Hooker options going forward

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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

Oh, and John Hayes

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Oldschoolsocks wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 10:59 am
Oh, and John Hayes
was never a hooker and again it was 20 years ago.

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

mildlyinterested wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 11:16 am
Oldschoolsocks wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 10:59 am
Oh, and John Hayes
was never a hooker and again it was 20 years ago.
correct John Hayes was a hurler then briefly a second row, and since you're the one who brought Brad Thorne into it - he was a prop and lock in Rubgy LEAGUE - an entirely different sport and position and he became one of the greats of the union game - representing New Zealand within 2 years of converting to Union :lol:

I seem to recall that Mike Ross converted to tighthead from no.8 :lol:

so there's three pretty solid examples of players who at least excelled after changing position and in some cases code after leaving school 2 of whom have substantial number of Ireland caps :lol: AT TIGHTHEAD :lol:

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by FLIP »

mildlyinterested wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 9:53 am
FLIP wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 9:36 am
Theleinsterlad wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 8:59 am


One thing changing a loose head to tight head but changing someone to prop from fresh is too tall an order at professional level in my view
I disagree with this. Propping isn't some magical world where you have to have worked in the dark for years to come good, it can be taught and learned quickly with the right coaching. Most of the "dark arts" are actually blatant cheating completely missed by referees because of incompetence, not cleverness.

I feel moving to hooker would actually be a harder task.
Can it? How does that explain the utter lack of young props developed by anyone other than leinster the past decade?

I'd say it would be a very big task to covert someone who has only ever played hooker to prop than someone who has only ever played prop to hooker... plenty of examples of the latter, not many of the former.
Bad coaching and structures. The other provinces in this area have believed in the tried and tested methods instead of innovating, hiring coaches who proclaim to be masters of the "dark arts" instead of building from fundamentals.

It's telling that across the board from grassroutes to academy teams in England, the RFU are using the same framework for scrums. This framework isn't based around tricks and old fashioned nonsense, instead it works on a common methodology and fundamental skills and techniques. I've yet to see anything like this from the IRFU.

Being a hooker at the top level today, you already have a good basis for scrummaging. Whereas to be a good hooker, you have to learn to hook, throw into the lineout etc which are far more difficult skills to learn, and even harder to master when the pressure is on.
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by ronk »

Ruckedtobits wrote:
July 9th, 2020, 10:33 am
Except when you look at his quads, which rival even Porter. Real power with McBride showing him how to best use them in the scrum.

Really want to see him nail his lineout throwing to 5, 6, 7 and beyond. Strongly believe that he and Kelleher could be the start of a new era in Leinster hookers - the end of the "pocket battleship era" - and the commencement of the "cruiser-class equipped with javelin technology".

The downside will be the demise of Cronin and our loss of his extraordinary, explosive ball-carrying. But the fragility of his throwing at big moments (for both Leinster & Ireland) has mot lessened over the years and with what we have available at lineout time, we must give ourselves the option of optimising this strength.
We’ve had quite a few compact hookers alright down through the years. It’s almost automatic. Plenty of guys under 16 stones even.

It’s odd that with so much discussion of size in the pack, bigger hookers hasn’t really been looked at. It also probably doesn’t get enough attention for historical academy output, which does look to be changing. Cronin is like Rory Best, you forget how long he’s been around: 10 years in Leinster at least.

Sheehan will be an interesting one. He’s taller and a bit bigger and probably not an old-school hooker, but there aren’t so many of them around either. Worth the risk if you can get a primary ball carrier. Scrums have been getting less frequent, but lineouts could come back in a big way if new kicking laws take effect.

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

No academy place for Sheehan, John McKee gets in.

