Hooker options going forward

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FLIP
Isa Nacewa
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by FLIP »

mildlyinterested wrote:
January 29th, 2021, 8:33 pm
bring BB back!!
Quick change of tune there mildly. :lol:
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mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

FLIP wrote:
January 29th, 2021, 8:36 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
January 29th, 2021, 8:33 pm
bring BB back!!
Quick change of tune there mildly. :lol:
slight tongue in cheek.. still if he sorted his throwing out, leinster could do worse than see if he was interested in returning.

also if he has indeed sorted his throwing out, how come it only happened after he left leinster? what coaching are leinster doing when it comes to the skill of lineout throwing? or rather what aren't they doing.

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ronk
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by ronk »

FLIP wrote:
January 29th, 2021, 8:36 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
January 29th, 2021, 8:33 pm
bring BB back!!
Quick change of tune there mildly. :lol:
Give him a year. If he’s still doing well Munster will discover him

FLIP
Isa Nacewa
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by FLIP »

mildlyinterested wrote:
January 29th, 2021, 8:38 pm
FLIP wrote:
January 29th, 2021, 8:36 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
January 29th, 2021, 8:33 pm
bring BB back!!
Quick change of tune there mildly. :lol:
slight tongue in cheek.. still if he sorted his throwing out, leinster could do worse than see if he was interested in returning.

also if he has indeed sorted his throwing out, how come it only happened after he left leinster? what coaching are leinster doing when it comes to the skill of lineout throwing? or rather what aren't they doing.
Indeed, I'd like to know too. Plenty of talk of hookers getting mental coaching over the years but what about the fundamentals?
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D4surfer
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by D4surfer »

One thing I noticed was when Bristol won a penalty that they intended kicking to touch, Byrne immediately agreed the lineout call. He ran to touch and cleaned a ball ready to throw even before the kick was taken. The lineout unit then arrived and the throw came in straight away. There was no fluting around deciding what to do and giving the defence time to organise. It was really effective.

backrower8
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by backrower8 »

I have watched the last 2 games and his throwing has been excellent. Game time is a real problem for so many players, especially in Covid.

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ronk
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by ronk »

D4surfer wrote:
January 29th, 2021, 9:43 pm
One thing I noticed was when Bristol won a penalty that they intended kicking to touch, Byrne immediately agreed the lineout call. He ran to touch and cleaned a ball ready to throw even before the kick was taken. The lineout unit then arrived and the throw came in straight away. There was no fluting around deciding what to do and giving the defence time to organise. It was really effective.

Interesting. Touch could be missed though.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

backrower8 wrote:
January 29th, 2021, 10:38 pm
I have watched the last 2 games and his throwing has been excellent. Game time is a real problem for so many players, especially in Covid.
does a skill like lineout throwing improve with more gametime or better coaching?

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ronk
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by ronk »

mildlyinterested wrote:
January 30th, 2021, 7:15 am
backrower8 wrote:
January 29th, 2021, 10:38 pm
I have watched the last 2 games and his throwing has been excellent. Game time is a real problem for so many players, especially in Covid.
does a skill like lineout throwing improve with more gametime or better coaching?
Both. But mostly coaching and practise.

15 throws a week isn’t much but it’s a high line out count in a game.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Leinster may need a dedicated skills coach.. the inability to get high level consistent basics from certain positions in the squad is not really good enough.

Ruckedtobits
Shane Jennings
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by Ruckedtobits »

mildlyinterested wrote:
January 30th, 2021, 7:15 am
backrower8 wrote:
January 29th, 2021, 10:38 pm
I have watched the last 2 games and his throwing has been excellent. Game time is a real problem for so many players, especially in Covid.
does a skill like lineout throwing improve with more gametime or better coaching?
Totally agree. Currently, there are about 9 different throws that a hooker should be able to execute repetitively (according to a NZ Provincial forwards coach). Accuracy requirement on distance is 90%+ (no more than one throw in 10 should be too short or overthrow target). Straight throwing requirement i.e. not penalised for 'crooked-in', is 96%, that is one throw in 25. Preferred throwing action is two-handed, rather than one-hand dominant. The NZ coaching viewpoint is that Northern Hemisphere throws are generally too slow paced through the air. They acknowledge however that competition in the air is a far bigger factor up here than in SH.

