Hooker options going forward

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mildlyinterested
Shane Jennings
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Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Obviously a position going through some transition with an emerging irish international breaking through this past season, a long time squad member leaving and a leinster legend near the midpoint of his 30's.

Ronan Kelleher(22) - 11 caps, signed contract in 2019
Sean Cronin(34) - 181 caps, signed contract in 2020
James Tracy(29) - 108 caps, signed contract in 2020
Dan Sheehan(21) - uncapped, signed contract in 2020

There are currently no hookers projected to be in the academy, when there is a need for at least one given Cronin's age. Candidates for an academy place:

Bobby Sheehan(20) - 6'5, 111kg
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John McKee(20) - 6'0, 103kg
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Lee Barron(19) - 6'3
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McKee looked a decent player for the irish 20's but not sure he looked academy level. Bobby Sheehan didn't get an opportunity for the 20's before covid, he offers rare size at the position. Barron is coming out of school, after being a star for Michaels since JCT level. Has the highest potential of the three listed.

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Shane Jennings
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Dan Sheehan looking more like an old school number 8 than a hooker. :shock:


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Ruckedtobits
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Except when you look at his quads, which rival even Porter. Real power with McBride showing him how to best use them in the scrum.

Really want to see him nail his lineout throwing to 5, 6, 7 and beyond. Strongly believe that he and Kelleher could be the start of a new era in Leinster hookers - the end of the "pocket battleship era" - and the commencement of the "cruiser-class equipped with javelin technology".

The downside will be the demise of Cronin and our loss of his extraordinary, explosive ball-carrying. But the fragility of his throwing at big moments (for both Leinster & Ireland) has mot lessened over the years and with what we have available at lineout time, we must give ourselves the option of optimising this strength.

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johng
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by johng »

Interesting set of options.

Eoghan Clarke went to Munster possibly as he would have been trapped behind Kelleher. This brought Dan Sheehan in to the picture. He seems to be very highly thought of and now has a full contract out of second year in the academy.

Little (in age anyway) brother Bobby looks more suited to being a blindside given his height than a hooker.

Lee Baron I haven't seen play but he is very young. Given the stats above he is also 6'3" like Dan Sheehan. Very tall for the position

McKee is a rare one. An Ulster lad coming south to try and get into academy rather than the opposite. Out of him Barron and the 2 Shehans he is the only one of the 4 under 6'3" :shock:

Given that there are 2 senior highly thought of hookers under 23 with a full contract they might go straight to Barron if he is as good as you say or even put him in the sub and give McKee a year in A rugby to see if he sinks or swims.

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Shane Jennings
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Barron is around 6'2 to 6'3, not sure exactly.

Bobby has only played hooker, so can't see a move to 6 happening.. I'd say the most like he and McKee will not make the academy and Barron will join next summer. But that's just a guess.

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by Ruckedtobits »

Double post

Theleinsterlad
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by Theleinsterlad »

Seen Sheehan play a couple of times and to say I’m excited to see what he can do at full senior level is an understatement. He is a massive unit and shocked me the first time when I realised he was a hooker and not a no.8. That being said everything he does from hits to runs in open play are no8esque and he will be a whole new dimension for teams to face in years to come.

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johng
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by johng »

Indeed. I watched bim in all his home A games last season when he was banging in tries for fun.

Ain't it funny that we have had a hooker who was a barnstorming centre for many years and now we have one who is a barnstorming number 8. In his early games he was getting hosed in tbe scrums and his height could work against him there. But he seems to have learned how to harness his power there a bit better

Ahead of him Kelleher looks to the Manor born. A front row david Wallace (ok his big brother is also a winger) making him a cross between Paul and David i suppose.

Happy days.

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neiliog93
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by neiliog93 »

If Barron and Dan Sheahan are the better prospects at hooker, and Bobby Sheahan may find it difficult to transition to 6, I wonder could we mould him into a very tall, athletic prop, like Jager, Hayman, Tu'ungafasi, Ta'avao, etc.?
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

neiliog93 wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 12:54 am
If Barron and Dan Sheahan are the better prospects at hooker, and Bobby Sheahan may find it difficult to transition to 6, I wonder could we mould him into a very tall, athletic prop, like Jager, Hayman, Tu'ungafasi, Ta'avao, etc.?
interesting idea but can't see it happening myself.

