Scrumhalf going forward

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Oldschool
Cian Healy
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Oldschool »

ronk wrote:
March 14th, 2021, 1:13 pm
Murray jumped the queue pretty fast back in his day, so it’s hard to know to what extent they accelerated gametime for Casey in response to the threat of losing him. They did extend Matthewson though.

I’m inclined to think that Casey bolted on his own (like Murray).
Mathewson shouldn't have got an extension and it's still a wonder why he's up in Ulster now
Someone really doesn't like John Cooney.
Almost as big a wonder, I might add, as to why Ulster signed Burns.
Belief has left the building.
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mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

PP starting for Munster tonight with McCarthy on the bench so i'll be watching with interest.

wixfjord
Shane Jennings
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by wixfjord »

wixfjord wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 12:53 pm
carlow man wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 11:11 am
Hos was very poor last night. Hoping pp is ready to come in next year. Dont rate McCarthy at all. He went to the turnips and couldn't get a look but all of a sudden hes coming back to leinster and people are expecting a different player. He has wasted 2 years down there. That's his own doing. Baffled by the decision to bring him back. PP looks like he has real potential. Hos just doesn't look capable. Think yesterday he was just trying too hard and nothing came off for him.
It makes total sense to bring him back.

He's younger than JGP & McGrath so he fills a depth chart hole.

He'll be happy to fit in when needed.

He's more experienced and better than what we have and he knows all of the players around him.

I think it's a smart signing because from what we've seen of HOS he's not the answer. He looks very much like a handy athlete who's been thrown into 9, which is sort of what he is right?

PP looked good to me when he was given a few cameos a few seasons back, but obviously isn't impressing because we haven't seen him since.
I think last night showed exactly why we're bringing back HOS. Osborne looked ok, HOS was poor.

McCarthy isn't top class, but he's far closer to McGrath/JGP than anyone else on our roster.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Image

Luke is clear 1st choice these days for me.

We saw how lost leinster were without him against Ospreys.

Blue Man
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Blue Man »

The gulf between the top two and the rest is enormous. Worryingly there’s nothing coming through. Easily our weakest position in terms of depth which is clearly illustrated by the lack of minutes given to anyone other than the top two

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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Blue Man wrote:
March 29th, 2021, 10:18 pm
The gulf between the top two and the rest is enormous. Worryingly there’s nothing coming through. Easily our weakest position in terms of depth which is clearly illustrated by the lack of minutes given to anyone other than the top two
there's plenty of talent currently in school and there's a very talented scrumhalf at u20 level.. but none of them have gotten any rugby in a year and the most important thing for a young scrumhalf to get to develop is gametime..

saying that the return of McCarthy will add to leinsters depth ensuring there will be three good options available next season.

finally Patterson looked pretty good for Munster before injury, i'm unclear what his future is with leinster, why he was behind HOS and Osborne and why his basics looked so much better playing for Munster than Leinster.

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Serb
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Serb »

Would another NIQ in the 9 spot be ridiculous? Even just for a couple of years to bridge the gap?

Seems likely that one of McGrath / JGP will be involved with Ireland, and as mentioned above, we were awful once O’Sullivan came on against the Ospreys. Would have been nice to have another experienced head at the ruck to keep us from falling apart.

It would basically write off Nick McCarthy and anyone else who sticks around, but realistically, we don’t trust any of those lads in the first place.

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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Serb wrote:
March 30th, 2021, 12:02 am
Would another NIQ in the 9 spot be ridiculous? Even just for a couple of years to bridge the gap?

Seems likely that one of McGrath / JGP will be involved with Ireland, and as mentioned above, we were awful once O’Sullivan came on against the Ospreys. Would have been nice to have another experienced head at the ruck to keep us from falling apart.

It would basically write off Nick McCarthy and anyone else who sticks around, but realistically, we don’t trust any of those lads in the first place.
They've re-signed McCarthy to have another experienced head at the ruck that they trust to stop them from falling apart like they did against ospreys.

An NIQ signing is not happening.

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ronk
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by ronk »

mildlyinterested wrote:
March 30th, 2021, 12:10 am
Serb wrote:
March 30th, 2021, 12:02 am
Would another NIQ in the 9 spot be ridiculous? Even just for a couple of years to bridge the gap?

Seems likely that one of McGrath / JGP will be involved with Ireland, and as mentioned above, we were awful once O’Sullivan came on against the Ospreys. Would have been nice to have another experienced head at the ruck to keep us from falling apart.

It would basically write off Nick McCarthy and anyone else who sticks around, but realistically, we don’t trust any of those lads in the first place.
They've re-signed McCarthy to have another experienced head at the ruck that they trust to stop them from falling apart like they did against ospreys.

An NIQ signing is not happening.
I agree. Of the oldest try scorers since 2000, 4 are scrumhalves.

We like our experience to be at 9. Our current pair might be around 5 more years, but it could be 7 too. An NIQ would only happen if there was a protracted injury situation.

We aren’t good at developing scrumhalves. Too many will further dilute the limited opportunities, to the benefit of no one.

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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

FYI Paddy Patterson has undergone surgery on his ankle injury.

backrower8
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by backrower8 »

mildlyinterested wrote:
March 29th, 2021, 10:30 pm
there's plenty of talent currently in school and there's a very talented scrumhalf at u20 level.. but none of them have gotten any rugby in a year and the most important thing for a young scrumhalf to get to develop is gametime..
Game time is vital for all positions, and all levels of experience. It is particularly important for young players and more again for those in highly technical roles (front row, half back, 13, 15.

