Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

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mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by mildlyinterested »

Is this Sexton's final season in blue? It would be a surprise given his attitude as of late, but he isn't getting any younger.. Ross Byrne remains an excellent backup with some concerns around his lack of athleticism at the highest level. He is joined by his younger brother, Harry who looked to the manor born in his appearances with the senior team to date and who has a lot of hype around him and Ciaran Frawley who provides a lot of versatility and athleticism, is his future at 10 for Leinster? Finally Hawkshaw hasn't played a game of rugby since March 2019 thanks to injury and covid, he enters his final year of the academy, hopefully he can get a run of games to remind people of his undoubted quality.

Jonathan Sexton(35/St. Marys/St. Marys) - 6'2, Centrally contracted until June 2021.
Ross Byrne(25/St.Michaels/UCD) - 6'3, Signed contract in 2020.
Ciaran Frawley(22/Skerries RFC/UCD) - 6'3, Signed contract in 2019
Harry Byrne(21/St.Michaels/Lansdowne) - 6'2, Signed contract in 2020.
David Hawkshaw(21/Belvedere/Clontarf) - 5'10, Academy Y3.

Potential academy entrants:
Tim Corkery(U20/Kilkenny RFC/UCD) - 5'10
Show Spoiler:
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Charlie Tector(U19/Kilkenny College) - 6'1
Show Spoiler:
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Fionn O'Hara(U19/Mullingar RFC) - 6'3
Show Spoiler:
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Corkery was the surprise of leinster underage rugby last season, emerging from the leinster 19's to play Leinster A and Irish 20's as a 18 year old. From a non traditional area in Kilkenny RFC, he will hope to be 1st choice for ireland u20 in 2021 and earn an academy place. Tector is another outhalf from Kilkenny, although he is from wexford, another county level hurler, he was set to be ireland schools outhalf pre-covid. Finally O'Hara is an extremely talented athlete who may move position, he looked set to be lost to AFL pre-covid but now that move to Australia looks dead for the foreseeable future..

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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by Flash Gordon »

Some good but unproven talent coming through. I think Frawley is the real deal on talent and ability, he reminds me of Paul Dean in that he glides across the pitch so effortlessly. He doesn't have Dean's distribution skills yet but he has a great boot. If we look after this kid he could be one of the greats. Byrne the younger is also a fantastic talent.

On Ross Byrne, he's a lad who has worked really hard on his game. Probably not quite got the natural talent of his kid brother, Frawley or Sexton but the work he does to improve his game is phenomenal - his place kicking and kicking from hand being a case in point.

Hawkshaw is another fantastic talent, question is do we develop him at out half or center?
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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by wixfjord »

Relevant to this, the first 50/22 kick in Super Rugby Aus happened this morning:
https://twitter.com/Murray_Kinsella/sta ... 2994515971

I think Ross B could really benefit from this.

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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by Dwarf »

For me Frawley doesn’t have the mental side yet to be termed top class prospect. He switches off mentally in games and does wayward passes and kicks. He started a few last season and had to be hooked for Harry Byrne who came on and turned the game around.

Fantastic on the break but doesn’t really get His back line moving. These are things he can work on but I have question marks over his concentration and will to close out games and shut teams down where there’s weakness.

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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by wixfjord »

Dwarf wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 2:20 pm
For me Frawley doesn’t have the mental side yet to be termed top class prospect. He switches off mentally in games and does wayward passes and kicks. He started a few last season and had to be hooked for Harry Byrne who came on and turned the game around.

Fantastic on the break but doesn’t really get His back line moving. These are things he can work on but I have question marks over his concentration and will to close out games and shut teams down where there’s weakness.
Yep I would be of the same opinion on Frawley.

Caveat though that he would have far less top level experience at 10 and is really still learning the game there.

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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by mildlyinterested »

I think Frawley's long term future at Leinster, if he is to have one, will have to be at a position other than 10.

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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by ronk »

If Ross was just coming through I’d have concerns about his speed. But he’s highly proven at the levels we need him at.

Others have high ceilings due to natural ability.

If Sexton is still performing and he stays then it is great but possibly pressures someone to look at leaving. If he goes, we have good players who need experience now but deserve chances and I feel good for the future.

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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by Xanthippe »

Ciaran Frawley has started 8 of his 25 games for Leinster since his debut In February 2018

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ronk
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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by ronk »

Xanthippe wrote:
July 4th, 2020, 7:51 pm
Ciaran Frawley has started 8 of his 25 games for Leinster since his debut In February 2018

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:green clap:
Well maybe those two blowouts were closer than they looked on paper. 😎

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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by neiliog93 »

mildlyinterested wrote:
July 3rd, 2020, 2:24 pm
I think Frawley's long term future at Leinster, if he is to have one, will have to be at a position other than 10.

He's big, strong, quite fast, good passer - could he play 12? I could see him unseating Henshaw there eventually.
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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by Blueberry »

Its the Byrne's for me from what I have seen. Ross is Mr reliable and Harry is Mr Flair.....ultimately who becomes number one will be interesting. Harry could play elsewhere I feel but Ross is a 10 period. Fawley I really like and is an exciting player but has versatility too and probably will end up leaving or playing another position. (12 ??)

Anytime I have seen Harry play there is a fuissance of unpredictability and excitement..and he is stacked with talent...if I had to have a bet he may be number 1 in 2 years time.

For me its Harry....but don't be surprised if it is Ross, his record is superb and he never lets us down.

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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by Ruckedtobits »

That's a great set of Stats for the CV of a young fly-half. In particular looking at the number of team tries in his appearances. I like Frawley and consider that he has more empathy for the players alongside him. Harry Byrne is more prepared to use his personal skill to engineer openings by way of line-breaks and chip-passes. Ross is Mr Reliable and perhaps makes the best use of what's around him.

