Leinster Squad 20-21

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OTT
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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by OTT »

Ross Byrne has won 11 caps for Ireland.

He has played 296 minutes of international rugby (So just over 3 &1/2 full games).

Ireland have won 7 of the 11 games he has been involved in.

He has started 2 of the 11 games both against England.

Of the 4 defeats 3 of them have been against England (2 starts and 1 sub) and 1 against France in Paris back in October (sub appearance).

137 of his 296 test minutes (nearly half) have come against England.

To be fair to the guy if we are going to call time on his Test Career because this is evidence he lacks the necessary ability off the back of these games I think we can retire an awful lot more senior players (probably most of the packs that got bullied to shite against England in each of those games).

He’s unproven at test level for sure but I personally wouldn’t swap him for any of the starters at the other 3 provinces (ie Hanrahan, Burns or Carty) for Leinster. I think he’s so underrated which is great news for us because the other provinces leave him alone and he can continue to march us to victory after victory.

Edit: the post is not directed at any particular post it’s more trying to level the playing field when rating Ross Byrne against his contemporaries. His body of work for Leinster is better than the other lads for their Provinces and his test ability is at best unknown. You could have the most athletic 10 in the world but he’s in for a long day if your pack don’t win any scrums or lineout sand gets beaten back at nearly every breakdown.
Last edited by OTT on February 5th, 2021, 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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wixfjord
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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by wixfjord »

OTT wrote:
February 5th, 2021, 5:11 pm
Ross Byrne has won 11 caps for Ireland.

He has played 296 minutes of international rugby (So just over 3 &1/2 full games).

Ireland have won 7 of the 11 games he has been involved in.

He has started 2 of the 11 games both against England.

Of the 4 defeats 3 of them have been against England (2 starts and 1 sub) and 1 against France in Paris back in October (sub appearance).

137 of his 296 test minutes (nearly half) have come against England.

To be fair to the guy if we are going to call time on his Test Career because this is evidence he lacks the necessary ability off the back of these games I think we can retire an awful lot more senior players (probably most of the packs that got bullied to shite against England in each of those games).

He’s unproven at test level for sure but I personally wouldn’t swap him for any of the starters at the other 3 provinces (ie Hanrahan, Burns or Carty) for Leinster. I think he’s so underrated which is great news for us because the other provinces leave him alone and he can continue to march us to victory after victory.

Nobody is 'calling time on his test career'. That's a good chunk of hyperbole there!

And I agree, I wouldn't swap him for either of those three at Leinster level.

That doesn't mean he's good enough to be in the 23, and he clearly he has some issues in his game that hamper him at the highest level.

These issues aren't as big a deal at a lower level in a side that's generally better than the team it's playing against.

They become a much bigger deal at test level when you've less time and need to offer more of a threat or attacking diversity to open up a defence.

He has tended to look a bit 'rabbit in headlights' and retreat into deep positions when he has come under pressure which has really limited our attack.

So to simplify, he's one of the three 'second tier' outhalf options we have who are probably not going to be a long term answer and aren't pushing ahead of each other, while staying just ahead of some young tyros who look like they have more a bit more about them.

Keith
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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by Keith »

wixfjord wrote:
February 5th, 2021, 5:56 pm
OTT wrote:
February 5th, 2021, 5:11 pm
Ross Byrne has won 11 caps for Ireland.

He has played 296 minutes of international rugby (So just over 3 &1/2 full games).

Ireland have won 7 of the 11 games he has been involved in.

He has started 2 of the 11 games both against England.

Of the 4 defeats 3 of them have been against England (2 starts and 1 sub) and 1 against France in Paris back in October (sub appearance).

137 of his 296 test minutes (nearly half) have come against England.

To be fair to the guy if we are going to call time on his Test Career because this is evidence he lacks the necessary ability off the back of these games I think we can retire an awful lot more senior players (probably most of the packs that got bullied to shite against England in each of those games).

He’s unproven at test level for sure but I personally wouldn’t swap him for any of the starters at the other 3 provinces (ie Hanrahan, Burns or Carty) for Leinster. I think he’s so underrated which is great news for us because the other provinces leave him alone and he can continue to march us to victory after victory.

Nobody is 'calling time on his test career'. That's a good chunk of hyperbole there!

And I agree, I wouldn't swap him for either of those three at Leinster level.

That doesn't mean he's good enough to be in the 23, and he clearly he has some issues in his game that hamper him at the highest level.

These issues aren't as big a deal at a lower level in a side that's generally better than the team it's playing against.

