Scrumhalf going forward

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carlow man
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by carlow man »

Hos was very poor last night. Hoping pp is ready to come in next year. Dont rate McCarthy at all. He went to the turnips and couldn't get a look but all of a sudden hes coming back to leinster and people are expecting a different player. He has wasted 2 years down there. That's his own doing. Baffled by the decision to bring him back. PP looks like he has real potential. Hos just doesn't look capable. Think yesterday he was just trying too hard and nothing came off for him.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

I'm not even sure PP has a leinster contract for next season.. wait and see.

I don't think bringing back McCarthy is baffling at all, he is much more consistent than PP, HOS, Osborne or Foley and Leinster need a viable 3rd choice 9 they can trust.

wixfjord
Shane Jennings
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by wixfjord »

carlow man wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 11:11 am
Hos was very poor last night. Hoping pp is ready to come in next year. Dont rate McCarthy at all. He went to the turnips and couldn't get a look but all of a sudden hes coming back to leinster and people are expecting a different player. He has wasted 2 years down there. That's his own doing. Baffled by the decision to bring him back. PP looks like he has real potential. Hos just doesn't look capable. Think yesterday he was just trying too hard and nothing came off for him.
It makes total sense to bring him back.

He's younger than JGP & McGrath so he fills a depth chart hole.

He'll be happy to fit in when needed.

He's more experienced and better than what we have and he knows all of the players around him.

I think it's a smart signing because from what we've seen of HOS he's not the answer. He looks very much like a handy athlete who's been thrown into 9, which is sort of what he is right?

PP looked good to me when he was given a few cameos a few seasons back, but obviously isn't impressing because we haven't seen him since.

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LeRouxIsPHat
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by LeRouxIsPHat »

If your starting point is that you don’t rate him then obviously it won’t make sense :lol:

I struggle to see how people don’t rate him tbh. Aside from a tendency to get charged down (although I think this happens most Irish scrumhalves because we don’t tend to use the caterpillar) I don’t really see any obvious weakness. As I keep saying, his all round game is very good without having one outstanding attribute.

Thought he had a very strong game last night. He looks really confident and I think that’s down to playing more games, the ability has always been there IMO.

carlow man
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by carlow man »

wixfjord wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 12:53 pm
carlow man wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 11:11 am
Hos was very poor last night. Hoping pp is ready to come in next year. Dont rate McCarthy at all. He went to the turnips and couldn't get a look but all of a sudden hes coming back to leinster and people are expecting a different player. He has wasted 2 years down there. That's his own doing. Baffled by the decision to bring him back. PP looks like he has real potential. Hos just doesn't look capable. Think yesterday he was just trying too hard and nothing came off for him.
It makes total sense to bring him back.

He's younger than JGP & McGrath so he fills a depth chart hole.

He'll be happy to fit in when needed.

He's more experienced and better than what we have and he knows all of the players around him.

I think it's a smart signing because from what we've seen of HOS he's not the answer. He looks very much like a handy athlete who's been thrown into 9, which is sort of what he is right?

PP looked good to me when he was given a few cameos a few seasons back, but obviously isn't impressing because we haven't seen him since.
I disagree but we are entitled to our own opinions. I just think at the age of 28 he would have at least come back with a bit more about him, playing regularly for munster, a few games in the euro cup perhaps. But hes done nothing down there in 2 years. Munster didn't see much in him in that time. Just think we should be looking at a mattewson type overseas 9 who could do a job for us instead. But its just my opinion.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

carlow man wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 1:31 pm
wixfjord wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 12:53 pm
carlow man wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 11:11 am
Hos was very poor last night. Hoping pp is ready to come in next year. Dont rate McCarthy at all. He went to the turnips and couldn't get a look but all of a sudden hes coming back to leinster and people are expecting a different player. He has wasted 2 years down there. That's his own doing. Baffled by the decision to bring him back. PP looks like he has real potential. Hos just doesn't look capable. Think yesterday he was just trying too hard and nothing came off for him.
It makes total sense to bring him back.

He's younger than JGP & McGrath so he fills a depth chart hole.

He'll be happy to fit in when needed.

He's more experienced and better than what we have and he knows all of the players around him.

I think it's a smart signing because from what we've seen of HOS he's not the answer. He looks very much like a handy athlete who's been thrown into 9, which is sort of what he is right?

PP looked good to me when he was given a few cameos a few seasons back, but obviously isn't impressing because we haven't seen him since.
I disagree but we are entitled to our own opinions. I just think at the age of 28 he would have at least come back with a bit more about him, playing regularly for munster, a few games in the euro cup perhaps. But hes done nothing down there in 2 years. Munster didn't see much in him in that time. Just think we should be looking at a mattewson type overseas 9 who could do a job for us instead. But its just my opinion.
Currently he is 25, he will be 26 when he returns.

He hasn't played european cup due to the matthewson signing, casey emerging and Murray. When he went south he was realistically going to be Murrays backup which usually means F all time in the european cup anyway.

I doubt leinster want to waste a NIQ slot on the 3rd choice 9.

