Leinster Squad 20-21

[riocard911]

Is David Nucifora posting on here under an alias to soften us up before another raid?

It's Wixfjord, innit.

Deeeeep cover

Touché!!!

[ronk]

No doubt Leinster have the largest wage bill but they surely take in considerably more than the other provinces which I'd like to think would be taken into account

From my experience of working with businesses in a financial crisis, all that is taken into consideration is the bottom line.

Right now the IRFU are running at a loss, and this loss is likely to be present for much of the next 24 months and maybe beyond as all cash reserves will be used.

The IRFU are in survival mode, and all 4 provinces are currently brining in a fairly equal income, so out outgoings are all that will be looked at for the time being.

I do not have the figures, but I see some posters on here are touted as being the all seeing eye, so perhaps they can answer this, but I would suspect that Leinster have a wage bill close to 1.5m-2.5m more than the other 3 provinces.

Fans need to get it into their heads that this is all about short term survival, and not about one of the provinces winning the HC.

The bigger threat to rugby is that fans don’t come back when this is past. There need to be cuts now, but there also needs to be something to sustain a fan base. Winning competitions brings in money.

If the IRFU were that ruthless their best strategy would be to pare back the other provinces aggressively and concentrate on Leinster. The marginal savings from weakening the Leinster squad over the last few years have been far outweighed by the reduced competitiveness at the top European level.

In either case the maths has changed with the top SA clubs. We need multiple provinces to perform so SA fans embrace the competition. There’s a big difference between Irish provincial buy in and Welsh regional indifference.

[ronk]

Ruddock, Doris, vDF with Leavy sub.

With Deegan, Conan and Connors out it’s really only Murphy and Penny not getting action.

Conan and Connors are fit.

So four excellent backrows aren’t getting game time.

Ruddock is injured and 6-2 splits are still happening. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Munster are putting out a strong backrow with no first choice players. It’s not unique to us.

[lummix]

I think it obvious that back rows need to move for the benefit of irish rugby in general. If you are being objective it'd make sense for penny and deegan to be sent to connacht and conan and connors to ulster.
Maybe one of the other provinces could send us a winger(conway maybe) or second row (thornbury)

[mildlyinterested]

[ronk]

I think it obvious that back rows need to move for the benefit of irish rugby in general. If you are being objective it'd make sense for penny and deegan to be sent to connacht and conan and connors to ulster.
Maybe one of the other provinces could send us a winger(conway maybe) or second row (thornbury)

4 backrows leaving. Leinster played 5 tonight. Wouldn’t manage for a season with 5. That wouldn’t fit any definition of objective.

[lummix]

It'd still leave us with

6 ruddock murphy baird sorka
7 leavy jvf
8 Dorris

I wouldn't be a fan of it from a leinster perspective but from an irish rugby pov itd make sense. You could have starting backrows at each of the provinces of the below. Create great options for the international team moving forward.

Leinster. Connacht. Ulster. Munster
6 ruddock. Boyle. Murphy. Coombes
7 leavy. Penny. Connors. POM
8 dorris. Deegan. Conan. Stander
20 jvf. Oliver. Reidy. O'donoghue

[Keith]

It'd still leave us with

6 ruddock murphy baird sorka
7 leavy jvf
8 Dorris

I wouldn't be a fan of it from a leinster perspective but from an irish rugby pov itd make sense. You could have starting backrows at each of the provinces of. Create great options for the international team moving forward.

Leinster. Connacht. Ulster. Munster
6 ruddock. Boyle. Murphy. Coombes
7 leavy. Penny. Connors. POM
8 dorris. Deegan. Conan. Stander
20 jvf. Oliver. Reidy. O'donoghue

Christ, I presumed you were joking earlier...

[lummix]

Ok maybe 1 too many moving but if anyone thinks nucifora is going to leave deegan as 3rd choice 8 and connors as 3rd and penny as 4th choice openside long term they are very much mistaken

[Keith]

Ok maybe 1 too many moving but if anyone thinks nucifora is going to leave deegan as 3rd choice 8 and connors as 3rd and penny as 4th choice openside long term they are very much mistaken

Injuries happen. Connors was nowhere last season and is now a full international. What about players like Masterson, the two Rea's, McCann etc. When the Leinster lads get moved do the IRFU just throw these guys aside? Seems unfair.

[hugonaut]

Looking injury stricken at the moment.

As of tonight, we have 11 injured backs in our senior squad [Sexton, Harry Byrne, Frawley, all three O'Briens, Adam Byrne, Ringer, Locko, Larmour and Lowe]. Not sure what the story is with Cian Kelleher, haven't seen him in recent training pics.