They become a much bigger deal at test level when you've less time and need to offer more of a threat or attacking diversity to open up a defence.

He has tended to look a bit 'rabbit in headlights' and retreat into deep positions when he has come under pressure which has really limited our attack.

So to simplify, he's one of the three 'second tier' outhalf options we have who are probably not going to be a long term answer and aren't pushing ahead of each other, while staying just ahead of some young tyros who look like they have more a bit more about them.
I'm a huge fan of Byrne so I'm biased, but isn't that kind of what happens when your pack is completely outplayed and outmuscled though? Every FH in the world would have struggled in those two games he started, let alone somebody just stepping into the international arena. He really should have been given a start against Wales in November so we could better gauge where he is at and to potentially give him a bit of confidence in the green jersey.

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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by wixfjord »

Keith wrote:
February 5th, 2021, 6:20 pm

I'm a huge fan of Byrne so I'm biased, but isn't that kind of what happens when your pack is completely outplayed and outmuscled though? Every FH in the world would have struggled in those two games he started, let alone somebody just stepping into the international arena. He really should have been given a start against Wales in November so we could better gauge where he is at and to potentially give him a bit of confidence in the green jersey.
Like I'm also a big fan of Ross, don't get me wrong! I've consistently said I'd start him ahead of Joey for Leinster and that he's very underrated generally.

And I'm absolutely not writing him off.

But in both of those games, irrespective of the pack issues, he stood way to deep and shovelled on pressure, offering no attacking outlet himself.

It's a small sample size, but it does sort of support the theory that he doesn't have the athleticism or attacking game to make it at test level.

mildlyinterested
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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by mildlyinterested »

Ireland number eight Caelan Doris will travel to Birmingham this week to see a neurologist for his ongoing issues around concussion, it is understood.

Doris was released from the Ireland camp last week after a full contact session with Ulster in Abbotstown, part of the squad's preparation for today's Six Nations opener with Wales in Cardiff.

An IRFU statement at the time said: "Caelan has flagged some symptoms that could be associated with concussion. He has returned to Leinster to allow his symptoms to be appropriately assessed and investigated."

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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by LeinsterLeader »

mildlyinterested wrote:
February 7th, 2021, 10:59 am
Ireland number eight Caelan Doris will travel to Birmingham this week to see a neurologist for his ongoing issues around concussion, it is understood.

Doris was released from the Ireland camp last week after a full contact session with Ulster in Abbotstown, part of the squad's preparation for today's Six Nations opener with Wales in Cardiff.

An IRFU statement at the time said: "Caelan has flagged some symptoms that could be associated with concussion. He has returned to Leinster to allow his symptoms to be appropriately assessed and investigated."
Does not sound good at all :(

mildlyinterested
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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by mildlyinterested »

I'd imagine his season is over at the very least. No point taking any risks with it.

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munster#1
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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by munster#1 »

Not a great bit of news to read. Doris looks like he could go on to be one of Ireland’s all time greats.

Great to hear that every precaution is being taken, but never a good thing when it involves concussion, especially when he is getting concussion like symptoms with no clear incident being identified.

Hopefully it’s a case that he can take an extended break from the game and make a full recovery.

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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by IanD »

mildlyinterested wrote:
February 7th, 2021, 10:59 am
Ireland number eight Caelan Doris will travel to Birmingham this week to see a neurologist for his ongoing issues around concussion, it is understood.

Doris was released from the Ireland camp last week after a full contact session with Ulster in Abbotstown, part of the squad's preparation for today's Six Nations opener with Wales in Cardiff.

An IRFU statement at the time said: "Caelan has flagged some symptoms that could be associated with concussion. He has returned to Leinster to allow his symptoms to be appropriately assessed and investigated."
For the love of all that is holy and unholy would you please provide a link to original story.

Unless of course you personally have actually written this piece and had it published elsewhere.
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ronk
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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by ronk »

I sometimes prefer when player health data is private rather than panic. This could be a sensible precaution.

Jcahill1
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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by Jcahill1 »

It's on the independent, not much more information provided.
https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/ ... 60584.html

wixfjord
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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by wixfjord »

-

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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by Xanthippe »

IanD wrote:
February 7th, 2021, 12:16 pm
mildlyinterested wrote:
February 7th, 2021, 10:59 am
Ireland number eight Caelan Doris will travel to Birmingham this week to see a neurologist for his ongoing issues around concussion, it is understood.

Doris was released from the Ireland camp last week after a full contact session with Ulster in Abbotstown, part of the squad's preparation for today's Six Nations opener with Wales in Cardiff.

