Hooker options going forward

[mildlyinterested]

all for the lineout being a contest for possession, still doesn't mean that the skill of lineout throwing should be such a consistent issue for leinster coached hookers.

AS you said Byrne's improvement is nothing short of amazing and points to a flaw in the leinster system.

[Fan with smartphone]

Hand size is a big thing for quarterbacks in American football. Although I think it’s more to do with fumbles and ball protection than throwing accuracy. Sam Darnold’s turnovers were a concern coming out of college and kinda blamed on having not freakishly large hands. Doesn’t help when your teammates are letting people through to smash you though I’d say.

To be fair to the Leinster coaching....the fella that came on for Byrne had a bit of a howler for Bristol with overthrows and he came through their system!

I’d also say that with Bristol, their team probably changes a bit less than with Leinster, so you are establishing relationships and trust a little more than you might here. And we tend to use younger, less established players. I much prefer how we develop players in Ireland compared to how they do it in the prl, but for a skill which is so dependant on the synchronicity and gestalt of all its moving parts - possibly more than any other skill on the pitch - that’s a big deal.

Murray Kinsella had a very good podcast this week on the 42, which included a bit on anonymous posters giving abuse (and made me feel decidedly uncomfortable to be honest), but it was also about Irish players getting loaned out for a change of scenery. Having a fresh start looks like it has really helped Byrne and he’s thriving. It’s a dangerous tap for us to turn on, but Birch certainly advocated for it. I’m not so sure, but it’s hard to argue with this as a test case.

[leinsterforever]

I'm quite skeptical about the value of loans in an Irish context. The ones that have worked out well - Loughman to Munster, Cooney and Roux to Connacht - have involved the initial temporary move being made permanent, so not true loans at all in the end. I'm struggling to think of any player moving province for a period of a year or less and returning and being in a better place than he was before. If someone went on loan his initial team would move on with the next cab off the rank and it would be difficult to get back in. It's a risky career move, so players would almost have to be on the outer before they'd go for it.

[ronk]

Getting cut is motivating. Especially when it involves a move away from your hometown. It’s last chance saloon and there are no distractions and you can’t coast on a reputation, patiently waiting.

[Fan with smartphone]

I'm quite skeptical about the value of loans in an Irish context. The ones that have worked out well - Loughman to Munster, Cooney and Roux to Connacht - have involved the initial temporary move being made permanent, so not true loans at all in the end. I'm struggling to think of any player moving province for a period of a year or less and returning and being in a better place than he was before. If someone went on loan his initial team would move on with the next cab off the rank and it would be difficult to get back in. It's a risky career move, so players would almost have to be on the outer before they'd go for it.

It was more around loans and just moved to England and France. Apologies I didn’t make that clear. Point you made probably still stands though.

[leinsterforever]

You'd probably be talking about third or fourth choice players, so the Championship would probably be a more likely destination for any player who did go on loan, Bryan Byrne situation notwhthstanding. I believe Saracens have an agreement with Bedford for this purpose. I'm not saying it can't be a good option in certain circumstances. I think Paddy Patterson was right to look for a loan move. There seemed to be hardly any prospect of gametime for him here. Stints in NZ and England also worked out pretty well for Thornbury and Tom Farrell respectively. Sometimes a change of scenery is the best thing for a player. I think the NZ option is especially interesting because of their focus on upskilling the individual. The thing is all the examples above had been cut or were likely to be cut at the end of that season. I don't see a Harry Byrne going on loan.

[ronk]

The championship is a meat grinder. The guys who turn it around and reach international panel standard are the ones who take a shot in a well coached outfit. There’s usually an element of different coaching priorities too.

[erskinechilders]

Tadhg McElroy getting a trial with Bristol Bears, excellent move for him and really hope he gets a contract out of it!

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rug ... ng-5133583

[mildlyinterested]

Tadhg McElroy getting a trial with Bristol Bears, excellent move for him and really hope he gets a contract out of it!

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/sport/rug ... ng-5133583

interesting move for him, hope it works out aswell as Bryan Byrnes did.

[mildlyinterested]

ROC on Dan Sheehan:

The rise of the 22-year-old powerhouse hooker is seen as inevitable within the game. It’s only a matter of when, not if, he starts pushing into the Leinster first-team and joining his Lansdowne clubmate Rónan Kelleher in the Irish squad.