[hugonaut]

1. By my count, Adam Byrne has now been out 21/22 weeks on what was supposed to be an "up to 12 week" layoff [source: https://www.irishrugby.ie/2020/08/03/le ... dam-byrne/ ]. It has been 53 weeks since his last game of rugby [28 Dec 2019 @ Munster].

2. Jordan Larmour has been out 10/11 weeks of an estimated 16 week layoff [source: https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/ ... -1.4385011 ]. He is back running, as seen in last week's training photos.

3. Tommy O'Brien has been out 7/8 weeks of an estimated 6-8 week layoff [source: https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/injury-upd ... oloughlin/ ]. He should be due to return within the coming weeks and would be a very valuable addition.

4. Conor O'Brien is out for the season with an ACL tear [source: https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/cullen-iss ... ry-update/ ]. Most unfortunate, following his lengthy hamstring injury. He has only played 12 minutes of rugby more than Adam Byrne in the last year ... i.e. 12 minutes [source: https://www.leinsterrugby.ie/player?PlayGuid=CO804039 ].

Even moreso than usual, Leinster are being vague with regards to which players are available for selection, what injuries players have and how long they are likely to be out of contention. For example, Cian Kelleher and Ross Byrne were selected for the postponed Munster game [source: https://twitter.com/MichaelC_RTE/status ... 80/photo/1 ] but neither seem to have been training last week going from the Sportsfile pics [source: https://www.sportsfile.com/more-images/2012098/ ], and neither played last night.

Last night's selection of the two Academy Year 1 players in the back three looks to have been a big gamble that backfired, but maybe Kelleher and Silvester [who featured in October and November] weren't available for selection, and Smith and O'Reilly were the only players available? I don't have an inside line here, it is just speculation. I wasn't the only one who remarked on what an odd selection it was.

[cormac]

Given the news during the week you don't exactly have to be Hercule Poirot to piece together the clues as to why some players didn't feature yesterday.

[joooooe]

No Irish provinces will be signing players from outside the system unless they are bargain basement and/or can potentially play for Ireland. Pro rugby has lost almost all its revenue. We probably could do with a hooker and maybe a 9 but unless fans are coming back soon we are more likely to see more semi-pro players (see Greg McGrath last night) than the laughable idea of signing a big money NIQ. Unless they're willing to play for free it's not going to happen.

It may not be "fair" as we will likely have zero NIQs but the IRFU (who pay all pro players in Ireland) are going broke fast and in crisis management mode. As a result, everything is about the bottom line.

People are discussing the "fairness" of Leinster players (particularly backrows) moving to other provinces. The reality is that some players will be given a choice in the coming months:
a) move province,
b) take your chances abroad (where nearly all clubs are in the same boat),
c) stay at Leinster and play for free/semi-pro, or
d) retire.

In that context, signing expensive players and/or holding on to multiple expensive players in the same position is simply not going to happen.

It's not fair, but it is reality.

[curates_egg]

Given the news during the week you don't exactly have to be Hercule Poirot to piece together the clues as to why some players didn't feature yesterday.

Yes, it would seem that backs are more prone to coronavirus than forwards - a new high risk group

Joking aside, I hope none of them is seriously ill and that this is our only outbreak.

Some of the French clubs had a big wave of infections, which totally compromised them for a four week period, but was arguably less disruptive than a drip-drip of individual infections and close contact quarantines. They got games postponed and didn't have to play many games with weakened squads. The backline that finished for us on Saturday wouldn't look out of place in the B&I.

[mildlyinterested]

LH Prop
Cian Healy(33/Belvedere/Clontarf)
Ed Byrne(27/Clongowes/UCD)
Peter Dooley(26/Birr RFC/Lansdowne)

Michael Milne(21/Birr RFC-Roscrea/UCD)
Marcus Hanan(20/Clane RFC/Old Belvedere)
Jack Boyle(18/St. Michaels/UCD)

TH Prop
Michael Bent(34)
Tadhg Furlong(27/New Ross RFC/Clontarf) - injured
Andrew Porter(24/St. Andrews/UCD)
Vakh Abdaladze(24/Coolmine RFC/Clontarf) - injured

Tom Clarkson(20/Blackrock/DUFC)
Greg McGrath(23/Wexford RFC/Lansdowne)
Tom Connolly(21/Galwegians RFC/DUFC)

Hooker
Sean Cronin(34)
James Tracy(29/Newbridge/UCD)
Ronan Kelleher(22/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
Dan Sheehan(21/Clongowes/Lansdowne)

John McKee(20/Campbell/Old Belvedere) - injured
Lee Barron(19/St. Michaels/DUFC)