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by neiliog93 »

mildlyinterested wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 1:34 pm
No academy place for Sheehan, John McKee gets in.
Seems like a mistake to me.
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

neiliog93 wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 10:11 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 1:34 pm
No academy place for Sheehan, John McKee gets in.
Seems like a mistake to me.
could've made agreat tighthead if he didn't make hooker

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

neiliog93 wrote:
July 15th, 2020, 10:11 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
July 14th, 2020, 1:34 pm
No academy place for Sheehan, John McKee gets in.
Seems like a mistake to me.
I'd have taken Sheehan over McKee, it's a mistake for me.

interesting there was talk that Nucifora blocked them adding McKee last season as it was felt he hadn't done enough..

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Re: Hooker options going forward

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by ronk »

He seems to have filled out

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »


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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

https://www.the42.ie/leinster-dan-sheeh ... 3-Oct2020/

“He is big and very powerful,” says Leinster boss Leo Cullen of Sheehan. “He came into the academy with a little bit of uncertainty, it just shows you. He wouldn’t have been someone who featured massively with the U20s, others would have featured ahead of him.

“He’s applied himself very well. He had clear physical potential but he has definitely joined up a lot of dots. He’s improving his set-piece all the time – a very good thrower of the ball. His scrum bits working with Robin [McBryde, Leinster's scrum coach] are getting better all the time.

“He’s still a young man. We’re delighted how Dan has gone. He has had to bide his time to get his opportunity. He has been a little bit unlucky, came very close on a couple of other occasions but just didn’t get there.

“It’s a big day for him. It just shows you that whatever the pecking order at one moment in time, it’s not going to be the pecking order forever. He’s had work his way through his own age group but then when you get to the senior group as well.”

Cullen also pointed out that Sheehan’s younger brother, Bobby, is an even taller hooker at 6ft 5ins and has been impressing for UCD.

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by Jonny tight lips »

mildlyinterested wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 6:26 am
https://www.the42.ie/leinster-dan-sheeh ... 3-Oct2020/

“He is big and very powerful,” says Leinster boss Leo Cullen of Sheehan. “He came into the academy with a little bit of uncertainty, it just shows you. He wouldn’t have been someone who featured massively with the U20s, others would have featured ahead of him.

“He’s applied himself very well. He had clear physical potential but he has definitely joined up a lot of dots. He’s improving his set-piece all the time – a very good thrower of the ball. His scrum bits working with Robin [McBryde, Leinster's scrum coach] are getting better all the time.

“He’s still a young man. We’re delighted how Dan has gone. He has had to bide his time to get his opportunity. He has been a little bit unlucky, came very close on a couple of other occasions but just didn’t get there.

“It’s a big day for him. It just shows you that whatever the pecking order at one moment in time, it’s not going to be the pecking order forever. He’s had work his way through his own age group but then when you get to the senior group as well.”

Cullen also pointed out that Sheehan’s younger brother, Bobby, is an even taller hooker at 6ft 5ins and has been impressing for UCD.
Really looking forward to seeing him in blue this evening, a good thrower apparently 😃

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

mildlyinterested wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 6:26 am
https://www.the42.ie/leinster-dan-sheeh ... 3-Oct2020/

“He is big and very powerful,” says Leinster boss Leo Cullen of Sheehan. “He came into the academy with a little bit of uncertainty, it just shows you. He wouldn’t have been someone who featured massively with the U20s, others would have featured ahead of him.

“He’s applied himself very well. He had clear physical potential but he has definitely joined up a lot of dots. He’s improving his set-piece all the time – a very good thrower of the ball. His scrum bits working with Robin [McBryde, Leinster's scrum coach] are getting better all the time.

“He’s still a young man. We’re delighted how Dan has gone. He has had to bide his time to get his opportunity. He has been a little bit unlucky, came very close on a couple of other occasions but just didn’t get there.

“It’s a big day for him. It just shows you that whatever the pecking order at one moment in time, it’s not going to be the pecking order forever. He’s had work his way through his own age group but then when you get to the senior group as well.”

Cullen also pointed out that Sheehan’s younger brother, Bobby, is an even taller hooker at 6ft 5ins and has been impressing for UCD.
I've watched some of UCD, bobby seems to be rotating with another hooker.. good athlete for a front row and I'd be interested to see if he could convert to TH. Probably won't happen though.