Major focus in SH line-outs, is trying to interpret and intercept opposition line-out intentions, usually based on positional set-up of lifters. PO'C was considered one of the world experts in video review / research of opposition line-outs when playing with Ireland & Lions.

OneLungDavy
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by OneLungDavy »

We've seen very little of Sheehan since his senior debut, has he fallen out of favour?

backrower8
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by backrower8 »

ronk wrote:
January 30th, 2021, 8:54 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
January 30th, 2021, 7:15 am
backrower8 wrote:
January 29th, 2021, 10:38 pm
I have watched the last 2 games and his throwing has been excellent. Game time is a real problem for so many players, especially in Covid.
does a skill like lineout throwing improve with more gametime or better coaching?
Both. But mostly coaching and practise.

15 throws a week isn’t much but it’s a high line out count in a game.
You need both of course. Coaching is a given, albeit its effectiveness isn’t, and will always outweigh match minutes. Playing matches is the high altar and too many players suffer from playing less than a handful of matches every year - in fact some squad players might only get a few games a year for several years. Brian Byrne (rated 3rd or 4th best when here) seems to be blossoming in the what is currently the best team in England. In fact I would expect them or Exeter to beat us at the moment.

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IanD
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by IanD »

Apologies.

Wrong thread.
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alanair
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by alanair »

OneLungDavy wrote:
January 30th, 2021, 5:00 pm
We've seen very little of Sheehan since his senior debut, has he fallen out of favour?
He played last ( Badly like most of the team) in Leinster A game V Ulster...

D4surfer
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by D4surfer »

Bryan Byrne got his 7th try of the season for Bristol tonight after about 5 minutes. He immediately left for a HIA and didn’t return.

Fan with smartphone
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by Fan with smartphone »

You’ve gone all French neurologist there - I think it was his knee that did for him. Seemed minor and maybe happened in warm up. Did not want to come off at all and tried to play on through it, but he clearly wasn’t 100%. Bagged the try off a rolling maul just before going off, but I don’t think he got a head knock thankfully.

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by Oldschool »

[quote=D4surfer post_id=773538 time=1613166162 user_id=3621]
Bryan Byrne got his 7th try of the season for Bristol tonight after about 5 minutes. He immediately left for a HIA and didn’t return.
[/quote]
Could we send some more of our hookers abroad so that they can learn how to throw into the lineout properly.
On a rotation and all Ireland basis.
Mirror, Mirror on the Wall who's the greatest player of them all? It is Drico your majesty.

mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

would seem to be the only way of improving their throwing.

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hugonaut
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by hugonaut »

mildlyinterested wrote:
February 13th, 2021, 10:58 am
would seem to be the only way of improving their throwing.
His improvement as a thrower has been, at least to me, amazing.

I remember being at an 'A' game when he had an absolute horrorshow out of touch, as bad a performance as a thrower as I have ever seen at pro level. I felt really sorry for him, because you could see his confidence ebb every time he made his way to the lineout. He had the yips. He was a really lively, diligent and intelligent player around the pitch, but it looked like a fatal flaw.

This sounds very basic, but I thought that Bryan struggled a bit because he doesn't have big hands. It's much easier to 'save' a throw at your release [by imparting more spin] if your fingers are long enough to grip the edges of the top quarter of the ball. Bismarck du Plessis, for example, has huge hands. They almost meet around the centre of the ball when he's throwing it.

I used to actually play hooker in school [up to JCT level], as I was about the same size at 15 as I am now! I've always kept an interest in hookers' throwing mechanics, and I think that a lot of the commentary on here is overly harsh. It's frustrating when we have a bad day at the lineout, but the nature of a lineout is that it is a contest for possession [as the scrum used to be]. The laws of rugby were framed around a lot of contests for possession in different manners – scrum, lineout, maul, ruck etc. – and it is the nature of the game [or should be], that these are genuine contests, not just protocols, like scrums in RL.

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