Does the leinster backline lack passers/distributors outside 10?

[mildlyinterested]

Possible Leinster outside back depth chart for next season:

11. James Lowe(28)/Cian Kelleher(26)
12. Robbie Henshaw(27)/Conor O'Brien(24)
13. Garry Ringrose(25)/Rory O'Loughlin(26)
14. Dave Kearney(31)/Adam Byrne(26)
15. Jordan Larmour(23)/Hugo Keenan(24)

No notable passers/distributors bar Ringrose who is improving at that aspect.. Do you think this could be an issue for leinster at the highest level?

[wixfjord]

Interested to see how JOB slots in in this regard.
He's a brilliant passer.

Could be a useful 23 for us.

Lack of kicking options outside 10 is another related issue, particularly with 50/22 coming in potentially.

[mildlyinterested]

Agree on JOB but can't see him breaking through at 13 and faces uphill battle at 15.

[Peg Leg]

I believe Noel Reid is at a loose end.

[Workhorse]

The whole desperation from some corners to squeeze a "second distributor" into back lines is a bit odd. And I think what makes a distributor is way off at times too. A distributor just needs to have a good pass and decision making and the system does the rest for them really, there's no reason at all why Henshaw or Larmour with time or even a forward couldn't fill in that position in games when needed

[ronk]

We also haven't lost a noted passer like that since Carbery but we've been okay at using space. The ball doesn't exactly die with Henshaw.

Wingers pass ok. Larmour is getting better at choosing when to do it. We tend to use different people as a 2nd playmaker rather than having a nominated one. We also rely on Ringrose.

In terms of the way that good outhalves are great at attacking the line, making reads and spreading when it's on while holding the defence; I definitely see the value on an alternative playmaker. There's an equal threat on both sides when in the middle of the park and the blitz/drift dynamic it tougher to defence when there are pull backs behind screen runners. Another advantage is you spread the late hits if you are taking on the ball right at the gainline.

[mildlyinterested]

We also haven't lost a noted passer like that since Carbery but we've been okay at using space. The ball doesn't exactly die with Henshaw.

Wingers pass ok. Larmour is getting better at choosing when to do it. We tend to use different people as a 2nd playmaker rather than having a nominated one. We also rely on Ringrose.

In terms of the way that good outhalves are great at attacking the line, making reads and spreading when it's on while holding the defence; I definitely see the value on an alternative playmaker. There's an equal threat on both sides when in the middle of the park and the blitz/drift dynamic it tougher to defence when there are pull backs behind screen runners. Another advantage is you spread the late hits if you are taking on the ball right at the gainline.

Yeah we do okay... Ringrose is the best passer of the 1st choice backline and for a pro back he isn't anything special when it comes to passing, distribution, vision. He is improving but it's still very much a work in progress.

Henshaw i'd rate average as a passer/distributor for his position, same with Larmour.

[hugonaut]

We also haven't lost a noted passer like that since Carbery but we've been okay at using space. The ball doesn't exactly die with Henshaw.

Wingers pass ok. Larmour is getting better at choosing when to do it. We tend to use different people as a 2nd playmaker rather than having a nominated one. We also rely on Ringrose.

In terms of the way that good outhalves are great at attacking the line, making reads and spreading when it's on while holding the defence; I definitely see the value on an alternative playmaker. There's an equal threat on both sides when in the middle of the park and the blitz/drift dynamic it tougher to defence when there are pull backs behind screen runners. Another advantage is you spread the late hits if you are taking on the ball right at the gainline.

Yeah we do okay... Ringrose is the best passer of the 1st choice backline and for a pro back he isn't anything special when it comes to passing, distribution, vision. He is improving but it's still very much a work in progress.

Henshaw i'd rate average as a passer/distributor for his position, same with Larmour.

Have to say that I think Henshaw's passing is really reasonable. I think it's underrated. He's not Quade Cooper, but he can throw good long passes at pace.

[mildlyinterested]

We also haven't lost a noted passer like that since Carbery but we've been okay at using space. The ball doesn't exactly die with Henshaw.

Wingers pass ok. Larmour is getting better at choosing when to do it. We tend to use different people as a 2nd playmaker rather than having a nominated one. We also rely on Ringrose.

In terms of the way that good outhalves are great at attacking the line, making reads and spreading when it's on while holding the defence; I definitely see the value on an alternative playmaker. There's an equal threat on both sides when in the middle of the park and the blitz/drift dynamic it tougher to defence when there are pull backs behind screen runners. Another advantage is you spread the late hits if you are taking on the ball right at the gainline.

Yeah we do okay... Ringrose is the best passer of the 1st choice backline and for a pro back he isn't anything special when it comes to passing, distribution, vision. He is improving but it's still very much a work in progress.

Henshaw i'd rate average as a passer/distributor for his position, same with Larmour.