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by Theleinsterlad »

mildlyinterested wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 7:46 am
neiliog93 wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 12:54 am
If Barron and Dan Sheahan are the better prospects at hooker, and Bobby Sheahan may find it difficult to transition to 6, I wonder could we mould him into a very tall, athletic prop, like Jager, Hayman, Tu'ungafasi, Ta'avao, etc.?
interesting idea but can't see it happening myself.
One thing changing a loose head to tight head but changing someone to prop from fresh is too tall an order at professional level in my view

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Oldschoolsocks
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

Theleinsterlad wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 8:59 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 7:46 am
neiliog93 wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 12:54 am
If Barron and Dan Sheahan are the better prospects at hooker, and Bobby Sheahan may find it difficult to transition to 6, I wonder could we mould him into a very tall, athletic prop, like Jager, Hayman, Tu'ungafasi, Ta'avao, etc.?
interesting idea but can't see it happening myself.
One thing changing a loose head to tight head but changing someone to prop from fresh is too tall an order at professional level in my view
John Smit ?

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Shane Jennings
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

Oldschoolsocks wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 9:11 am
Theleinsterlad wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 8:59 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 7:46 am


interesting idea but can't see it happening myself.
One thing changing a loose head to tight head but changing someone to prop from fresh is too tall an order at professional level in my view
John Smit ?
different era, had experience of playing prop at underage and was a remarkable rugby player. don't think it's a fair comparison to say because Smit did it, bobby could be able to.

it's like when people point to Brad Thorne or Alyn Wyn Jones when a 2nd row coming through the system isn't the tallest. :lol:

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by FLIP »

Theleinsterlad wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 8:59 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 7:46 am
neiliog93 wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 12:54 am
If Barron and Dan Sheahan are the better prospects at hooker, and Bobby Sheahan may find it difficult to transition to 6, I wonder could we mould him into a very tall, athletic prop, like Jager, Hayman, Tu'ungafasi, Ta'avao, etc.?
interesting idea but can't see it happening myself.
One thing changing a loose head to tight head but changing someone to prop from fresh is too tall an order at professional level in my view
I disagree with this. Propping isn't some magical world where you have to have worked in the dark for years to come good, it can be taught and learned quickly with the right coaching. Most of the "dark arts" are actually blatant cheating completely missed by referees because of incompetence, not cleverness.

I feel moving to hooker would actually be a harder task.
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johng
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by johng »

Ah it's never going to happen. Just interesting speculation on a forum. He is too tall for a prop and probably the wrong body shape and has never played there. etc. etc. I reckon blindside would be an easier transition tbh.

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

FLIP wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 9:36 am
Theleinsterlad wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 8:59 am
mildlyinterested wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 7:46 am


interesting idea but can't see it happening myself.
One thing changing a loose head to tight head but changing someone to prop from fresh is too tall an order at professional level in my view
I disagree with this. Propping isn't some magical world where you have to have worked in the dark for years to come good, it can be taught and learned quickly with the right coaching. Most of the "dark arts" are actually blatant cheating completely missed by referees because of incompetence, not cleverness.

I feel moving to hooker would actually be a harder task.
Can it? How does that explain the utter lack of young props developed by anyone other than leinster the past decade?

I'd say it would be a very big task to covert someone who has only ever played hooker to prop than someone who has only ever played prop to hooker... plenty of examples of the latter, not many of the former.

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Shane Jennings
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

johng wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 9:51 am
Ah it's never going to happen. Just interesting speculation on a forum. He is too tall for a prop and probably the wrong body shape and has never played there. etc. etc. I reckon blindside would be an easier transition tbh.
i'm sure he could convert to 6 and play AIL, doubt he could go higher than that.

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Shane Jennings
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

interesting to see Tadgh McElroy move to Lansdowne from Clontarf.

the last two 1st choice hookers for Lansdowne earned a leinster contract - Ronan Kelleher & Dan Sheehan.

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Shane Jennings
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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by mildlyinterested »

There are probably 5/6 notable hookers between U21 and U20 going into next season:

John McKee(Campbell/Old Belvedere/U21)
Bobby Sheehan(Clongowes/UCD/U21)
Ronan Loughnane(Birr RFC-Roscrea/UCD/U20)
Levi Vaughan(Terenure/Terenure/U20)
Lee Barron(St. Michaels/U20)
Callum Dowling(Clongowes/U20)

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Re: Hooker options going forward

Post by Oldschoolsocks »

mildlyinterested wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 9:22 am
Oldschoolsocks wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 9:11 am
Theleinsterlad wrote:
July 10th, 2020, 8:59 am


One thing changing a loose head to tight head but changing someone to prop from fresh is too tall an order at professional level in my view
John Smit ?
different era, had experience of playing prop at underage and was a remarkable rugby player. don't think it's a fair comparison to say because Smit did it, bobby could be able to.

it's like when people point to Brad Thorne or Alyn Wyn Jones when a 2nd row coming through the system isn't the tallest. :lol:
you know what really adds to a discussion? lots and lots of laughy faces :lol: :lol: :lol:

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