Wing going forward

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ronk
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Re: Wing going forward

Post by ronk »

ROL doesn’t need to pass those guys to play for Ireland. There are other players and he needs to focus on playing well.

Of Ireland’s first 4 centres, only Ringrose can play wing. Of Ireland’s first 4 wingers only Earls can play centre (break glass at this point). But that doesn’t help ROL if Farrell goes for a specialist or brings versatility from fullback and/or out half.

Either way he needs to establish form first.

There will be 4 (5 if Kearney) outside backs with Ireland squad. ROL is going to be looked to for the experience and leadership we’ll need. Leinster lost a full outside back line this year, most of it highly experienced. That will be felt and ROL is a guy who can step up.

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Flash Gordon
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Re: Wing going forward

Post by Flash Gordon »

Workhorse wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 1:13 am
Morf wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 11:34 pm
It's probably more telling to look at the results of sevens in terms of value provided to 15s.

The more professional it's gotten the further it has moved to it's own very specific athletic demands and less focus on 15s skills and requirements. 7s isn't a way to deliberately up-skill a player for 15s rather to do something quite separate and hope it improves them for 15s.
As I said it's more for people with a better knowledge of the skills a player needs to work on and a better idea of how to go about that to decide whether or not 7s is a good place to develop those skills than posters on a forum who are more often wrong than right and if they are right it's probably by accident (and yes I include myself in that).

7s can certainly be a way to upskill a player in certain areas but if those are the right areas and the right way to do it none of us know.
I think you might be missing the point of message boards. None of us a professional coach but we all like to talk rugby. I tend to agree with some of the comments above. When i played, 7's was handy for building fitness and ball handling skills but it's become a separate entity with it's own skillsets and even required physical attributes.
Flash ahhhh ahhh, he'll save every one of us

mildlyinterested
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Re: Wing going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

AB out for the foreseeable again.

TOB looks like he put on some size during lockdown:

Image

Workhorse
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Re: Wing going forward

Post by Workhorse »

Flash Gordon wrote:
August 5th, 2020, 9:36 am
I think you might be missing the point of message boards. None of us a professional coach but we all like to talk rugby. I tend to agree with some of the comments above. When i played, 7's was handy for building fitness and ball handling skills but it's become a separate entity with it's own skillsets and even required physical attributes.
I get that and I acknowledged it. My reply was to a poster making a definitive statement to shoot down someone else's opinion as if their opinion somehow carried more weight. That was my point.

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Re: Wing going forward

Post by joooooe »

I wasn't sure where to put this so here seemed appropriate.

The BBC (https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/53720537) is reporting a change to the 3 year residency rules to extend the 3 year residency for another year.

They don't explain why but they throw the following in at the end of the article I linked to above:

"Meanwhile, Leinster wing James Lowe is now eligible for Ireland after joining the Dublin province from his native New Zealand in 2017."

Does this mean he qualifies immediately or does he still have to wait until November? I presume the latter, and that auntie is confused. They certainly seem to be geographically confused ("the Dublin province") :roll: .

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Re: Wing going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

joooooe wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 7:48 am
I wasn't sure where to put this so here seemed appropriate.

The BBC (https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/53720537) is reporting a change to the 3 year residency rules to extend the 3 year residency for another year.

They don't explain why but they throw the following in at the end of the article I linked to above:

"Meanwhile, Leinster wing James Lowe is now eligible for Ireland after joining the Dublin province from his native New Zealand in 2017."

Does this mean he qualifies immediately or does he still have to wait until November? I presume the latter, and that auntie is confused. They certainly seem to be geographically confused ("the Dublin province") :roll: .
November.

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johng
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Re: Wing going forward

Post by johng »

No one in the Irish system to take advantage afaik. Lowe, Butler and Cloete all qualify this year.

Al 4 of Ulster's are NIE and both of Munster's. Fardy for us. Porch for Connacht

Fainga'a would have been ok for connacht but he's gone. No one else in the system bar possibly a new signing or 2 for connacht and they will be 2025 if they make it

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hugonaut
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Re: Wing going forward

Post by hugonaut »

johng wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 2:44 pm
No one in the Irish system to take advantage afaik. Lowe, Butler and Cloete all qualify this year.

