Leinster Squad 20-21

[Jonny tight lips]

Strange move if true, especially with Casey after making the step up to international rugby, which could mean that Nick could find himself as Munster’s starting scrum half for large portions of the season.

His move to Munster did not work how he would have hoped, which is unfortunate for him.
But for Casey’s breakthrough, Nick would have been Munster’s second choice, which is likely what he would have targeted on leaving Leinster.

As a Munster fan I will be sad to see him go, he looks like a very talented player, and he will leave a large gap in the Munster squad.

I think his move made sense until the AM contract extensions which left him where he was with us, then Casey came through when Alby left. To be honest whenever I’ve seen him play for you he hasn’t shone but I don’t watch all your games in fairness.what have you made of him?

[Jonny tight lips]

Possible scrumhalf options next season:

Jamison Gibson Park(29)
Luke McGrath(28)
Nick McCarthy(26)
Hugh O'Sullivan(23)
Cormac Foley(21) - Academy Y3
*incoming academy scrumhalf*

Rowan Osbourne ... I guess not

[mildlyinterested]

Possible scrumhalf options next season:

Jamison Gibson Park(29)
Luke McGrath(28)
Nick McCarthy(26)
Hugh O'Sullivan(23)
Cormac Foley(21) - Academy Y3
*incoming academy scrumhalf*

Rowan Osbourne ... I guess not

Youd have to say it doesn't look likely

[Xanthippe]

Possible scrumhalf options next season:

Jamison Gibson Park(29)
Luke McGrath(28)
Nick McCarthy(26)
Hugh O'Sullivan(23)
Cormac Foley(21) - Academy Y3
*incoming academy scrumhalf*

I’d be worried that we’re seeing the IRFU interfering at Leinster again. Could the rumours of Cooney to France be true and IRFU are putting wheels in motion to get JGP or McGrath north of the border

[munster#1]

Possible scrumhalf options next season:

Jamison Gibson Park(29)
Luke McGrath(28)
Nick McCarthy(26)
Hugh O'Sullivan(23)
Cormac Foley(21) - Academy Y3
*incoming academy scrumhalf*

I’d be worried that we’re seeing the IRFU interfering at Leinster again. Could the rumours of Cooney to France be true and IRFU are putting wheels in motion to get JGP or McGrath north of the border

I can’t see that happen to be honest.
Neither player is likely to become first choice for Ireland any time soon, and given that they are both moving into the final stages of their respective careers, it’s not like one is holding the other back.

It would make more sense to have ulster retain Alby and have him assist with youth development.

[hugonaut]

Bizarre stuff.

He has basically wasted a few years of his career.

Good to have him back though, he'll be a clear third choice for us.

Assume that means at least two of HOS, PP and Osborne will go, if not all three.

That's the practical reality of it. It was a dead end move for him – the constant re-signings of Alby Mathewson hampered his development and the emergence of Craig Casey basically killed off the future he thought he might have in Munster. You get the feeling that it actually doesn't matter how well McCarthy plays: Murray is immovable and Casey has all the momentum behind him.

Nick is a good player, but he made a career decision which backfired on him. It seemed that there was a hole in the Munster depth chart at scrum-half behind Murray. At the time, it looked like he would only have to beat Duncan Williams [close to retirement], Neil Cronin [who had been drafted in from Garryowen] and James Hart [very much a fringe player] for the role of Murray's understudy.

McCarthy would [and did] clearly back himself to push past those guys. And to an extent he did, but the goalposts changed. It's another sign that the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence for other Leinster players, which is a positive from our point of view.

From my perspective, I think it's good to have him back. He's a really bright guy who was voted in by his peers as Irish U20s captain, and he didn't burn any bridges with Leinster when he left. He thought he saw an opportunity to play more often, he was straight up about it, but it didn't pan out. He will have a little bit of a chip on his shoulder that should motivate him.

With regards to his abilities, he has an outstanding age-grade pedigree – he was the Irish U20s scrum-half for two years and won 18 caps [16+2], playing in all but two games over four seasons. It's a stellar age-grade record by any standard and looks even better compared with the competition. His return should allow us to tidy up our scrum-half stocks really efficiently.

[Ruckedtobits]

Bizarre stuff.

He has basically wasted a few years of his career.

Good to have him back though, he'll be a clear third choice for us.

Assume that means at least two of HOS, PP and Osborne will go, if not all three.

That's the practical reality of it. It was a dead end move for him – the constant re-signings of Alby Mathewson hampered his development and the emergence of Craig Casey basically killed off the future he thought he might have in Munster. You get the feeling that it actually doesn't matter how well McCarthy plays: Murray is immovable and Casey has all the momentum behind him.

Nick is a good player, but he made a career decision which backfired on him. It seemed that there was a hole in the Munster depth chart at scrum-half behind Murray. At the time, it looked like he would only have to beat Duncan Williams [close to retirement], Neil Cronin [who had been drafted in from Garryowen] and James Hart [very much a fringe player] for the role of Murray's understudy.