An IRFU statement at the time said: "Caelan has flagged some symptoms that could be associated with concussion. He has returned to Leinster to allow his symptoms to be appropriately assessed and investigated."
For the love of all that is holy and unholy would you please provide a link to original story.

Unless of course you personally have actually written this piece and had it published elsewhere.
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EnergiaPark70
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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by EnergiaPark70 »

Robbie Henshaw seems a bit slimmer then previous years and paying dividends. More agile and affective

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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by Serb »

Yeah, some really good performances from Leinster players yesterday, despite the result. Henshaw was probably Ireland’s best player, Lowe and Keenan were both excellent for me too.

Lowe’s clearance kick from the restart which I believe led to Ireland’s try was one of the best I’ve ever seen. Got about 60m on it. His carrying and running threat was also excellent. He made at least 115 meters in the game depending on what stats you look at. He’s a guy who will always prove divisive in Ireland colours because of where he was born and the fact that Munster fans hate him, but I think he’s the country’s best winger now.

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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by Jcahill1 »

Serb wrote:
February 8th, 2021, 12:09 pm
Yeah, some really good performances from Leinster players yesterday, despite the result. Henshaw was probably Ireland’s best player, Lowe and Keenan were both excellent for me too.

Lowe’s clearance kick from the restart which I believe led to Ireland’s try was one of the best I’ve ever seen. Got about 60m on it. His carrying and running threat was also excellent. He made at least 115 meters in the game depending on what stats you look at. He’s a guy who will always prove divisive in Ireland colours because of where he was born and the fact that Munster fans hate him, but I think he’s the country’s best winger now.
I do think he could potentially be even more effective if he trimmed down a little, can look a little flat footed at times compared to when he arrived. The kicking is so valuable though, Wales clearly avoided kicking off to that side in the second half.

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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by wixfjord »

Keenan was massively impressive.

Thought J Lowe was mixed. Some incredible kicking and made a few good breaks, but defensively he was found out again.

2 or 3 times he did the same thing he was doing when he started in blue, coming off the wing to try take a man that was covered and leaving space on the outside.

We should definitely be using his and JOB's left boots more in blue btw. Adds a great second kicking option.

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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by Serb »

I though Lowe was decent in defence, wouldn’t agree he got found out or anything like that.

If you’re referring to North’s try, I mean that was a try no matter what. I’d put more blame on Ringrose throwing the wild offload 30m from his own line for that one, we were always going to struggle defensively in scenarios like that with a man down.

I would have preferred to see Lowe make the tackle rather than try and anticipate the pass, but if he did that the narrative would have been, “Lowe bites in again, North was covered by Beirne and Henderson”. He’s still judged by standards that just aren’t true any more, and some people will blame him no matter what he does.

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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by wixfjord »

Serb wrote:
February 8th, 2021, 5:45 pm
I though Lowe was decent in defence, wouldn’t agree he got found out or anything like that.

If you’re referring to North’s try, I mean that was a try no matter what. I’d put more blame on Ringrose throwing the wild offload 30m from his own line for that one, we were always going to struggle defensively in scenarios like that with a man down.

I would have preferred to see Lowe make the tackle rather than try and anticipate the pass, but if he did that the narrative would have been, “Lowe bites in again, North was covered by Beirne and Henderson”. He’s still judged by standards that just aren’t true any more, and some people will blame him no matter what he does.
Got caught defensively for both tries. Second one was particularly poor and something he has done before.

And I mean he was poor against England for that May try too. So there's certainly some truth to his 'standards'.

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Re: Leinster Squad 20-21

Post by alanair »

Serb wrote:
February 8th, 2021, 5:45 pm
I though Lowe was decent in defence, wouldn’t agree he got found out or anything like that.

If you’re referring to North’s try, I mean that was a try no matter what. I’d put more blame on Ringrose throwing the wild offload 30m from his own line for that one, we were always going to struggle defensively in scenarios like that with a man down.

I would have preferred to see Lowe make the tackle rather than try and anticipate the pass, but if he did that the narrative would have been, “Lowe bites in again, North was covered by Beirne and Henderson”. He’s still judged by standards that just aren’t true any more, and some people will blame him no matter what he does.

Yes , but If POM. Hadn’t been sent off, Henshaw would not have been packed down at wing forward in the scrum, so Ringrose would not then have been first receiver... ( he’s def a 13 , not a 12) .... so Henshaw would have done what he did so well for all the rest of the match and NOT got turned over in possession .... so , it’s all back down to POM really...

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