Have to say that I think Henshaw's passing is really reasonable. I think it's underrated. He's not Quade Cooper, but he can throw good long passes at pace.

For a 12 shouldn't that be expected at the highest level?

Henshaw obviously is a very good player but a noted passer/distributor.. I wouldn't say so.

[wixfjord]

I think it's important to make the distinction between a distributor (in the Giteau or indeed Noel Reid mode!) and a playmaker.

Lowe, Ringrose, Larmour are all absolutely playmakers. They make things happen and create space for others. Some of Larmour's work in the Northampton games in this regard was brilliant.
He's not a brilliant passer, but he has improved in terms of how he uses other players and uses space. The incident where their 15 got the yellow card for pulling back Lowe is a good example.

[mildlyinterested]

Well i think it's pretty clear i've been talking about distributors/passers in the backline outside 10.

[Workhorse]

The whole second "distributor" thing has become a bit of a line people throw out without really knowing what it means, or if they do why teams might employ one. The reality is though 95% of the time a "second distributor" essentially just means running the play off someone other than 10 and the vast vast majority of them just require players to be able to pick the right pass and do it accurately. You don't really need someone that has an out halfs skill set to fill the role most of the time they just need to be a good passer and good decision making without making it obvious and for Leinster we tend to use a system that essentially means anyone can fill that role and that's far far more advantageous because it means the opposition really can't read it because if you know there's two "distributors" on the team then you set up off them and if they're not there you know nothing fancy is happening, if it could be anyone we'll then you haven't a clue what's coming at any time.

Also running stuff mostly off 10 doesn't meant they're the only "distributor" but to be honest that'll take a lot of typing that I really can't be arsed doing to explain why

[wixfjord]

Well i think it's pretty clear i've been talking about distributors/passers in the backline outside 10.

Oh crystal clear GG

But the point is, we actually a few 'playmakers' in our first choice backline (and indeed forwards who can do that too), so we might not actually need a 'distributor'. We've been dealing plenty well with using Larmour, Lowe, Ringrose and the likes of Doris, Conan, Leavy, Ryan, Toner even big Tadhg doing the role at times.

I think it makes uus more of an all court side which is a benefit.

In any case, that 'distributor' doesn't really exist to pick at the moment, unless we're going to go with Frawley at 12/15 or bring back Reid, so it's sort of a moot point.

[mildlyinterested]

Think we quite clearly needed a better passers in the backline last season against Saracens and that the passing level of the outside backs while good isn't anything notable for the highest level.

[wixfjord]

Think we quite clearly needed a better passers in the backline last season against Saracens and that the passing level of the outside backs while good isn't anything notable for the highest level.

Did we? Or are you just overfocusing on one really poor example of Ringrose messing up an overlap?
Does one game warrant us making a big change to the attack structure and presumably changing the first choice backline?

Out of interest, what would be your solution to getting better passers into the backline?

Personally I think it's sort of a moot point at the moment if we don't have the players to do it, and I don't think we've suffered from it either to be honest.

[mildlyinterested]

Think we quite clearly needed a better passers in the backline last season against Saracens and that the passing level of the outside backs while good isn't anything notable for the highest level.

Did we? Or are you just overfocusing on one really poor example of Ringrose messing up an overlap?
Does one game warrant us making a big change to the attack structure and presumably changing the first choice backline?

Out of interest, what would be your solution to getting better passers into the backline?

Personally I think it's sort of a moot point at the moment if we don't have the players to do it, and I don't think we've suffered from it either to be honest.

I would say Ringrose's non-pass was an excellent example of the need for better passers in the backline, not a poor one.

Did I say that there should be a big change to the attack structure or that the 1st choice backline should be changed? No.

I'd like to see Jimmy O'Brien more at 15, of course this won't happen in europe anytime soon but it would be interesting to see. That and hoping that Ringrose continues to improve his passing/distribution.

It's nitpicking of course but thought it was an interesting thing to examine, while we wait for some rugby to be played.

[wixfjord]

I would say Ringrose's non-pass was an excellent example of the need for better passers in the backline, not a poor one.

Did I say that there should be a big change to the attack structure or that the 1st choice backline should be changed? No.

I'd like to see Jimmy O'Brien more at 15, of course this won't happen in europe anytime soon but it would be interesting to see. That and hoping that Ringrose continues to improve his passing/distribution.

It's nitpicking of course but thought it was an interesting thing to examine, while we wait for some rugby to be played.

Would you? I mean he didn't even attempt the pass, which would indicate it was a decision making error rather than an indication of lacking skillset right?

I'm not sure why you get so defensive when some disagrees with you on these threads or asks you for your opinion! It's an interesting topic so just seeing what you thought.

I agree on JOB btw, he's a brilliant pass on him.