McCarthy would [and did] clearly back himself to push past those guys. And to an extent he did, but the goalposts changed. It's another sign that the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence for other Leinster players, which is a positive from our point of view.

From my perspective, I think it's good to have him back. He's a really bright guy who was voted in by his peers as Irish U20s captain, and he didn't burn any bridges with Leinster when he left. He thought he saw an opportunity to play more often, he was straight up about it, but it didn't pan out. He will have a little bit of a chip on his shoulder that should motivate him.

With regards to his abilities, he has an outstanding age-grade pedigree – he was the Irish U20s scrum-half for two years and won 18 caps [16+2], playing in all but two games over four seasons. It's a stellar age-grade record by any standard and looks even better compared with the competition. His return should allow us to tidy up our scrum-half stocks really efficiently.

+1
Although its obvious that Nick didn't make his decision this weekend, the evidence of the Munster game versus Benetton and Leinster v Scarlets was clear. If you're only likely to make selection in the level two games - either starting or benching - the Province you'd like to do it with is the one with the better Squad and better coaching. The fact that it's also your home Province makes it a slam dunk decision.

Nick is a smart player and good leader. At this point in his career, and certainly based on his recent performances, he'll be a regular bench option for Leinster and the improved speed and quality of his passing will make him a valuable player for Leinster.

Not good news for the younger guys listed on this thread but a good acquisition IMO.

[Peg Leg]

Facts about David Hawkshaw that are really impressive:
On his performance against Connacht while he was on for 23 minutes he had better stats than all the other players on the pitch that night even though he was only on for 23 minutes. Metres made: 65
Carries: 6
Defenders beaten: 8
1 clean break
Tackles: 8
Next game he plays against Scarlets he played 9 minutes and makes a turn over, scores 1 try and gained 36 metres which is more than Ciaran Frawley who played 71 minutes.
Maybe it’s time he deserves a start at 12? Can’t see any reason why he doesn’t deserve a start.

Thanks David

[arsebiscuits1]

Possible scrumhalf options next season:

Jamison Gibson Park(29)
Luke McGrath(28)
Nick McCarthy(26)
Hugh O'Sullivan(23)
Cormac Foley(21) - Academy Y3
*incoming academy scrumhalf*

I’d be worried that we’re seeing the IRFU interfering at Leinster again. Could the rumours of Cooney to France be true and IRFU are putting wheels in motion to get JGP or McGrath north of the border

Casey or Blade would be a much better option for Ulster if Cooney left tomorrow.

They could keep Matthewson while Doak developed and then have them fight it out

[D4surfer]

Bizarre stuff.

He has basically wasted a few years of his career.

Good to have him back though, he'll be a clear third choice for us.

Assume that means at least two of HOS, PP and Osborne will go, if not all three.

That's the practical reality of it. It was a dead end move for him – the constant re-signings of Alby Mathewson hampered his development and the emergence of Craig Casey basically killed off the future he thought he might have in Munster. You get the feeling that it actually doesn't matter how well McCarthy plays: Murray is immovable and Casey has all the momentum behind him.

Nick is a good player, but he made a career decision which backfired on him. It seemed that there was a hole in the Munster depth chart at scrum-half behind Murray. At the time, it looked like he would only have to beat Duncan Williams [close to retirement], Neil Cronin [who had been drafted in from Garryowen] and James Hart [very much a fringe player] for the role of Murray's understudy.

McCarthy would [and did] clearly back himself to push past those guys. And to an extent he did, but the goalposts changed. It's another sign that the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence for other Leinster players, which is a positive from our point of view.

From my perspective, I think it's good to have him back. He's a really bright guy who was voted in by his peers as Irish U20s captain, and he didn't burn any bridges with Leinster when he left. He thought he saw an opportunity to play more often, he was straight up about it, but it didn't pan out. He will have a little bit of a chip on his shoulder that should motivate him.

With regards to his abilities, he has an outstanding age-grade pedigree – he was the Irish U20s scrum-half for two years and won 18 caps [16+2], playing in all but two games over four seasons. It's a stellar age-grade record by any standard and looks even better compared with the competition. His return should allow us to tidy up our scrum-half stocks really efficiently.

+1
Although its obvious that Nick didn't make his decision this weekend, the evidence of the Munster game versus Benetton and Leinster v Scarlets was clear. If you're only likely to make selection in the level two games - either starting or benching - the Province you'd like to do it with is the one with the better Squad and better coaching. The fact that it's also your home Province makes it a slam dunk decision.

Nick is a smart player and good leader. At this point in his career, and certainly based on his recent performances, he'll be a regular bench option for Leinster and the improved speed and quality of his passing will make him a valuable player for Leinster.

Not good news for the younger guys listed on this thread but a good acquisition IMO.

Nick is a confidence player. I think he feels the same love in Munster that Keatley did. He looks unsure and hesitant.

[joooooe]

Possible scrumhalf options next season:

Jamison Gibson Park(29)
Luke McGrath(28)
Nick McCarthy(26)
Hugh O'Sullivan(23)
Cormac Foley(21) - Academy Y3
*incoming academy scrumhalf*

I’d be worried that we’re seeing the IRFU interfering at Leinster again. Could the rumours of Cooney to France be true and IRFU are putting wheels in motion to get JGP or McGrath north of the border

Casey or Blade would be a much better option for Ulster if Cooney left tomorrow.