Game time is the missing link for everyone bar the international and core 1st XV players in the Covid era.

Who is the “very talented” 9 at U20 level that you refer to?

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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

backrower8 wrote:
March 30th, 2021, 11:26 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
March 29th, 2021, 10:30 pm
there's plenty of talent currently in school and there's a very talented scrumhalf at u20 level.. but none of them have gotten any rugby in a year and the most important thing for a young scrumhalf to get to develop is gametime..
Game time is vital for all positions, and all levels of experience. It is particularly important for young players and more again for those in highly technical roles (front row, half back, 13, 15.

Game time is the missing link for everyone bar the international and core 1st XV players in the Covid era.

Who is the “very talented” 9 at U20 level that you refer to?
Gilsenan is the most talented 9 in the u20 age group for me.

But he hasn't played much since winning the cup two years ago, so i'm expecting him to be lost from the system.

Ruckedtobits
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Ruckedtobits »

mildlyinterested wrote:
March 30th, 2021, 11:28 am
backrower8 wrote:
March 30th, 2021, 11:26 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
March 29th, 2021, 10:30 pm
there's plenty of talent currently in school and there's a very talented scrumhalf at u20 level.. but none of them have gotten any rugby in a year and the most important thing for a young scrumhalf to get to develop is gametime..
Game time is vital for all positions, and all levels of experience. It is particularly important for young players and more again for those in highly technical roles (front row, half back, 13, 15.

Game time is the missing link for everyone bar the international and core 1st XV players in the Covid era.

Who is the “very talented” 9 at U20 level that you refer to?
Gilsenan is the most talented 9 in the u20 age group for me.

But he hasn't played much since winning the cup two years ago, so i'm expecting him to be lost from the system.
Accurate, fast passing directly off the ground, on both sides, is the fundamental prerequisite for a potential Pro scrum-half. After that are a bunch of desirable talents which you'd love to see but may not be as important if the first condition is totally satisfied. IMO, Scotland has developed the best string of international No 9 in the NH over the past 30 years.

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Shane Jennings
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
March 30th, 2021, 3:02 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
March 30th, 2021, 11:28 am
backrower8 wrote:
March 30th, 2021, 11:26 am


Game time is vital for all positions, and all levels of experience. It is particularly important for young players and more again for those in highly technical roles (front row, half back, 13, 15.

Game time is the missing link for everyone bar the international and core 1st XV players in the Covid era.

Who is the “very talented” 9 at U20 level that you refer to?
Gilsenan is the most talented 9 in the u20 age group for me.

But he hasn't played much since winning the cup two years ago, so i'm expecting him to be lost from the system.
Accurate, fast passing directly off the ground, on both sides, is the fundamental prerequisite for a potential Pro scrum-half. After that are a bunch of desirable talents which you'd love to see but may not be as important if the first condition is totally satisfied. IMO, Scotland has developed the best string of international No 9 in the NH over the past 30 years.
Agreed, leinster's young 9's have struggled to display that when i've seen them recently in game situations of course the standard and speed of pass may be determined by many in game factors and the scrumhalves decision making.. the more experience young 9's have of in game situations and adapting to not ideal ball the better in terms of being able to learn, adapt and improve their in game passing but if they don't have the consistenly excellent pass to begin with i'm not sure what their ceiling is as a professional level player.

It's of note that the best leinster underage 9's in the past decade have mostly come from the same school, while in Munster/Ulster their best prospects at 9 are sons of coaches.

Two of leinster's currently contracted scrumhalves have played very little scrumhalf while in school and since leaving school haven't played a large amount of minutes at the position at AIL or u20 level, this is not the way to develop them.

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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by backrower8 »

mildlyinterested wrote:
March 30th, 2021, 11:28 am
Gilsenan is the most talented 9 in the u20 age group for me.

But he hasn't played much since winning the cup two years ago, so i'm expecting him to be lost from the system.
I hear he will play with UCD when things resume but that the Leinster show will most likely have moved onto the next crop by then. Sad if true as he has a great all round game and is a giant compared to every other 9 in the pro ranks bar Murray (& McCarthy). Maybe there is more going on than pure talent.

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Shane Jennings
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

backrower8 wrote:
March 31st, 2021, 2:09 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
March 30th, 2021, 11:28 am
Gilsenan is the most talented 9 in the u20 age group for me.

But he hasn't played much since winning the cup two years ago, so i'm expecting him to be lost from the system.
I hear he will play with UCD when things resume but that the Leinster show will most likely have moved onto the next crop by then. Sad if true as he has a great all round game and is a giant compared to every other 9 in the pro ranks bar Murray (& McCarthy). Maybe there is more going on than pure talent.
Yep I expect Leinster will be moving onto the u19 age group this summer.

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Shane Jennings
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

So Nick Mc confirmed to be returning..

I wonder if they'll be happy with 3 senior 9's next season?

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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Peg Leg »

If the Rainbow cup is cancelled, can he come home sooner? Like before the May bank holiday weekend?
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Cian Healy
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Oldschool »

Peg Leg wrote:
April 12th, 2021, 12:28 pm
If the Rainbow cup is cancelled, can he come home sooner? Like before the May bank holiday weekend?
Might he be HCC tied?
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

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Shane Jennings
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Ben Murphy and Cormac Foley didn't exactly inspire for Leinster A at the weekend.

Foley's biggest issue being his pass and Murphy his defense.

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