Al 4 of Ulster's are NIE and both of Munster's. Fardy for us. Porch for Connacht

Fainga'a would have been ok for connacht but he's gone. No one else in the system bar possibly a new signing or 2 for connacht and they will be 2025 if they make it
Is that really the extent of NIE players in the country? Eight across four provinces?

On a macro level, that is absolutely outstanding. For about twelve or thirteen years I had pegged three per province as the minimum on a season-by-season basis - 5+1/province for the first three year period, then 4+1 for the next three year period, then 3+1, then 3. I thought the provincial execs would go bananas if they weren't allowed at least three NIE players.

Obviously the virtual abolition of the project player system has had an impact, but if you are taking squads as 45-strong, that's 8 in 180 players – under 5% ineligible to play for Ireland in the pro system. A really good outcome.

I never foresaw the extent that Leinster would be contributors to other province's playing squads, in fairness [with the exception of Connacht].

mildlyinterested
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Re: Wing going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

U21
Max O'Reilly(St. Gerards/DUFC)
Andrew Smith(St. Michaels/Clontarf)
Niall Comerford(Blackrock/UCD)
U20
Josh O'Connor(Wexford RFC/UCD)
Chris Cosgrave(St. Michaels)
Jamie Osborne(Naas RFC)
U19
Shane Mallon(Longford RFC-CC Roscrea)
Aitzol King(Balbriggan RFC-CUS)
Jack Hanlon(Tullow RFC)

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johng
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Re: Wing going forward

Post by johng »

hugonaut wrote:
August 12th, 2020, 8:26 am
Is that really the extent of NIE players in the country? Eight across four provinces?
Pretty much

Ulster
mathewson
Faddes
Cotzee
Carter

Munster
Snyman
De Alende

Leinster
Fardy

Connacht
Porch

All NIE (Rather than NIQ)

The 2 new signings for Connacht are
Ben O'Donnell (Australian 7s player. Not sure if that makes him NIE)
Abraham Papali'i A 27 year old ex league player from NZ (of Samoan descent) Almost certainly NIQ rather than NIE.

Now that eligibility through residency is 5 years. Provinces are not signing prospects that are eligible. Or if they do it has to be very young (Knox, Salanoa)

3 second rows is probably the biggest positionally.


So to make a team out of those players

1
2
3
4 Snyman
5 Carter
6 Fardy
7
8 Cotzee
9 mathewson
10
11 O'Donnell
12 De Alende
13 Papali'i
14 Porch
15 Faddes

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ronk
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Re: Wing going forward

Post by ronk »

johng wrote:
August 11th, 2020, 2:44 pm
No one in the Irish system to take advantage afaik. Lowe, Butler and Cloete all qualify this year.

Al 4 of Ulster's are NIE and both of Munster's. Fardy for us. Porch for Connacht

Fainga'a would have been ok for connacht but he's gone. No one else in the system bar possibly a new signing or 2 for connacht and they will be 2025 if they make it

We stopped signing projects when the rule came in. It appears to have had the desired effect.

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johng
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Re: Wing going forward

Post by johng »

Also to clarify. Both Knox and Salanoa are already qualified. So are not subject to 5 year rule. My point was that if we sign a project in the future it would have to be someone LIKE these 2.

The Irfu took full advantage of the last year of the 3 year qualifying. These 2 plus Lowe, Butler and Cloete.