They could keep Matthewson while Doak developed and then have them fight it out

Don't be ridiculous. Casey can't leave Munster! That would amount to a player leaving his home province: a half back; second choice in his preferred position at provincial level but getting plenty of minutes; mid-contract; new to to the international scene; and whom the coaches have stated is part of their succession plans. That simply does not happen in Irish rugby...unless the receiving province is Munster.

[Oldschoolsocks]

Facts about David Hawkshaw that are really impressive:
On his performance against Connacht while he was on for 23 minutes he had better stats than all the other players on the pitch that night even though he was only on for 23 minutes. Metres made: 65
Carries: 6
Defenders beaten: 8
1 clean break
Tackles: 8
Next game he plays against Scarlets he played 9 minutes and makes a turn over, scores 1 try and gained 36 metres which is more than Ciaran Frawley who played 71 minutes.
Maybe it’s time he deserves a start at 12? Can’t see any reason why he doesn’t deserve a start.

Thanks David

Cynic

[riocard911]

Bizarre stuff.

He has basically wasted a few years of his career.

Good to have him back though, he'll be a clear third choice for us.

Assume that means at least two of HOS, PP and Osborne will go, if not all three.

That's the practical reality of it. It was a dead end move for him – the constant re-signings of Alby Mathewson hampered his development and the emergence of Craig Casey basically killed off the future he thought he might have in Munster. You get the feeling that it actually doesn't matter how well McCarthy plays: Murray is immovable and Casey has all the momentum behind him.

Nick is a good player, but he made a career decision which backfired on him. It seemed that there was a hole in the Munster depth chart at scrum-half behind Murray. At the time, it looked like he would only have to beat Duncan Williams [close to retirement], Neil Cronin [who had been drafted in from Garryowen] and James Hart [very much a fringe player] for the role of Murray's understudy.

McCarthy would [and did] clearly back himself to push past those guys. And to an extent he did, but the goalposts changed. It's another sign that the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence for other Leinster players, which is a positive from our point of view.

From my perspective, I think it's good to have him back. He's a really bright guy who was voted in by his peers as Irish U20s captain, and he didn't burn any bridges with Leinster when he left. He thought he saw an opportunity to play more often, he was straight up about it, but it didn't pan out. He will have a little bit of a chip on his shoulder that should motivate him.

With regards to his abilities, he has an outstanding age-grade pedigree – he was the Irish U20s scrum-half for two years and won 18 caps [16+2], playing in all but two games over four seasons. It's a stellar age-grade record by any standard and looks even better compared with the competition. His return should allow us to tidy up our scrum-half stocks really efficiently.

Good summary. My feelings also. Go n-éirí an t-ádh leis!!!

[LeRouxIsPHat]

I don't think it was a bad move at the time but it was clear very early on that the management didn't trust him, especially when Cronin was parachuted in ahead of him, so I think it makes a lot of sense for him to leave now. He was in a tricky situation tbf to him but I'd like to know how aware he was of Casey (I can't remember the timing of when he moved and when the U20 6N was on) because anyone who saw him play in that Grand Slam team would have known that he was going to break through very quickly and you'd imagine agents/coaches would have known that in advance of Nick signing. For me he's the kind of player that illustrates the need for a link with London Irish. He'd have got lots of game time and they'd have got a good player, win win.

I'm really happy he's back. I'm a bit of a broken record on here saying that I think he's a real talent but clearly he hasn't delivered on it yet and this is last chance saloon. I still believe that he's a real all rounder. Technically he's a really good passer, kicker, and defender, as well as being extremely vocal and not afraid to have a snipe. Watching him on Saturday reminded me of Cooney when he was here, technically good but not sharp enough (he gets charged down a lot) and often forgetting to play the game in front of him, like when a scrum wheeled to the right in the Munster 22 and instead of breaking/passing left when the Benetton back row were totally out of the game, he stuck with the move that was called and went right into a lot of trouble and Munster messed it up. IMO he doesn't do that if he has more game time under his belt and knows the coaches believe in him.

Even if he doesn't realise his potential I still think he's an upgrade on our third choice options. It'll be interesting to see what difference the new league format will have on selection though, very hard to know at this point.

[Lock9541]

Is Osborne the first player to make his debut while still being in the sub academy?

[mildlyinterested]

Is Osborne the first player to make his debut while still being in the sub academy?

No, Adam Byrne did 8 years ago.

[LeinsterLeader]

Doris has been returned to Leinster to asses symptoms of Concussion apparently.

Will not be involved against Wales

[Jcahill1]

Doris has been returned to Leinster to asses symptoms of Concussion apparently.

Will not be involved against Wales

Terrible news

[wixfjord]

That's a bit worrying on Doris, particularly in the current climate.

[mildlyinterested]

Hopefully it's just precautionary given his recent record.. but very worrying for him.