Lock
Scott Fardy(36)
Devin Toner(34/Castleknock/Lansdowne)
Ross Molony(26/St. Michaels/UCD) -
James Ryan(24/St. Michaels/UCD)
Jack Dunne(22/St. Michaels/DUFC)
Ryan Baird(21/St. Michaels/DUFC)

Charlie Ryan(21/Blackrock/UCD) - injured
Brian Deeny(20/Wexford RFC/Clontarf) - injured
Joe McCarthy(19/Blackrock/DUFC)
Mark Morrissey(18/Blackrock/UCD)

Backrow
Rhys Ruddock(30/Exile/St. Marys)
Jack Conan(28/St. Gerards/Old Belvedere)
Josh Van Der Flier(27/Wesley/UCD)
Dan Leavy(26/St. Michaels/UCD)
Josh Murphy(25/St. Michaels/UCD)
Will Connors(24/Clongowes/UCD)
Max Deegan(23/St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - injured
Caelan Doris(22/Blackrock/DUFC)
Scott Penny(21/St. Michaels/UCD) - injured

Martin Moloney(21/Athy RFC/Old Belvedere)
Sean O'Brien(20/Blackrock/UCD)
Alex Soroka(19/Belvedere/Clontarf)
Mark Hernan(20/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
Will Hickey(19/St. Michaels/UCD)

Scrumhalf
Jamie Gibson Park(28)
Luke McGrath(27/St. Michaels/UCD)
Rowan Osborne(24/Clongowes/DUFC)
Hugh O'Sullivan(22/Belvedere/Clontarf)

Paddy Patterson(22/Blackrock/UCD)
Cormac Foley(20/St. Gerards/Lansdowne)

Outhalf
Jonathan Sexton(35/St. Marys/St. Marys)
Ross Byrne(25/St. Michaels/UCD)
Ciaran Frawley(23/Skerries RFC/UCD) - injured
Harry Byrne(21/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)

David Hawkshaw(21/Belvedere/Clontarf)
Tim Corkery(19/Kilkenny RFC/UCD)
Charlie Tector(18/Kilkenny/Lansdowne)

Centre
Robbie Henshaw(27)
Rory O'Loughlin(26/St. Michaels/UCD) - injured
Garry Ringrose(25/Blackrock/UCD) - injured
Conor O'Brien(24/Mullingar RFC/Clontarf) - injured
Tommy O'Brien(22/Blackrock/UCD - injured

Liam Turner(21/Blackrock/DUFC) - Academy Yr 2
Jamie Osborne(19/Naas/Naas RFC)
Marcus Kiely(19/Newbridge/Naas RFC)
Karl Martin(18/Boyne RFC/Old Belvedere)

Back Three
Dave Kearney(31/Clongowes/Lansdowne)
James Lowe(28) - injured
Adam Byrne(26/Naas RFC/UCD) - injured
Cian Kelleher(26/St. Michaels/Lansdowne)
Hugo Keenan(24/Blackrock/UCD)
Jimmy O'Brien(24/Newbridge/UCD)
Jordan Larmour(23/St. Andrews/St. Marys)

Michael Silvester(22/Clongowes/DUFC) - injured
Aaron O'Sullivan(21/Exile/Blackrock) - injured
Andrew Smith(20/St. Michaels/Clontarf)
Niall Comerford(20/Blackrock/UCD)
Max O'Reilly(20/St. Gerards/DUFC)
Chris Cosgrave(19/St. Michaels/UCD)
Shane Mallon(18/Longford RFC-Roscrea/UCD)

[mildlyinterested]

Confirmed out of contract:
Cian Healy(33/Belvedere/Clontarf) - central contract until 2021
Michael Bent(35) - signed contract in 2020
Tadhg Furlong(28/New Ross RFC/Clontarf) - central contract until 2021
Sean Cronin(35) - signed contract in 2020
Scott Fardy(37) - signed 1 yr contract in 2020
Devin Toner(35/Castleknock/Lansdowne) - signed 1 yr contract in 2020
Jonathan Sexton(36/St. Marys/St. Marys) - central contract until 2021

Fardy is gone, sounds like Cronin may follow him. Hopefully Bent/Toner stay around for another season, but unclear if they will. Sexton looks committed to playing on, you'd assume Healy will too, probably coming off a central deal. Finally Furlong will be in demand despite injury, but IRFU will surely ensure he doesn't leave.