Like the Ireland hooker, the Clongowes graduate is a supreme athlete and his 6ft 3ins frame is big for his position; drawing comparisons with Springbok No 2 Malcolm Marx.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 86920.html

[arsebiscuits1]

ROC on Dan Sheehan:

The rise of the 22-year-old powerhouse hooker is seen as inevitable within the game. It’s only a matter of when, not if, he starts pushing into the Leinster first-team and joining his Lansdowne clubmate Rónan Kelleher in the Irish squad.

Like the Ireland hooker, the Clongowes graduate is a supreme athlete and his 6ft 3ins frame is big for his position; drawing comparisons with Springbok No 2 Malcolm Marx.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 86920.html

Ringing endorsement from ROC.

To be fair to Sheehan he fairly chucked himself about the place last week. Made an excellent impact.

Having a genuine power athlete at 2 is something we have been lacking on this isle for a while

[mildlyinterested]

ROC on Dan Sheehan:

The rise of the 22-year-old powerhouse hooker is seen as inevitable within the game. It’s only a matter of when, not if, he starts pushing into the Leinster first-team and joining his Lansdowne clubmate Rónan Kelleher in the Irish squad.

Like the Ireland hooker, the Clongowes graduate is a supreme athlete and his 6ft 3ins frame is big for his position; drawing comparisons with Springbok No 2 Malcolm Marx.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 86920.html

Ringing endorsement from ROC.

To be fair to Sheehan he fairly chucked himself about the place last week. Made an excellent impact.

Having a genuine power athlete at 2 is something we have been lacking on this isle for a while

i'd have Kelleher as a power athlete.

[wixfjord]

Kelleher & Sheahan as a one/two combo is incredible.

If both can tighten the nuts and bolts and stay injury free they'll be our 1 & 16 for the next 10-15 years. Great position to be in.

[mildlyinterested]

Kelleher & Sheahan as a one/two combo is incredible.

If both can tighten the nuts and bolts and stay injury free they'll be our 1 & 16 for the next 10-15 years. Great position to be in.

only issue is availability due to ireland.

Tracy probably stick around for a few more years and then develop another young hooker, unless they look at Bryan Byrne again.

[arsebiscuits1]

i'd have Kelleher as a power athlete.

Oh yeah I meant Kelleher as a given. He's unbelievably athletically gifted.

Before Kelleher came on the scene we really just had grafters in Ireland. Capable all rounders without a notable point of difference - obviously Cronin has his pace but he was never capable of physical dominance.

But the mould of Hooker in Ireland over the last 20 years has definitely gravitated to a type when you look at Best, Scannell, Herring, Sheahan, Flannery, Byrne, Jackman etc.

To have 2 athletes of the physical ability that we now have is great to see and I really hope they both be nurtured into top class set piece operators. Their destruction in open play is already there

[elephantman]

Kelleher & Sheahan as a one/two combo is incredible.

If both can tighten the nuts and bolts and stay injury free they'll be our 1 & 16 for the next 10-15 years. Great position to be in.

As long as Nucifora doesn’t stick his nose in..

[mildlyinterested]

Kelleher & Sheahan as a one/two combo is incredible.

If both can tighten the nuts and bolts and stay injury free they'll be our 1 & 16 for the next 10-15 years. Great position to be in.

As long as Nucifora doesn’t stick his nose in..

almost certain he will, can only hope that the lads tell him no, as Porter has had to many times.

[erskinechilders]

Kelleher & Sheahan as a one/two combo is incredible.

If both can tighten the nuts and bolts and stay injury free they'll be our 1 & 16 for the next 10-15 years. Great position to be in.

As long as Nucifora doesn’t stick his nose in..

almost certain he will, can only hope that the lads tell him no, as Porter has had to many times.

All of the other provinces seem to have exciting prospects coming up at hooker too though. Stewart in Ulster, DTM in Connacht and even Buckley looks like a beast in Munster. I'd be more worried about someone like Barron leaving.

[mildlyinterested]

All of the other provinces seem to have exciting prospects coming up at hooker too though. Stewart in Ulster, DTM in Connacht and even Buckley looks like a beast in Munster. I'd be more worried about someone like Barron leaving.

Ah I wouldn't be at the moment, be nice to see him playing for the 20's.

[Peg Leg]

Kelleher & Sheahan as a one/two combo is incredible.

If both can tighten the nuts and bolts and stay injury free they'll be our 1 & 16 for the next 10-15 years. Great position to be in.

As long as Nucifora doesn’t stick his nose in..

He appears to be using body weight as the trading value between Leinster and Munster. By my reckoning, if we're to keep both of the lads, we'll probably have to calve another couple of scrum halves.