McCarthy is returning to a squad he knows very very well, many of it's young leaders he has played or known for 10+ years. It's an excellent signing for the squad given none of the young 9's through the academy have been rated as good enough by the coaches.

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ronk
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by ronk »

McCarthy is a confidence player. Give him a run of a few games and he looks sharp. Drop him and give him a few 10 minute runs and he’ll be making mistakes.

Munster have an ugly way of signing guys cheap and never giving them a proper shot.

Cooney is a similar example. Had some good games in Leinster but faded from the running, struggled to get picked/fit in Connacht. Instant success in Ulster. Not rated by international coaches.

wixfjord
Shane Jennings
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by wixfjord »

carlow man wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 1:31 pm
wixfjord wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 12:53 pm
carlow man wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 11:11 am
Hos was very poor last night. Hoping pp is ready to come in next year. Dont rate McCarthy at all. He went to the turnips and couldn't get a look but all of a sudden hes coming back to leinster and people are expecting a different player. He has wasted 2 years down there. That's his own doing. Baffled by the decision to bring him back. PP looks like he has real potential. Hos just doesn't look capable. Think yesterday he was just trying too hard and nothing came off for him.
It makes total sense to bring him back.

He's younger than JGP & McGrath so he fills a depth chart hole.

He'll be happy to fit in when needed.

He's more experienced and better than what we have and he knows all of the players around him.

I think it's a smart signing because from what we've seen of HOS he's not the answer. He looks very much like a handy athlete who's been thrown into 9, which is sort of what he is right?

PP looked good to me when he was given a few cameos a few seasons back, but obviously isn't impressing because we haven't seen him since.
I disagree but we are entitled to our own opinions. I just think at the age of 28 he would have at least come back with a bit more about him, playing regularly for munster, a few games in the euro cup perhaps. But hes done nothing down there in 2 years. Munster didn't see much in him in that time. Just think we should be looking at a mattewson type overseas 9 who could do a job for us instead. But its just my opinion.
There's absolutely no hope of us signing a NIQ/NIE 9 to sit third on our depth chart.

So if you take that as the basis, bringing a guy in who at 25 has both experience in our team and at league/Euro level and is hungry to prove himself is a good bit of business imo.

Wasn't he captain of the Irish U20s iirc? Like the guy clearly has something about him and I'd be far more comfortable with him benching for us in a crunch Euro game than HOS/Patterson/Osborne if it came to that.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

wixfjord wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 1:55 pm
carlow man wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 1:31 pm
wixfjord wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 12:53 pm


It makes total sense to bring him back.

He's younger than JGP & McGrath so he fills a depth chart hole.

He'll be happy to fit in when needed.

He's more experienced and better than what we have and he knows all of the players around him.

I think it's a smart signing because from what we've seen of HOS he's not the answer. He looks very much like a handy athlete who's been thrown into 9, which is sort of what he is right?

PP looked good to me when he was given a few cameos a few seasons back, but obviously isn't impressing because we haven't seen him since.
I disagree but we are entitled to our own opinions. I just think at the age of 28 he would have at least come back with a bit more about him, playing regularly for munster, a few games in the euro cup perhaps. But hes done nothing down there in 2 years. Munster didn't see much in him in that time. Just think we should be looking at a mattewson type overseas 9 who could do a job for us instead. But its just my opinion.
There's absolutely no hope of us signing a NIQ/NIE 9 to sit third on our depth chart.

So if you take that as the basis, bringing a guy in who at 25 has both experience in our team and at league/Euro level and is hungry to prove himself is a good bit of business imo.

Wasn't he captain of the Irish U20s iirc? Like the guy clearly has something about him and I'd be far more comfortable with him benching for us in a crunch Euro game than HOS/Patterson/Osborne if it came to that.
Yeah in his 2nd season at u20. He has one of the most decorated irish u20 careers of any player, let alone scrumhalf. 18 caps out of a possible 20. Missing his final 2 caps due to a shoulder injury.

riocard911
Rhys Ruddock
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by riocard911 »

wixfjord: "... I'd be far more comfortable with him benching for us in a crunch Euro game than HOS/Patterson/Osborne if it came to that."

Ditto!!!

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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

carlow man wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 1:31 pm
wixfjord wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 12:53 pm
carlow man wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 11:11 am
Hos was very poor last night. Hoping pp is ready to come in next year. Dont rate McCarthy at all. He went to the turnips and couldn't get a look but all of a sudden hes coming back to leinster and people are expecting a different player. He has wasted 2 years down there. That's his own doing. Baffled by the decision to bring him back. PP looks like he has real potential. Hos just doesn't look capable. Think yesterday he was just trying too hard and nothing came off for him.
It makes total sense to bring him back.

He's younger than JGP & McGrath so he fills a depth chart hole.

He'll be happy to fit in when needed.

He's more experienced and better than what we have and he knows all of the players around him.

I think it's a smart signing because from what we've seen of HOS he's not the answer. He looks very much like a handy athlete who's been thrown into 9, which is sort of what he is right?