Likely out of contract:
Ronan Kelleher(23/St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2019
Jack Conan(29/St. Gerards/Old Belvedere) - signed contract in 2019
Max Deegan(24/St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2019
Scott Penny(21/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2019
Jamie Gibson Park(29) - signed contract in 2019
Luke McGrath(28/St. Michaels/UCD) - signed contract in 2019
Hugh O'Sullivan(23/Belvedere/Clontarf) - signed contract in 2019
Ciaran Frawley(23/Skerries RFC/UCD) - signed contract in 2019
Conor O'Brien(25/Mullingar RFC/Clontarf) - signed contract in 2019
Jimmy O'Brien(24/Newbridge/UCD) - signed contract in 2019
Dave Kearney(32/Clongowes/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2019
Cian Kelleher(27/St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2019
Hugo Keenan(25/Blackrock/UCD) - signed contract in 2019

I'm sure Leinster would look to retain all the player listed, will they is another question entirely.. you'd wonder if someone like Kearney might try to cash in on his current form abroad given he is on the outside looking in for ireland. Deegan looked primed to be lured elsewhere but given his injury the incentive to leave may have lessened, there is talk around Penny a lot and it wouldn't be a huge shock if he left given where he sits on the depth chart, Conan has turned down multiple offers to move in the past but maybe falling behind Doris will finally push him to look elsewhere. Can't see the Kellehers leaving or either scrumhalf. Maybe HOS gets an offer and takes the opportunity for more gametime. Frawley could be in demand elsewhere but you'd hope Leinster will be able to keep hold of him. COB is injured so will probably get a year extension to get healthy and try re-establish himself in the squad next season. JOB and Keenan have become key players in the Leinster squad and I can't see either leaving.

Possibly out of contract:
Vakh Abdaladze(25/Coolmine RFC/Clontarf) - signed contract in 2020
Greg McGrath(23/Wexford RFC/Lansdowne) - trial
Dan Sheehan(22/Clongowes/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2020
Jack Dunne(22/St. Michaels/DUFC) - signed contract in 2020
Ryan Baird(21/St. Michaels/DUFC) - signed contract in 2020
Rowan Osborne(24/Clongowes/DUFC) - signed contract in 2020
Harry Byrne(21/St. Michaels/Lansdowne) - signed contract in 2020
Tommy O'Brien(22/Blackrock/UCD) - signed contract in 2020
Adam Byrne(27/Naas RFC/UCD) - signed contract in 2020

I'd imagine it's unlikely that Dunne, Baird, Byrne, TOB and Sheehan signed 1 year deals out of the academy but it is possible so i've listed them here as possible out of contract, if any of them are you'd assume they'd all be retained. Osborne is likely out of contract along with the rest of the scrumhalf group, hard to know if he will be retained they seem to rate him over Patterson in the academy. Vakh and AB probably need to return healthy and prove themselves with whatever is left of this season, doesn't look great for Byrne though. Finally Greg McGrath will be trying to earn a contract for next season over the next few months.

Academy
Michael Milne(22/Birr RFC-Roscrea/UCD)
Tom Clarkson(21/Blackrock/DUFC)
Charlie Ryan(22/Blackrock/UCD)
Paddy Patterson(22/Blackrock/UCD)
David Hawkshaw(22/Belvedere/Clontarf)
Michael Silvester(23/Clongowes/DUFC)
Aaron O'Sullivan(21/Exile/Blackrock)

I'd expect Milne and Hawkshaw to move to dev contracts, probably Silvester and O'Sullivan too. Patterson looks under pressure to get a contract for next season. Finally Tom Clarkson looks likely to move into the senior squad, while Charlie Ryan may push for early graduation also.. depending on his health status for the remainder of the season.

[RoboProp]

Please don't start another conversation about school. PLEASE.

I had a friend was a big baseball player back in high school. He could throw that speedball by you, make you look like a fool boy
Saw him the other night at this roadside bar I was walking in, he was walking out, we went back inside sat down had a few drinks
But all he kept talking about was....

[munster#1]

Given the current size of the Leinster squad a reduction seems inevitable,
In addition, given how successful your academy is at developing players, you would expect a number of graduates to move to senior contracts.

What players do you believe will be let go at the end of this season?

Alternatively, do you believe that Leinster will retain such a large squad, and only let go a small number of players?

[Serb]

The squad isn’t that big - only one player more than Munster in the senior squad. 45 players is a pretty standard size. Seems larger because of heavy academy involvement. We have 5 players in year 3 of the academy so they’ll be in line for promotions / the chop.

Personally I think only backrow is a position where regrettable departures are inevitable (Penny, Deegan and/or Conan).

Other spots will be opened up by retirements (Fardy, maybe Cronin, Bent, Toner are also candidates), squad players moving on (no obvious candidates here, maybe someone like Adam Byrne) or academy players who have been involved with the senior team not getting contracts.