Scrumhalf going forward

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wixfjord
Shane Jennings
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by wixfjord »

Ah lads come on. Utter nonsense to say Murray was never 'world class'.

He was second only to Smith for a good while and a Lions test starter :lol:

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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

Maybe for a bit, but ponderous for a good bit of his career

Workhorse
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Workhorse »

The Doc wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 8:51 am
John Robbie?
It's disappointing that this seems to have gone straight over everyone's head. What a player he was.

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Dave Cahill
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Dave Cahill »

Oldschoolsocks wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 11:20 am
Maybe for a bit, but ponderous for a good bit of his career
Maybe the teams he played for played to a ponderous game plan
I have Bumbleflex

mildlyinterested
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

John Robbie is a long time ago.

Beltza
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Beltza »

Workhorse wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 11:51 am
The Doc wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 8:51 am
John Robbie?
It's disappointing that this seems to have gone straight over everyone's head. What a player he was.
Though Colin Patterson was probably even better and was chosen as a Test Lion ahead of him.
(And I appreciate this is ancient history... and no relevance for professional rugby!)

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

Murray was neck and neck with Smith from the start of the 2013 season until after the World Cup IMO, and then was a good bit ahead of him until he got the hiccups in 2018. Smith's form dropped off hugely, especially after the toilet incident in 2016.

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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Back to leinster scrumhalves, it's interesting that Hughie, PP and Foley all played positions other than 9 in schools rugby.

Hugh O'Sullivan - played 15 in both 5th and 6th year.
Paddy Patterson - played wing in 5th year, before moving back to 9 in 6th year.
Cormac Foley - played 12 in 6th year, 9 in 5th. played 12 for irish u20's

they seem to be reverting back to specialist 9's at underage now for the most part.

alanair
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by alanair »

No disrespect to any of our current Scrum halves - anyone that has watched the NZ Super rugby of late will have witnessed the best scrum half in world rubgy , Aaron Smith- I would pay any money to have him - and Im sorry , but Murray is not in the same league at all

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Dave Cahill
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Dave Cahill »

Its great fun to watch, but lets not get too carried away with NZ Super Rugby. Its a bubble tournament, a bottle episode
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riocard911
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by riocard911 »

Workhorse wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 11:51 am
The Doc wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 8:51 am
John Robbie?
It's disappointing that this seems to have gone straight over everyone's head. What a player he was.
He was fabulous! Personally, I always rated him higher than Colin Patterson. He captained High School to their one and only win in the Senior Cup, beating Ollie Campbell's Belvo 19-7 in 1973, thereby preventing the latter from winning the thing three years in a row.

Workhorse
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Workhorse »

riocard911 wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 3:44 pm
He was fabulous! Personally, I always rated him higher than Colin Patterson. He captained High School to their one and only win in the Senior Cup, beating Ollie Campbell's Belvo 19-7 in 1973, thereby preventing the latter from winning the thing three years in a row.
Himself and the late Ian Burns (RIP) were quite the half back partnership. "Robbie Burns poetry in motion" was the headline I believe. Robbie kicked the penalties too and think the two of them scored all High Schools points in that final.

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Peg Leg
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Peg Leg »

Dave Cahill wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 3:00 pm
Its great fun to watch, but lets not get too carried away with NZ Super Rugby. Its a bubble tournament, a bottle episode
The Kandor Cup
"It was Mrs O'Leary's cow"
Daniel Sullivan

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Dave Cahill
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Dave Cahill »

Peg Leg wrote:
Dave Cahill wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 3:00 pm
Its great fun to watch, but lets not get too carried away with NZ Super Rugby. Its a bubble tournament, a bottle episode
The Kandor Cup
Bravo sir, bravo
I have Bumbleflex

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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

Dave Cahill wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 12:00 pm
Oldschoolsocks wrote:
July 8th, 2020, 11:20 am
Maybe for a bit, but ponderous for a good bit of his career
Maybe the teams he played for played to a ponderous game plan
Yup, for me a great scrum half can and does actively dictate the pace of a game, for all of his skills and abilities I never felt that this was consistently a part of his game...

mildlyinterested
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Cormac Foley joining the academy last year confirmed, listed as being in 2nd year of the academy.

Image

mildlyinterested
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Looks like Gilsenan is involved with sub academy group..

U20
Ben Murphy(Pres Bray/Clontarf)
Rob Gilsenan(St. Michaels/UCD)
Will Reilly(Portloaise RFC/MU Barnhall)
Matt Cullen(Blackrock)
U19
Oisin Devitt(Clongowes)
Conor Duggan(Castleknock)
Michael Moloney(Blackrock)
U18
Fintan Gunne(St. Michaels)
Culann Carbery(Athy RFC)

mildlyinterested
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Jamison Gibson Park(29) - 5'9, 83kg. Signed contract in 2019.
Luke McGrath(28/St. Michaels/UCD) - 5'9, 84kg. Signed contract in 2019.
Rowan Osborne(24/Clongowes/DUFC) - 5'6, 75kg. Signed contract in 2020.
Hugh O'Sullivan(23/Belvedere/Clontarf) - 5'10, 81kg. Signed contract in 2019.
Paddy Patterson(22/Blackrock/UCD) - 5'8, 76kg. Academy Y3
Cormac Foley(21/St. Gerards/Lansdowne) - 5'11, 85kg. Academy Y2
--
Will Reilly(U20/Portlaoise RFC/MU Barnhall)
Rob Gilsenan(U20/St. Michaels/UCD)

With Ben Murphy in Munster, I can't see him returning to join the long queue here, also I think if Leinster had rated him highly they would have tried to prevent the move, sending one the older squad scrumhalves south. Will either Reilly or Gilsenan get a leinster academy contract? You'd hope so but who knows at this stage.

Will Patterson move to the senior squad? Can someone step up as 3rd choice 9 and put some pressure on the top 2? Looks unlikely.

* age as of start of next season.

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hugonaut
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by hugonaut »

79 mins for Hughie O'Sullivan and 12 minutes for Rowan Osborne this season tells a story.

Paddy Patterson hasn't played since April 2019 ... 89 weeks ago. It's funny, he seems like he has been in the academy for about five years. He played in the Pro14 in his Year 1 [2018-19] but since then he has been on the outs.

We're not in danger of either of our scrum-halves losing form with age [JGP is 28 and will turn 29 during the season, Luke McGrath is 27 and will turn 28 this season], but there is zero pressure coming on them from lower down in the depth chart. There's not even any excitement amongst us, the internet ultras, about the lads lower down the depth chart.

I've said it before, I'd like to see Gilsenan get an opportunity with Leinster. From what I've seen of him, he's different in most respects than the guys that Leinster have been bringing into the Academy in recent years.

mildlyinterested
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Hughie needs to play 9 a lot to develop... he isn't getting that at Leinster, I doubt he will move on but something has got to give.

I assume one of Patterson/Osborne may move on.. Patterson has higher upside but obviously hasn't gotten much of a chance lately and looks more likely to be released.

I rate Gilsenan too.. but I'm not going to hold my breath on him getting an academy contract, something doesn't seem to be right there... Reilly being with the 20's was notable but given the strength of the 9 position and the doubt around the u20 six nations, i'm not sure he will get a chance to earn an academy contract there..

they need to be identifying someone to invest game time in anyway..

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