PP looked good to me when he was given a few cameos a few seasons back, but obviously isn't impressing because we haven't seen him since.
I disagree but we are entitled to our own opinions. I just think at the age of 28 he would have at least come back with a bit more about him, playing regularly for munster, a few games in the euro cup perhaps. But hes done nothing down there in 2 years. Munster didn't see much in him in that time. Just think we should be looking at a mattewson type overseas 9 who could do a job for us instead. But its just my opinion.
Munster selection policy is Uber conservative, I felt this was always going to be a bad move for him. Van G is happy to leave talent rotting on the vine

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munster#1
Shane Horgan
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by munster#1 »

Oldschoolsocks wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 9:57 pm
carlow man wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 1:31 pm
wixfjord wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 12:53 pm


It makes total sense to bring him back.

He's younger than JGP & McGrath so he fills a depth chart hole.

He'll be happy to fit in when needed.

He's more experienced and better than what we have and he knows all of the players around him.

I think it's a smart signing because from what we've seen of HOS he's not the answer. He looks very much like a handy athlete who's been thrown into 9, which is sort of what he is right?

PP looked good to me when he was given a few cameos a few seasons back, but obviously isn't impressing because we haven't seen him since.
I disagree but we are entitled to our own opinions. I just think at the age of 28 he would have at least come back with a bit more about him, playing regularly for munster, a few games in the euro cup perhaps. But hes done nothing down there in 2 years. Munster didn't see much in him in that time. Just think we should be looking at a mattewson type overseas 9 who could do a job for us instead. But its just my opinion.
Munster selection policy is Uber conservative, I felt this was always going to be a bad move for him. Van G is happy to leave talent rotting on the vine
Does that stand up to scrutiny?
Since Nicks arrival Munster have fast tracked the development of a promising young scrum half. Who at 21 has already play 23 times.

The conservative approach would have been to stick with Nick as second choice IMO??

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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

munster#1 wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 11:20 pm
Oldschoolsocks wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 9:57 pm
carlow man wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 1:31 pm


I disagree but we are entitled to our own opinions. I just think at the age of 28 he would have at least come back with a bit more about him, playing regularly for munster, a few games in the euro cup perhaps. But hes done nothing down there in 2 years. Munster didn't see much in him in that time. Just think we should be looking at a mattewson type overseas 9 who could do a job for us instead. But its just my opinion.
Munster selection policy is Uber conservative, I felt this was always going to be a bad move for him. Van G is happy to leave talent rotting on the vine
Does that stand up to scrutiny?
Since Nicks arrival Munster have fast tracked the development of a promising young scrum half. Who at 21 has already play 23 times.

The conservative approach would have been to stick with Nick as second choice IMO??
Yes

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munster#1
Shane Horgan
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by munster#1 »

Oldschoolsocks wrote:
March 14th, 2021, 1:26 am
munster#1 wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 11:20 pm
Oldschoolsocks wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 9:57 pm


Munster selection policy is Uber conservative, I felt this was always going to be a bad move for him. Van G is happy to leave talent rotting on the vine
Does that stand up to scrutiny?
Since Nicks arrival Munster have fast tracked the development of a promising young scrum half. Who at 21 has already play 23 times.

The conservative approach would have been to stick with Nick as second choice IMO??
Yes
Always good to agree.

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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

Yup, it stands up to scrutiny, glad you can see it too

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ronk
Leo Cullen
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by ronk »

munster#1 wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 11:20 pm


Does that stand up to scrutiny?
Since Nicks arrival Munster have fast tracked the development of a promising young scrum half. Who at 21 has already play 23 times.

The conservative approach would have been to stick with Nick as second choice IMO??
Why sign McCarthy then?

Casey was upgraded to a development contract only to fend off interest from Leinster. Clearly there was no plan to fast track Casey.

riocard911
Rhys Ruddock
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by riocard911 »

ronk wrote:
March 14th, 2021, 8:54 am
munster#1 wrote:
March 13th, 2021, 11:20 pm


Does that stand up to scrutiny?
Since Nicks arrival Munster have fast tracked the development of a promising young scrum half. Who at 21 has already play 23 times.

The conservative approach would have been to stick with Nick as second choice IMO??
Why sign McCarthy then?

Casey was upgraded to a development contract only to fend off interest from Leinster. Clearly there was no plan to fast track Casey.
So essentially Casey has Leo to thank for his Ireland jersey. Leinster leading the way again!!!

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ronk
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by ronk »

Murray jumped the queue pretty fast back in his day, so it’s hard to know to what extent they accelerated gametime for Casey in response to the threat of losing him. They did extend Matthewson though.

I’m inclined to think that Casey bolted on his own (like Murray).

Blue Man
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Re: Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Blue Man »

I thought HOS was reasonable on Friday, albeit against Zebre. I’d start him next week to rest Luke and see whe HOS can do if given a start

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Serb
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Scrumhalf going forward

Post by Serb »

Absolutely no chance anyone other than Luke McGrath will start this game at 9 assuming he’s fit.

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