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hugonaut
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Re: Wing going forward

Post by hugonaut »

mildlyinterested wrote:
August 12th, 2020, 8:48 am
U21
Max O'Reilly(St. Gerards/DUFC)
Andrew Smith(St. Michaels/Clontarf)
Niall Comerford(Blackrock/UCD)
U20
Josh O'Connor(Wexford RFC/UCD)
Chris Cosgrave(St. Michaels)
Jamie Osborne(Naas RFC)
U19
Shane Mallon(Longford RFC-CC Roscrea)
Aitzol King(Balbriggan RFC-CUS)
Jack Hanlon(Tullow RFC)
The wing for Michaels that set up Gilsenan's wunder-try [maybe Jack Kelly's brother?] looked pretty sharp on his feet. Is he on the radar?

mildlyinterested
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Re: Wing going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

hugonaut wrote:
August 12th, 2020, 9:30 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
August 12th, 2020, 8:48 am
U21
Max O'Reilly(St. Gerards/DUFC)
Andrew Smith(St. Michaels/Clontarf)
Niall Comerford(Blackrock/UCD)
U20
Josh O'Connor(Wexford RFC/UCD)
Chris Cosgrave(St. Michaels)
Jamie Osborne(Naas RFC)
U19
Shane Mallon(Longford RFC-CC Roscrea)
Aitzol King(Balbriggan RFC-CUS)
Jack Hanlon(Tullow RFC)
The wing for Michaels that set up Gilsenan's wunder-try [maybe Jack Kelly's brother?] looked pretty sharp on his feet. Is he on the radar?
On the radar yeah might be the 4th best wing prospect at u20 level behind those listed. Will be doing very well to push for an academy place IMO

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ronk
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Re: Wing going forward

Post by ronk »

johng wrote:
August 12th, 2020, 11:50 am
Also to clarify. Both Knox and Salanoa are already qualified. So are not subject to 5 year rule. My point was that if we sign a project in the future it would have to be someone LIKE these 2.

The Irfu took full advantage of the last year of the 3 year qualifying. These 2 plus Lowe, Butler and Cloete.

They will qualify soon.

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Re: Wing going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

TOB looked at home at 14 last night. Given his frame, wing could be his best bet to break into side.

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Re: Wing going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Dave Kearney(32/Clongowes/Lansdowne) Signed contract in 2019.
James Lowe(29) - Signed 3 yr contract in 2020.
Adam Byrne(27/Naas RFC/UCD) - Signed contract in 2020.
Cian Kelleher(27/St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - Signed contract in 2019.
Hugo Keenan(25/Blackrock/UCD) - Signed contract in 2019.
Jimmy O'Brien(24/Newbridge/UCD) - Signed contract in 2019.
Jordan Larmour(24/St. Andrews/St. Marys) - Signed contract in 2020.
Tommy O'Brien(23/Blackrock/UCD) - Signed contract in 2020.
Michael Silvester(23/Clongowes/DUFC) - Yr 3.
Aaron O'Sullivan(21/Exile/Blackrock) - Yr 3.
Max O'Reilly(21/St. Gerards/DUFC) - Yr 1.
Andrew Smith(21/St. Michaels/Clontarf) - Yr 1.
Niall Comerford(21/Blackrock/UCD) - Yr 1.
--
Chris Cosgrave(U20/St. Michaels/UCD)
Matthew McGettrick(U20/Terenure/Terenure)
Josh O'Connor(U20/Wexford RFC/UCD)
Shane Mallon(U19/Longford RFC-Roscrea/UCD)

Cosgrave will very likely join the academy, unsure if he will be joined by anyone else from list of sub academy wings. WIll Silvester or O'Sullivan join senior squad? Hard to say.. Where is Adam Byrne? Who knows.

* age as of start of next season.
Last edited by mildlyinterested on January 24th, 2021, 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

Blue Man
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Re: Wing going forward

Post by Blue Man »

If Byrne could stay fit and fix his defense it would be a big boost for the squad. He’s fast, strong and good in the air.
Tommy O’Brien probably more suited to 13.
O’Sullivan and Smith look very promising.
With injuries and unavailable players, we’re light in the 3/4s at the moment.

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ronk
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Re: Wing going forward

Post by ronk »

Having 4 or 5 injuries out of 6 wingers is going to do that.

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ronk
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Re: Wing going forward

Post by ronk »

And we lost McFadden and Rob Kearney too. Depth was tighter to begin with.

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