Great selection headache to have but hold on to all three should be the key for the present.

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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by wixfjord »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
July 5th, 2020, 12:13 pm
That's a great set of Stats for the CV of a young fly-half. In particular looking at the number of team tries in his appearances. I like Frawley and consider that he has more empathy for the players alongside him. Harry Byrne is more prepared to use his personal skill to engineer openings by way of line-breaks and chip-passes. Ross is Mr Reliable and perhaps makes the best use of what's around him.

Great selection headache to have but hold on to all three should be the key for the present.

That's an interesting point, what do you mean?

I would've said the opposite, looking at his passing to those outside him there's often not much empathy or understanding! In fact I think that's a flaw in his game at the moment at 10.

HB meanwhile looks like he has a mix of both his bro's playmaking ability and Frawley's XFactor. Thought his performance against Glasgow really showed that well.

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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by mildlyinterested »


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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by ronk »

Ross Byrne is do-your-job good, and I don’t mean that as a criticism. He broke through when he was relied on prematurely through injuries. He needs to play a simple game and not do anything that loses the game. He didn’t need to go out and win it on his own. We’re used to doing that with out halves. Give them good ball and let them work some magic that breaks down the defence.

Al that highlights reel stuff is a tiny part of an out halves game. And Ross had it nailed anyway with that kick-pass party trick.

We’re more used to out halves failing because of taking too much on than too little. You probably have to have that element to be great, but you’ll never even be good if you don’t do the basics.

The just don’t recall him having many stinkers. But I have seen him do lots of good stuff on days when our back line really hummed.

I’d need to see more of Frawley and Harry. Especially in the bigger games.

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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by TMC »

Ross Byrne no argument, he has proved his worth.

RB has never let Leinster down. He ignored all the nonsense about Carberry being anointed as the second coming and just kept working on his game. He ignored the temptations of Shelbyville and Belfast when they came knocking. He has proven himself to be much more physically durable than JC. He keeps getting kicks in the teeth like the World Cup but comes back stronger each time. He has an inner steel that reminds me of a young Sexton who had to fight his way through and considered giving up the game because of a lack of opportunities. Johnny wasn’t perceived to be strong enough in 05/06 so Andy Dunne ( who was a super player when fit) was tempted back as a number 2 to Felipe. Isa was then signed originally as an out half in 2008. There weren’t many resounding votes of confidence in Sexton’s ability in the early years for Leinster’s most successful 10 ever. But Johnny kept working hard and when his chance came, he took it with two hands. We had no out half on the bench in the HEC final in 2009, we had two full backs in Dempsey and Kearney. Likewise when Madser was coming through Shaun Berne was signed as a 10/12 and Jimmy Gopperth was then signed when Johnny went to Paris. Leinster have a somewhat chequered history when it comes to fully trusting & backing home grown 10s.

I find it interesting that people overlook the fact RB was selected ahead of Carbery at 10 when Sexton was injured in 2017/8, the overriding media narrative was that Carbery was too good to be left out and he had to be accommodated in the team somewhere. Indeed. The implicit part of that argument is that the coaching group equally felt the same about Ross Byrne and rated him as the better 10 for the team. Both were dropped when Sexton & Kearney were fit for the knockout stages and JC was retained on the bench, understandable as he gives more flexibility but I think people read too much into that. Leinster got to the knock out phases because of Ross Byrne’s performances at 10 in the group stages. He contributed a lot again in the in 2018/9 season in Europe and the league. People continually underestimate him.

Ross Byrne has had to endure lots of nonsense in his career to date but he keeps producing and proving people wrong, I suspect he’ll continue to do so for the rest of his career. He is a far better player than people here seem to give him credit for, he has proven his worth against much tougher opposition and at a much higher level than the younger guys – both of whom have great potential – when they have done what he has proven he can do at European level then start talking about them in the same breath. Its easy to look like a world beater against a disinterested under strength Dragons or Ospreys at home. Walking the walk in away games in places like Montpellier when they have skin in the game & something to play for is a different kettle of fish. Neither of the other guys are close to his level yet IMO.

We are very lucky to have him.

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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by mildlyinterested »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rug ... 34342.html
In Leinster itself they have Jonathan Sexton, still only 35 years young and determined to ring another half-a-decade out of his career. Isa Nacewa jokes that Sexton could play through to 42 which makes you wonder what might come of Ross Byrne, his brother Harry and Ciaran Frawley.

All of them need more minutes.
Typical.

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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by alanair »

mildlyinterested wrote:
August 19th, 2020, 11:22 am
https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/rug ... 34342.html
In Leinster itself they have Jonathan Sexton, still only 35 years young and determined to ring another half-a-decade out of his career. Isa Nacewa jokes that Sexton could play through to 42 which makes you wonder what might come of Ross Byrne, his brother Harry and Ciaran Frawley.

All of them need more minutes.
Typical.
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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by wixfjord »

What exactly is there to take offence at there?!

I mean are we not all agree that we have a glut of talent at 10 and if Sexton keeps going it's possible that one of the other three may need to move or move position to fulfil their potential?

Frawley is seemingly already playing at 10.

It's the same thing in the backrow.

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Re: Sexton's last season? Outhalf going forward..

Post by Peg Leg »

wixfjord wrote:
August 19th, 2020, 2:00 pm
What exactly is there to take offence at there?!

I mean are we not all agree that we have a glut of talent at 10 and if Sexton keeps going it's possible that one of the other three may need to move or move position to fulfil their potential?

Frawley is seemingly already playing at 10.

It's the same thing in the backrow.
Ah we've seen this before with the "Leinster Riches at Scrum Half" article setting the mood music for Nick McCarthy's exit.

My preference here would be for Sexton to move down to Munster for next season. He'd love it down there.
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