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by Jonny tight lips »

mildlyinterested wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 7:37 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 6:26 am
https://www.the42.ie/leinster-dan-sheeh ... 3-Oct2020/

“He is big and very powerful,” says Leinster boss Leo Cullen of Sheehan. “He came into the academy with a little bit of uncertainty, it just shows you. He wouldn’t have been someone who featured massively with the U20s, others would have featured ahead of him.

“He’s applied himself very well. He had clear physical potential but he has definitely joined up a lot of dots. He’s improving his set-piece all the time – a very good thrower of the ball. His scrum bits working with Robin [McBryde, Leinster's scrum coach] are getting better all the time.

“He’s still a young man. We’re delighted how Dan has gone. He has had to bide his time to get his opportunity. He has been a little bit unlucky, came very close on a couple of other occasions but just didn’t get there.

“It’s a big day for him. It just shows you that whatever the pecking order at one moment in time, it’s not going to be the pecking order forever. He’s had work his way through his own age group but then when you get to the senior group as well.”

Cullen also pointed out that Sheehan’s younger brother, Bobby, is an even taller hooker at 6ft 5ins and has been impressing for UCD.
I've watched some of UCD, bobby seems to be rotating with another hooker.. good athlete for a front row and I'd be interested to see if he could convert to TH. Probably won't happen though.
If we were to convert him to TH and he showed promise it would probably only be for another provinces benefit with AP, TF and TC at leinster.

With Cronins age and RK set for a big future in green the provinces need as at hooker

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Jonny tight lips wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 10:26 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 7:37 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
October 23rd, 2020, 6:26 am
https://www.the42.ie/leinster-dan-sheeh ... 3-Oct2020/

“He is big and very powerful,” says Leinster boss Leo Cullen of Sheehan. “He came into the academy with a little bit of uncertainty, it just shows you. He wouldn’t have been someone who featured massively with the U20s, others would have featured ahead of him.

“He’s applied himself very well. He had clear physical potential but he has definitely joined up a lot of dots. He’s improving his set-piece all the time – a very good thrower of the ball. His scrum bits working with Robin [McBryde, Leinster's scrum coach] are getting better all the time.

“He’s still a young man. We’re delighted how Dan has gone. He has had to bide his time to get his opportunity. He has been a little bit unlucky, came very close on a couple of other occasions but just didn’t get there.

“It’s a big day for him. It just shows you that whatever the pecking order at one moment in time, it’s not going to be the pecking order forever. He’s had work his way through his own age group but then when you get to the senior group as well.”

Cullen also pointed out that Sheehan’s younger brother, Bobby, is an even taller hooker at 6ft 5ins and has been impressing for UCD.
I've watched some of UCD, bobby seems to be rotating with another hooker.. good athlete for a front row and I'd be interested to see if he could convert to TH. Probably won't happen though.
If we were to convert him to TH and he showed promise it would probably only be for another provinces benefit with AP, TF and TC at leinster.

With Cronins age and RK set for a big future in green the provinces need as at hooker
not so sure about that but it's unlikely to happen anyway.

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by alanair »

Well question in subject line was emphatically addressed tonight Albeit against dubious opposition

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by dropkick »

If Dan Sheehan has solid darts then he will go far. He looks an impressive unit around the pitch and showed nice handling in the loose.

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by Ruckedtobits »

A very decent debut for Sheehan but not every game will be as well set-up for him. He has a lot of skills but he will need to really become a hard-nosed scrumagger to put on the big green jersey. Coaches don't mind a hooker who keeps getting on the score-sheet, but they very rarely select them for that reason.

Coaches at top level pick hookers because they can scrummage and can throw the ball accurately into a line-out, regardless whether they have a strong or weak unit.

Sheehan has shown an appetite for hard work and self-improvement. He and Kelleher could spend a lot of time in associated 2 and 16 jerseys over the next decade if they both focus on continuing that level of workload.

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