)
Karl Martin(Boyne RFC/Old Belvedere) - u19
Back Three
Chris Cosgrave(St. Michaels)
Jamie Osborne(Naas RFC)
Josh O'Connor(Wexford RFC/UCD)
Shane Mallon(Longford RFC-Roscrea) - u19
Jack Hanlon(Tullow RFC) - u19
Last edited by mildlyinterested on July 22nd, 2020, 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
MadiganSquareGarden wrote: ↑July 17th, 2020, 12:18 am
Does anyone else want Mark Hernan to join Munster just so that we can see the headline HERNAN MUNSTER?
MadiganSquareGarden wrote: ↑July 17th, 2020, 12:18 am
Does anyone else want Mark Hernan to join Munster just so that we can see the headline HERNAN MUNSTER?
MadiganSquareGarden wrote: ↑July 17th, 2020, 12:18 am
Does anyone else want Mark Hernan to join Munster just so that we can see the headline HERNAN MUNSTER?
*** Edited by mod ***
Mildly is from Wexford, as far as I know. I don't think his opinions on Michael's players are informed by anything other than his knowledge of the rate of success they have had in producing players who have successfully transitioned from excellent schools players through the academy to the pro game.
MadiganSquareGarden wrote: ↑July 17th, 2020, 12:18 am
Does anyone else want Mark Hernan to join Munster just so that we can see the headline HERNAN MUNSTER?
Either that or to see Mildly have a breakdown because one of his own wasn’t deemed Leinster material. Cue absolute denial from Mildly that he wouldn’t be heartbroken.
*** Edited by mod ***
Last edited by mildlyinterested on July 18th, 2020, 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
MadiganSquareGarden wrote: ↑July 17th, 2020, 12:18 am
Does anyone else want Mark Hernan to join Munster just so that we can see the headline HERNAN MUNSTER?
